COMMENTS:
I agree with every McEnroot says, apart from his comments about economics. Frequently, one's economic bests interests are served by screwing others over - for instace, burglary, extortion or asset-stripping.
Thank you oh great one for stooping down to our level just to divulge your semantic mastery of your eponymous mother tongue,we are truly humbled.BARF!... TA once again...
I believe humans are altruists by nature. The main motivation behind anything we do is for ourself. For example, a child who does chores around the house does it for rewards (allowance, praise treats etc.) not because they genuinely desire to do so. Those who give to charity may appear to do it because they care for others, but may actually be doing it for themselves (want to build a better image of themselves, want to feel good about themselves, want to do what God wants so they can go to heaven). As SomeGuy said, people reach their economic interests by screwing other people over. As a general statement, we are motivated by our own self interest in all circumstances. No matter what a person does, their main intention is to benefit themselves.
Actually I just thought of a way that kind of contradicts my previous comment. Procrastination- how could that show egoism? We do it, even though we are screwing ourselves over.
Hey hey hey! This is like a deja vu! ;)
Are humans altruist or egoist by nature? Let me tell you what I think.
Humans are egocentrical by nature. It means that all we see, we see it from a subjective point of view, since to have an objective point of view we would have to see ourselves from outside, and that's not possible.
Everything we see revolves around us, right? Even when we see a car accident, we see it from our point of view, and we pay particular attention to how could it affect us.
Humans are self-centered by nature. And therefore I believe tey hve a natural tendence towards egoism. Even inconsciently, as you mentionned, we always tend to satisfy ourselves even through apparently altruist acions.
But does that mean humans can't be altruist? I don't know. When you do something apparently unselfish to gain "moral benefit", it's because of the morality you have. But where does that morality come from? Is it the result of the need of protection from others, or is it some sort of sense of justice that comes from the realization that we're all smilar and we all have the same feelings?
I guess I'm not giving any answer here, but only asking you more questions, but it's all about sharing ideas, neh?
by Smat on Thu Feb 19, 04 8:55am
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ApplePie, dude, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying when you see a car accident you shouldn't care about the people inside the car or whatsoever. Let me explain it again. I believe that humans are self-centered by nature. It actually seems really obvious to me, I mean, let me show it to you with a simple example : look at some random people. Now, do you know what they're feeling? No. Yes, you can try to imagine, and maybe your imagination can make you have a pretty accurate idea of what they're feeling, but it would all be your imagination. The only feelings you can know for sure are yours, right?
Now look at a random object. What do you see? You see your own perception of that object. We've discussed this already, haven't we?
That's what I mean. Every perception you get is subjective. And everything you see, you see it from a self-centered point of view. See what I mean? It's not "good", it's not "evil", it's just a part of human nature. You can't help it. Damn, to avoid it you would have to place your conscience outside yourself, which *ahem* I don't think is possible, but even if it was, it would be an attempt to fight natural self-centeredness. I don't even know if that's a word, but yeah, hopefully you know what I mean.
So yeah, humans are naturally self-centered. This obviously induces you to act selfishly. Now, I'm not even saying humans can't be unselfish, although you know I tend to think that way. All I'm saying is that there is a natural tendency born from an egocentrical vision of the world.
Now, I'm not saying I've never done anything apparently altruist. What I'm saying is that, even it appeared to be unselfish to me, I can't be sure about my sub-conscient, and that's the quest for moral satisfaction I was talking about. Not real, conscient egoism.
And no, altruism doesn't exist in case there is a selfish purpose, but what I'm saying is that in the conception of morals there might be some unselfishness. Please don't get me wrong. I can't help being confusing, but that is due to my very messed up mind. I hope I was clearer this time. But hey, in case you think I wasn't, let me know, and I'll try to explain it again.
by Smat on Thu Feb 19, 04 9:01pm
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oopsss! i meant to say egoists not altruists lol
lol thanks for catching that one Anonymous
good points once again Smat
Hey there again Apple_Pie, since you're talking directly to me, I'll answer your comment even if it's not my ballot. Hope you don't mind, Queen.
Apple_Pie, I'm sorry if I sounded like I was lecturing you, I was just trying to be as clear as possible. And I'm also glad you know what a tautology is. However, I hope you're able to differenciate "egocentrism" from "egoism", right? Egocentrism comes from "ego" (I) and "centrum" (center). It means self-centeredness. Since you asked me not to, I won't explain it again, but I just wanted to make sure you saw the difference.
And don't try to deny I'm alive. I know that I exist, and I suspect I'm alive (beats me why, heh). And I don't know if there's a god or not. I honestly don't think there's one, but that's just me. And yeah, I already said our points of view were totally different, and, since none of us was capable of proving the other one wrong, there was no point discussing religion. No need to get sick just because I think differently than you do. Heh.
And I ask other people's opinions because I really wanna know what they think. I'm selfish like that. And, who knows? Maybe they're selfish enough to feel some kind of moral retribution by trying to save my lost soul, or just gain some ego-satisfaction by saying what they think in public. Who knows?
Oh well, that last part was just ment to piss you off, I'm sorry, I'm childish like that. Anyways, I don't try to "correct" the comments I get. I couldn't, in the first place, since I don't own the truth, just my opinions. I answer them, pointing out what I think about what they say. I believe discussions can be rather enlightening. Don't you?
And I don't believe what I say is the absolute truth. I just speak my opinion. I'm sorry if I sounded like I owned all the absolute knowledge in this world, because I certainly, certainly don't. For example, I would also like to know what people think about humans being naturally altruist or egoist. I'm waiting to see the results in this poll. By the way, nice ballot, Queen. :)
by Smat on Fri Feb 20, 04 7:16pm
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I don't mind you commenting at all Smat. I enjoy a good, deep conversation.
Most good deeds are done by people during the ordinary course of their day without ensuring the recipient knows their name.
All human behavior is the result of over a million years of evoultion. Each behavior is geared for some survival aspect, whether it be for the group or the individual, mostly favoring helping behavior in groups of similar genetic lineage, thus promoting a self serving and "altruistic" i.e. group serving nature.
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