COMMENTS:
Oh, and if you can't add a choice to the above, that's because the CIA is trying to silence you.
Voted : They do it for some alterior reason (not necessarily one that I specifically mentioned above)
Most of those that promote the conspiracy (bush did it) theory are not stupid enough to believe it, however it is a covenient excuse for them to express their hate of America, Bush, the west, infidels and jews. The same people behind the conspiracy theory garbage pop up (to no surprise) on every ballot the revolves around those topics.
{Oh, and if you can't add a choice to the above, that's because the CIA is trying to silence you.
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 4:46pm}
No, it's because you're acting like a troll
I don't believe that the "Arabs Did It" conspiracy theorists on this site actually believe what they say. They ignore all evidence which proves them wrong, show a stubborn determination in promote the Official 9/11 Lies despite every fact which proves it the slies to be just that - LIES.
However, we all know that shills are being paid to post on meesage boards to promote the Official Lies.
HERE'S AN ARTICLE ABOUT GOVERNMENT SHILLS PAID TO POST ON MESSAGE BOARDS
information clearinghouse . info / article 12060 . htm
INTENTIONALLY PLANTED LIES IN THE NEWS MEDIA
QUOTE =
Rumsfeld confirms his dedication to propaganda by defending the bogus stories that were printed in Iraqi newspapers by Pentagon contractors. (We) “sought non-traditional means to provide accurate information to the Iraqi people in the face of an aggressive campaign of disinformation….This has been deemed inappropriate—for examples the allegations of ‘buying news’”
EMPLOYING SHILLS TOPOST ON MESSAGE BOARDS
QUOTE =
The War Department is planning to insert itself into every area of the Internet from blogs to chat rooms, from leftist web sites to editorial commentary. Their rapid response team will be on hair-trigger alert to dispute any tidbit of information that challenges the official storyline
And do a google search on this story;
"NIST shill outs himself on mainstream physics board"
Looks like somebody is having a hissy at Ken from Dublin. 
(herzie ballot category: obtuse personal attack on another B&W user)
Lovelynice
I don't think the ones on this site actually believe it. There are some that probably do, but the ones that genuinely feel there was a conspiracy are keeping their mouths shut.
Here's why: let's say there was a conspiracy, a bunch of rich white men got together and deliberately plotted the deaths of thousands of innocent americans in the largest single attack on US soil in the past century for the sake of stealing some oil. Alright, so they carry it out with such success that they convince 99% of people that a plane hit it, even though it was controlled explosives and a missle, they believe this despite witnessing it. Clearly these conspirators are highly skilled, they're ruthless, don't care about killing innocent people and are very well connected. If you trully believed all these things, would you go spouting off all their secrets in a way that could be easily tracked back to you? Why would they be willing to kill thousands to steal oil, but not kill one more to keep the secret? By their own reasoning they are proved either completely insane and suicidal (in which case they should be ignored) or that they don't actually believe it themselves (in which case they should be ignored).
There is no logical reason why anyone should believe someone openly spouting off this conspiracy.
{ Here's why: let's say there was a conspiracy, a bunch of rich white men got together and deliberately plotted the deaths of thousands of innocent americans in the largest single attack on US soil in the past century for the sake of stealing some oil.
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 5:24pm}
Of course it wasn't just for oil. It was for POWER. That's always more valuable. Military and political power, both in the USA and in the Middle East.
Why be so deliberately obtuse, Herzog?
{There is no logical reason why anyone
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 5:24pm}
Science is a pretty good reason. Real life is a pretty good reason.
Cellphones still can't make successful calls from passenger planes flying six miles up at over 450mph without an onboard cellular basestation (technology which didn't exist before 2004).
Fake cellphone calls = the USA government LIED.
Just like they LIED about the WMDs in Iraq.
And PHYSICS proves the WTC collapses were controlled demolitions. I know you will pretend otherwise, but your pretending isn't going to change reality.
{Why would they be willing to kill thousands to steal oil, but not kill one more to keep the secret
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 5:24pm}
It wasn't for oil, it was for POWER. You know this. Everyone knows this. You only only to see what has happened since to prove it
Oh, and people have died, I'm sure. They're been "suicided" like a certain gonzo journalist was. He's not the only one.
