COMMENTS:
WATCH OUT FOR MAD CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!
(reposted from internet sources)
PARANOID FANTASIES ABOUT SEPT 11
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will be at least one, usually several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it.
"Mahatma Ghandi’s ghost throttled Hendrix"
"Saddam Hussein was breeding an army of genetically modified Yeti".
"Hitler was half Werewolf"
"Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc.
The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So it's hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales.
And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unaware by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able to.
Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - which remains uninvestigated, the complicit behaviour of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours , crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more stupid stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus it has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.
It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed.
Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)logical conclusions.
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives ,box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist.....
To be continued
I'll say to you what I said to Tank_Girl:
You call those who don't agree with you psycopaths. You call them gullible "sheeple." You post an article that is as biased as biased can get, renaming even those who are "on the fence" when it comes to 9/11 as "crackpots."
Your facts are compelling. Your story is plausible. Your treatment of other human beings' beliefs is appalling.
Let us remember the best of Forest Gump's observations: "Mama said life is like a bowl of chocolates. You never know what you're going to get."
That's your opinion himself, check out the latest ballot by the bulbless searchlight and the mocking comments thereafter, I bet you didn't accuse him of the same, so afraid of the truth is he that he has even blocked me from commenting or making choices on his ballot.
What I said wasn't complete, sorry. In what I *actually* said to Tank_Girl, I said that those who label you as "tin-foil hats" are no better. They are just as rude and imposing. But that doesn't remove the fact that whoever authored that article is getting nowhere by bludgeoning others into the ground. This "learning" thing works both ways. Both the teacher and the student must be willing and patient.
Fair point, I agree.
I dont believe anything without question. I just listen to people who were there or who know what they are talking about. I also employ logical reasoning and spend time considering other possibilities. At the end of all this open minded research the most reasonable conclusion based on all the available facts is that most of the official version of events concerning 9/11 is true. People keep quoting sources of evidence to you Ken and you choose to ignore them. There is not a shred of actual evidence backing up the 9/11 conspiracy theories. There is to quote Lionel Hutz "lots of hearsay and speculation, those are kinds of evidence, arent they?". You ask for facts and when you get them you just filter them out. People point out the obvious flaws in your own ideas and you use tortuous logic to avoid the questions entirely. 9/11 is a conspiracy without any conspirators. Not one anywhere. It was the crime of the century and NOBODY did it. After five years not one person has testified that they planted or loaded bombs or that they saw anyone do the same. Like I said. You have no evidence. Just opinion, hearsay and speculation.
"I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts."
- Abraham Lincoln
"...You have no evidence. Just opinion, hearsay and speculation."
by Searchlight
Ha ha ha! - see what I mean folks, the irony the irony, brazenly accusing me of the very thing he practises all over the website, you are just afraid to confront the evidence - which is overwhelming.
“Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the
leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a
simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a
fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship.
Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of
the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are
being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and
for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every
country.”
--- Hermann Goering, Hitler’s Reich Marshall and chief conspirator in the Reichstag fire, WW2's 9/11 at the Nuremberg
Trials after World War II.
(continued from above)
...For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes.
If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists.
But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist.
With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious.
However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.
"Excuse me sir, why do you have a box cutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"
"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."
"Very strange", thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or box cutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane?
But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will point to the fact that the hijackers passports were allegedly found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again.
"Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?"
"You numbskull ! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on…
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unravelling of this marvellously stupid story.
"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "
The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...
(to be continued)
Ken what do you exactly think happened on 9/11?Stop reposting that article from the internet and explain yourself clearly.
Please answer these following questions.1)Who was behind 9/11? Did arab terrorist take over the four flights or were those flights remote controll airplanes that crashed into the T.T?3)Was the Pentagon hit by a missle or by a plane?4)Were the T.T brought down by the planes that hit them and fire or by a C.D and thermite?
I heard the jews did it.
Post your ballot, and I'll teach you all about it there okay?
Ask me those questions on the ballot you plan to write up this week, you should know by now what my findings are on the matter as I've posted them all over this website - so your shill playing dumb doesn't wash here, so I'm not going to waste my time reiterating it.
Post your ballot and ask me there.
I look forward to it. (o:
^^^That's for the corrupt user - sorry user corrupt - by the way folks (o:
I'm not trying to play dumb Ken I just want to make sure that my ballot accurately portrays what you believe so you can't say that I'm making a false argument.Since you refuse to clearify your position I'm going to say that you believe 9/11 was ordered by Bush,the planes that flew into the T.Ts were remote controlled and not real flights,the T.Ts were brought down by C.D and the Pentagon was hit by a missle.Are those assumptions fair?
