result #105601 - CONSERVATIVES OR LIBERALS, WHO MOST WANTS TO EMPOWER THE INDIVIDUAL?

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prediction : political :

CONSERVATIVES OR LIBERALS, WHO MOST WANTS TO EMPOWER THE INDIVIDUAL?


[+] ballot by RobinGaylord
created Sun Nov 19, 06
I constantly hear conservatives criticize liberals for their socialist leanings, claiming that wanting a form of universal health care (even one that requires employers to supply one) is a form of socialism that will quickly lead to a totalitarian state. The idea seems simple enough, the more you empower the government the more the government controls you. But as a democracy our government is controlled by the people. How is requiring that every business supply an adequate health care plan for all of their employees any different than requiring everyone on the interstate not exceed 75 miles per hour? In the realm of morality I have no problem with the government imposing regulations that will achieve a more productive economy AND an emotionally stable citizenry. It is in everyones best interest to ensure that American workers are healthy. Supplying them with the opportunity to keep themselves healthy is an extension of their rights not a restriction to them.
I've run on about this issue and digressed a bit so I must get back to my main point. Conservatives complain about liberals being against personal empowerment all the time, but in the same breath they claim to support the patriot act or consent (usually through silence) to secret prisons or the abolition of habeas corpus or the flagrant disregard for their 4th amendment rights at air ports or libraries. Why? Because they don't really care about personal empowerment they just want to ensure that the totalitarian government that controls them is one that endorses their bigotry against gays, non-christians and often times even ethnic minorities. If they really care about personal empowerment, why are they against gay marriage? Why do so many want religious doctrines taught as science in our schools? Why are so many for outsourcing?
Conservatives or liberals, who most wants to empower the individual?

Liberals 14
Conservatives 8

Ballot #105601: has 22 total votes.
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COMMENTS:
bla bla bla do you and cranky do anything other than attack attack attack?

by jappy on Sun Nov 19, 06 3:47pm [+]

That's exactly why I'm not down with either party.
by nuckinfutz on Sun Nov 19, 06 3:47pm [+]

Voted : Liberals
Liberals, from the word 'liberty' or freedom.

We tend to look forward, embrace change and have a live and let live philosophy.
by Steelhamster on Sun Nov 19, 06 3:49pm [+]

Maybe something you both should realize is that you are equating current politicians to being liberals and conservatives, which is in fact untrue, they are false representations of what they pretend to be. Republicans are hardly conservative, and the Democrats for the most part aren't very liberal. This being said, it makes this ballot meaningless. Had you said "republicans and democrats" that might have been another story.
by jappy on Sun Nov 19, 06 3:49pm [+]

I can make a case for both trying and neither really succeeding. To oversimplify, which does the entire subject a great injustice, liberals would give a man a fish, while conservatives would teach a man how to fish. Neither solution is perfect. Time for a new model.
by Truthseeker013 on Sun Nov 19, 06 3:50pm [+]

I think a government of, by and for the people can do a lot of good sometimes. The free market also has it's place. Overall, liberals believe more in individual rights, civil rights and human rights. When there's reason to believe a government controlled by the people can do better at provide a rational system of health care, one with more preventive care and fewer expensive trips to emergency rooms by the ininsured, that experiment should be tried. It's not like the current system is perfect. When the system is broke, conservatives say it's not broke and ignore problems.
by skylab on Sun Nov 19, 06 5:08pm [+]

Voted : Liberals
Real liberals.

Socialists/leftists/fascists seek to give the state ownership of the individual.
by thc2883 on Sun Nov 19, 06 5:47pm [+]

Voted : Liberals
thc said it right. Real liberals.

On most things, the major political parties are so close together on policies as to make voting pointless......
by keithsheen on Sun Nov 19, 06 5:58pm [+]

See my user page in answer to THCs misguided view of socialism
by Steelhamster on Sun Nov 19, 06 6:06pm [+]

i'm a socialist, and my philosophy is that you have to do what's best for the individual AND the collective. democratic socialism.
by neothe1 on Sun Nov 19, 06 6:35pm [+]

bla bla bla bla

attack attack attack attack

bla bla bla bla
by cranky on Sun Nov 19, 06 7:57pm [+]

Voted : Conservatives
True fiscal conservatives believe in the ultimate assertion of the rights of the individual over any notion of collectivism. However, they are most interested in equality of competitive opportunity, not equality of final results. So, a true fiscal conservative would be unwaveringly against engrained social racism, but not so concerned by social stratification, provided that there was always a significant opportunity for the most talented "have nots" to advance & that institutionalized racism wasn't so endemic that this was impossible. If you work at the Quickie Mart, not just because you're black or Hispanic, but because you aren't very bright and didn't bother to advance your education or training, then that's just fine with a true fiscal conservative.

In no way are any of the current "conservatives" in D.C. true fical conservatives. Certainly the neocons are miles away from this.
by Felix on Sun Nov 19, 06 8:50pm [+]

You've written quite the load on your page steel. The fact remains, the government owns ALL means of production in a socialist state. You and your hands are a means to produce. Socialists support state ownership of the people.
by thc2883 on Mon Nov 20, 06 4:36pm [+]

Voted : Liberals
Im guessing even when you write this sort of stuff, you know it to be untrue THC, slavery is a capitalist invention not a socialist one.

Freedom is only possible when people have a stake in the society they live in, and capitalism excludes too many people.
by Steelhamster on Mon Nov 27, 06 7:20pm [+]

Voted : Conservatives
Well, my family's in the top 3% of income earners, and we earned every bit of it, no thanks to the state and federal government's attempt at grabbing as much as they can to subsidize foreign interventions and useless citizens. When I was growing up, my family was firmly in the bottom 10% of income earners.

All of this Marxist garbage generally is spouting by utter losers, who lack the intellect or spine for a truly competitive society. You want the rest of us to carry you along, and to blame those who succeed and whose success creates economies of scale--providing low-wage work for you socialist wankers.
by Felix on Sat Apr 21, 07 9:06pm [+]






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