{By their own reasoning they are proved either completely insane
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 5:24pm}
B U L L S H I T
People have fought back against LIES and tyranny througout history. Claiming that they're all insane is insulting to some of your own ancestors who no doubt did the same thing in the past so you could live in the freedom that you have.
{Clearly these conspirators are highly skilled, they're ruthless, don't care about killing innocent people and are very well connected.
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 5:24pm}
Yes, and they aren't everywhere and they aren't immortal, and they are only human. They are also very vulnerable to the truth, which is why they spend so much effort LYING and employing shills on message boards, and manipulating the mainstream media in the USA.
Oh, and this is still a troll ballot because you gave no other choices, nor fair choices.
You know, I think it would make a lot more sense, if there were a conspiracy, for them (whoever 'they' are) to have people pretend to be crazy conspiracy theorists to make anyone who questions the official story likewise seem crazy by association.
It'd be about like getting the klan to come out in favor of the conspiracy theory (aren't they?). Few people would want to openly associate with people like that, so complaints die down.
So lovelynice, prove you aren't a secret government double agent out to discredit the conspiracy theorists with your blatant insanity.
And all the relevent choices were given, either you believe your own rants, or you don't.
Voted : There's a mix, they sort of believe it but are also motivated for other reasons to espouse this idea
Espouse, is that like a Modern Day 'Mail order Bride'?
by MO_ on Mon Sep 04, 06 7:48pm
[+]
es‧pouse:
1. to make one's own; adopt or embrace, as a cause.
2. to marry.
3. to give (a woman) in marriage.
One side says the conspiracy theorists are "making it up" the other side says the US government are "making it up" I dont see a huge difference there except that neither side is willing to allow each other to have a point of view!!!
^they're allowed to have any point of view they wish. Just as people are allowed to believe the world is flat, 2+2= pi, and the holocaust never happened.
No one is denying them their rights to have these views. But they can't push them on everyone else and not expect people to point out the obvious flaws in their reasoning.
Personally I find it disgusting that these people will trivialize the deaths of 3000 americans just to get a little attention, or get a swipe in at the administration, I don't think their deaths should be used that way. In the same way fred phelps is disgusting for using funerals to get some air-time.
But they absolutely have the right to do these things, just don't expect to have the right to do them without facing criticism.
{You know, I think it would make a lot more sense, if there were a conspiracy, for them (whoever 'they' are) to have people pretend to be crazy conspiracy theorists to make anyone who questions the official story likewise seem crazy by association.by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 7:34pm}
Ah, like you're talking about neothe1's game with his GrassyKnoll sockpuppet that was blown in his first posted ballot
Or those IDIOTS with the stupid stories about hologram aeroplanes which nobody in the 9/11 sceptics movement (or anyone else) takes seriously, especially as the anonymous blog sites that post this stuff are so blatantly fake fronts, they stand out like a sore thumb.
It's a good thing for the truth that none of these really stupid and incredibly ALL OUT DUMB attempts ever work.
Besides, there's a problem which you ignore. Like jokes, propaganda tricks are culture-specific, and can't work across culture and language barriers. That's why none of these propaganda and shill tricks work internationally on the internet.
But maybe you never thought of that little problem. Physics on the other hand, and general facts do get accepted internationally in multiple languages.
Like the fact that it's impossible to make a cellphone call from a plane flying six miles up and at over 450mph, and the fact that even flying low at over 450mph, a cellphone call (if successfully connects, and that's a BIG 'IF') can't make a call longer than a few seconds before automatic drop out as there's no time for the hand-off to another cell.
Or the fact that NOBODY has succeeded in the simulating the collapses of the WTC buildings except as controlled demoilitions with the empirical data. That's PHYSICS for you. It doesn't give much room for LYING, because if the math doesn't stand on it's own then neither can the bullshit claims about it.
** karma **
** karma **
and by the way, Herzog, this little claim of yours
{Alright, so they carry it out with such success that they convince 99% of people ... it. by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 5:24pm}
is bullshit according to the polls that I've seen. Maybe you can show links to a few international polls (away from the USA government's sycophantic USA news media) that show that 99% of people agree with you on this. All the polls I've seen, say the majority believe the opposite of what you claim.
{Just as people are allowed to believe the world is flat....
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 8:12pm}
Common aspects of the Coincidence Theorist
...