"ARE OFFICIAL CONSPIRACY THEORISTS JUST LIKE FORREST GUMP?"
yes, you are.
** karma **
{You ask for facts and when you get them you just filter them out.
by Searchlight on Sun Aug 27, 06 2:35pm}
SOUNDS EXACTLY LIKE YOU ARE DESCRIBING YOURSELF!
You ignore these facts all the time;
It is a FACT that it's impossible to make cellphone calls from passenger planes flying at cruising altitude six miles up and flying at over 450mph without an onboard cellular basestation (technology which wasn't available prior to 2004 and is still in testing stage), and it's a FACT that cellphone calls from a vehicle moving at over 450mph (even if successfully make the handshake when flying at low altitude) will only last a few seconds since there is no time for the hand-off; the call will ALWAYS drop out in just a few seconds - minutes long cellphone calls are IMPOSSIBLE.
It's a FACT before and after Sept 11 2001 that no steel-framed hi-rise or tower-style buildings have ever collapsed straightdown at close to freefall speed into their own footprint - except with controlled demolitions, and that it is IMPOSSIBLE without a controlled demolition according to the laws of PHYSICS.
It's a fact that NOBODY has ever successfully simulated the collapses of WTC 1, 2, & 7 without considering controlled demolition, and that means NOBODY. Not NIST, not, NOVA, Dr Eagar, FEMA, MIT, Bazant & Zhou, nor Dr Frank Green, nor anyone else. NOBODY has succeeded; those who have claimed to have done so, have ALWAYS been proven to be LIARS when their mathematical formula were checked.
It's a FACT, that there was NO INFERNO in either of the WTC twin towers. The temperatures of the fires never went above 360C, and apparently were around 250C, which is well below the 550C at which steel only barely begins to lose it's elasticity. Glass melts at 700C - There are no reports of melting glass at the towers, and the glass in the storeys above the fire didn't seem to break so the temperature was clearly way below 700C. Of the more than 170 areas examined on 16 perimeter column panels, only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250ºC - Only two core column specimens had sufficient paint remaining to make such an analysis, and their temperatures did not reach 250 ºC. Using metallographic analysis, NIST determined that there was no evidence that any of the samples had reached temperatures above 600 ºC. Kevin Ryan of UL had cited a similar figure (250C).
It's a FACT that there were hundeds of witnesses to explosions at the WTC buildings, and that their claims are supported by video evidence showing lines of explosions blowing out the floors before the falling debris could reach those floors, and there's seismic data showing impossibly short tremors revealing the use of explosives in those controlled demolitions.
now maybe you can explain how something that is not true can be a fact? or maybe there's some difference between a fact and a FACT? perhaps one is truth, and the other is truthiness?
^^^See what I mean folks? - LovelyNice presents facts while the likes of neothe1, searchlight and corrupt etc... respond with at best - as in this case -generalisations and ambiguous gobbledygook, or at worse personal insults and attacks which they'll later disingenuously claim were just 'jokes'.
All because they don't have the balls or moral backbone to confront the overwhelming, irrefutable and undeniable evidence.
(continued from above)
....This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The "improbability drive", in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to suggest it, and then speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to try to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world).
There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct.
Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.
Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the crew being able to alert Air Traffic Control (ATC ) is almost impossible. The crew needs only to punch in a four digit code to alert ATC to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the crude method of threatening people with box cutters and knives, shooting and stabbing passengers to try to lure the crew out of the cockpit and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously). And yet, miraculously they were able to take control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code.
Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive....
(to be continued)
neothe1, just so you know, here's my refutation of your posting about Blanchard's false debunking.
Blanchard goes through 9 dubiously concocted assertions in favor of demolition, and attempts to refute them. He doesn't address any of the hard issues, such as the complete pulverization of the concrete, or the near freefall collapse times.
The most stupid claims written by Blanchard;
Quote "We do not know why exactly how or why WT7 fell when it did, and we decline to
hypothesize here."
Well that didn't stop Mr Blanchard from "hypothesizing" about the miles of wires and explosives required to rig WT1 and WT2 within 45 minutes after the first plane impact did it? Again we see the pathetic statements about miles and miles of wires and the 45 minutes to prepare the demolition after the first plane struck. Ignoring that there were weeks to prepare and the suspicious powerdowns (that many have mentioned already), and that would be no need for wires in this modern age of remote controlled bombs and detonators.
- The claim that those aren't demolition squibs shooting from the towers 10, 20, 30 floors below the demolition wave, those are pockets of air -- yeah, right, pockets of air that are symmetrical, emerging from the center of the floor, and sometimes 30 floors away from the collapse... come on.