14. The coincidence theorist attempts to use the false ascribing to the other person of more impossible beliefs than their own in order to make their own impossible coincidences seem more likely by comparison
Sorry, Herzog, but your little ploy doesn't work. It's too obvious
This emoticon could have been made for today.
' They weren't all Americans you lying bastard. There were people from numerous countries working in the WTC buildings, including people that I KNEW PERSONALLY.'
Assuming this is true, I don't, but if it were you should stop doing them the disservice of using them in your 'everybody look at me, I'm so smart' show. It's not pretty.
In fact, now I'm convinced that you are working for the government to discredit all conspiracy theorists everywhere.
Prove that you aren't and I'll listen to you. But here's the catch, denying it in any way is proof that you're part of a conspiracy. Have fun.
{ Assuming this is true, I don't, but if it were you should stop doing them the disservice ...
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 9:04pm}
The only person doing them a disservice is you, and YOU should stop playing bullshit emotional arguments instead of using FACTS and citing sources, links, and quotes.
{denying it in any way is proof that you're part of a conspiracy. Have fun.
by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 9:20pm}
and making such a statement is definite proof that I'm right and you really are a shill, and you really can't debate honestly nor bring facts to a debate.
If you could, then you would stop engaging in making personal attacks and start citing FACTS.
Voted : There's a mix, they sort of believe it but are also motivated for other reasons to espouse this idea
Some of them could be winding us up for their own reasons. I find it hard to believe that anyone could be as obtuse as David Icke but maybe they believe every word of their completely mad world view. Who cares anyway? I try to avoid talking to stupid or mad people and I definetely dont engage in conversations with wind up merhants.
" They weren't all Americans you lying bastard. There were people from numerous countries working in the WTC buildings, including people that I KNEW PERSONALLY." Lovelynice
I distinctly remember either coldcircuit or meteor7 making this EXACT same claim. Hmm What are the odds of this? Two people in Japan and BOTH are users on here and BOTH claim to have known people or persons who died in the WTC attack.
Methinks someone is getting their alias stories confused.
You tell me. Check out the most recent karma attacks.
101303
Tue Sep 05, 06 1:06am
Received karma rating of : -5 from Lovelynice
For the Ballot #101303 @ Bestandworst.com.
SABOTAGE - troll ballot
Tue Sep 05, 06 1:04am
Received karma rating of : -5 from Lovelynice
For the ballot choice #890517 @ Bestandworst.com.
OFFENSIVE - troll ballot
Tue Sep 05, 06 1:03am
Received karma rating of : -5 from Lovelynice
For the ballot choice #890518 @ Bestandworst.com.
OFFENSIVE - troll ballot
Check out this ballotballot #101303
We should remember that the only conspiracy that the neocons believe in is the "Black, Muslim, Liberal Democrat, Feminist, Newsmedia, Ray Nagin, Cindy Sheehan Raising Taxes on the Rich, Not Supporting Israel, and Preventing Neocons From Getting Laid Conspiracy."
{Alright, so they carry it out with such success that they convince 99% of people that a plane hit it, even though it was controlled explosives and a missle, they believe this despite witnessing it. by herzog on Mon Sep 04, 06 5:24pm}
Playing a little strawman argument by implication there aren't you? I for one have never said that it wasn't a plane which hit the Pentagon, but I would dearly LOVE to see the videos from all those other camera PROVING IT WAS A HUGE PASSENGER PLANE! Why doesn't the USA government release the videos showing an ACTUAL PLANE hitting the Pentagon. Not a blur, not a "missile-like" streak of smoke trail....but a clear image of a huge passenger plane hitting the Pentagon. It also has to show how the wings retracted and folded up to go through the little hole, and how the plane could fly with those too small engines (well, those rotors and engine parts are from a much smaller aircraft than a 757/767).
and Beauregard likes to play silly games by blocking this comment
^ You still haven't convinced me.
Are you typing all this from an underground CIA bunker?
{^ You still haven't convinced me. by herzog on Tue Sep 05, 06 9:43pm}
Don't place so much importance on yourself. I'm NOT trying to convince YOU of anything since you don't care about it on this subject. You've used two tactics on this ballot, you have engaged in person attacks, and you've attempted strawman arguments by implication. Since on both of these, and throughout this ballot, it's very clear which side you're on as you defend the Official 9/11 Lies, then you have all but openly declared your true allegiance.