- Those weren't explosions witnesses heard; those were just loud noises - 911 Eyewitness captures the pre-collapse explosions, and the way they get closer together just prior to the collapse - and some eyewitnesses were tossed around by these explosions - Blanchard is blowing smoke
- No evidence of thermite being used - you mean, when Dr. Jones found the chemical signature of thermite, that doesn't count as evidence?
The most suspect criticism is the claim that nobody who removed steel saw any molten metal, and that if there were molten metal it would jam the machinery. The presence of molten metal is confirmed by satellite thermal imagery of Ground Zero, and by the photographic and video evidence. If Blanchard didn't talk to anyone who was near these pools of molten metal, that's his problem. The satellite imagery confirms it!
Finally an attack on Alex Jones and Steve Jones and in the same sentence a reference to Wile E. Coyote and his creator Chuck Jones, a clever use of prose. Written no doubt by the CIA mocking birds.
This Wile E. Coyote/Road Runner theme seems to be running through quite a few of these recent neo-con shill "hit pieces", is this a new trend?? Look at the recent publication by Morgan 'No Planes' Reynolds (a "hit piece" on Dr Steve Jones), where the road runner was seen silhouetted on one of the Twin Towers.
Maybe this particular DoD / CIA / FBI operation is called operation "Road Runner".
By the way, there's an interesting history of "scientists" supporting quack theories in order to retain their position in society. See, for instance, Eugenics.
"When the excitement of the blast is over, a large, billowing cloud of dust is one of the most identifiable characteristics of a successful project."
implosion world . c o m / dyk5 . h t m l
I'm still going through it, but I'm sure that I'll find more problems in his claims.
Well I guess I asked for this. Touche Ken! Touche!
amazing how many words you can use to say absolutely nothing.
We cant say these men brought us to our knees. These men brought the soviet union to there knees but not us. I do agree that there is some misleaded information about 9/11 but i dont think bush was behind it. Also there is really nothin we as americans can do now. We have already invaded them and its all said and done. Its all said and done and now we are in there countries killing them like nothing. A lot of people have said we are loosing this war and it is questionable becuase we really havent accomplished anything over there. Even the troops in Iraq are saying everything the u.s is doing isnt working. But we surely wont loose this war and wont be tooken down by terrorists like the russians. We are much to powerful and have another million and a half troops to send over there with a lot more weapons back in the u.s.
Now for the war i do believe that Europe could have gave us a hand and backed us on this. They are recieving terrorists attacks and go on like it never happened. The u.s might not be able to fight this war alone but the government is to stuck up to think other wise. Have you noticed almost every war america has fought involved another country? We fought vietnam alone and look at how it turned out. Im just saying that more countries should have been involved in helping us and i can guarentee that when america is almost done with the war europe will get involved so they can have some say in fighting terrorism. Now for Britain there over there but there not really fighting. There more of watching over bases while the u.s is taking the deaths. But i do thank the brits for giving a helping hand out there unlike other europian countries.
oh look, it's lie number 1
neothe1, your comments add nothing of importance to this ballot. Either start posting civilly or leave, please.
(Continued from above)
...So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms", it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will for this dreadful deed.
Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behaviour - and then got up at 5am the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find...
To be continued (o:
** karma **
repost:
oh this should be fun. lie number one vs lie number 2, while the truth remains buried.
"misleaded information about 9/11 but i dont think bush was behind it.
by US_MarineCorp69 on Mon Aug 28, 06 1:19pm"
He probably wasn't in the full knowledge of what was going on, but it's highly doubtful that it was Arabs who packed WTC 7, and WTC 1+2 with demolition charges to bring those buildings down in their very recognisable controlled demolitions, or faked the cellphone calls, and all the other things that would require USA govt involvement.
They had weeks to prepare, and there were powerdowns, and the removal one day of the bomb sniffer dogs.
"Its all said and done and now we are in there countries killing them like nothing
by US_MarineCorp69 on Mon Aug 28, 06 1:19pm"
You think that invading other countries on trumped up excuses based on lies and slaughtering civilians in huge numbers as "collateral damage" is a good thing?! Does it get your rocks off, you sick bastard?
I don't think that's what he meant... looks to me like he meant that we have no reason to be invading "there countries."
(continued from above)
...It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skilfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi- believable.
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that for a plane to instantly blow itself up into nothing like that, it would have to be packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash...
(to be continued)
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(continued from above)
....Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vaporising the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along.
There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load!
Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically kerosene, and usually burns at about 400c has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vaporizing 70 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 23 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about four times that of the normal combustion temperature of kerosene. And forget about the boiling point of these metals, which is what would be required to vaporize a plane. And then there's about 47 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of kerosene...
(to be continued)
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