{I distinctly remember either coldcircuit or meteor7 making this EXACT same claim. by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Tue Sep 05, 06 6:43am}
It was Coldcircuit. His sister worked at a dutch financial company, he used to work for the same company at one time. I had a lot of friends at the same company as they employed many Japanese. I worked with some of those people too. I know one other Japanese at present who also knew people who died in the WTC. 3000 people will easily be known to 300,000 and have families as well, and it shouldn't be surprising that many of these people are angry too, and that they post on websites about this subject because they are angry. I can in contact with a man who lost his son in the WTC as well; he's in contact with many more people who were also related to victims in some way. Now, think about this; most of those who died in the upper floors of the WTC twin towers were very successful, from wealthy families. They were in financial companies and trading companies. Many were non-American, meaning their relatives are not going to be convinced by the USA news media because they don't live in the USA. They were rich compared to most people; they can afford regular overseas trips and they afford to pay for private investigators. They are often going to be somewhat well connected (like me). They will know people who know people, and in some countries like Japan, Australia, France, the UK, family ties are close and almost clan like.
Think about this. Kill one rich person's kids, and they can cause a lot of trouble about it. Kill the kids pf 3000 families that aren't just 'average'people, what do you think is going to happen?
and I've met a lot more people online as well because of the same subject. Shared interests. And sometimes I've asked them to post here too, just like someone a long time ago asked me to post here. On another site, the same thing happens. Sometimes people from this site post there. Unlike me, they use different names, but I always keep the same one because otherwise my friends couldn't find me so easily to contact me.
Oh, and that man I mentioned who lost his son at the WTC, he's part of a large group of relatives of victims and friends of victims and they keep in contact with each other.
You're still coming off as a government agent.
That's nice, and why would that be?
On the other side, you act exactly like one - for somebody. ADL perhaps? Like Jinn's mad obsession for blaming all the world's problems on Muslims. Don't you do the same thing?
In any case, everything I said before is storytelling; I won't be trying to claim "secret knowledge" beyond what I can cite with links, sources, and quotes. Unlike some who claim that the cellphone calls from passenger planes 'must' be real because of their storytelling about a relative's friend's spouse's 2nd cousin removed recieved a cellphone call... or some such nonsense. Which by itself as a claim proves nothing and has no credibility regards to the cellphone calls for very obvious reasons.
Of course, that doesn't mean that I don't know more than I cite, link, or quote. I know a great deal. But unless I can cite a source, link, or quote it, I won't be bringing that information into a 9/11 debate.
Herzog, you never answered any of these questions.
Where's some real video of a huge plane hitting the Pentagon? You can't show any.
When is that you are you going to explain how it is possible for all the supports on a floor (both the undamaged structural supports and the damaged ones in varying amounts of damage), to fail on all sides of a building - at the exact same time - not just in 1 building, but in all 3 buildings on the same day?
When is that you are you going to provide links, quotes, and sources to back your claims about the cellphones, and show a scientific study that shows that cellphones can make successful many-minutes-long calls from passenger jets flying at passenger jet speeds, and at passenger jet altitudes?
When is that you are you going to cite any event where steel-framed hi-rises collapsed straight-down into their bases any time in the entire history of steel-framed hi-rise buildings without a controlled demolition being the cause - apart from the 3 buildings of 9-11 (WTC 1, 2, 7)?
When will you back your point of view about 9-11 with a link, source, and quote from somebody, anybody, whose mathematical simulation or computer simulation based on the empirical data (without distortion, deviation, or bullshit fictions) proves that there was enough energy for a gravity-driven collapse?
Please explain WHY if it was floors collapsing, then how the explosions were blowing out floors BEFORE those floors from above could reach them? This is visible on the videos in slow motion - you can see such on this video showing explosions going off many stories below the collapse, and eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions as well as their reporting of the first big explosions happening BELOW the plane impact point. Witnesses confirm this;
video . google . com / videoplay ? docid = 3249714675910247150 & q = 911 & h l = en
Please explain why the seismic tremors were shorter than the collapse times, and cite at least a couple of geologists and/seismic experts explaining this - because according to everyone I've asked, this is impossible and shows that the energy source for the tremors was not the collapsing buildings but could only be from another source (explosions).
You've been asked to provide real answers to many of these questions asked by Ken from Dublin, Lovelynice, Meteor7, Coldcircuit, Blackcat06, Tank Girl, but you have never answered them
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