COMMENTS:
I don't think I would go that far
by aya on Thu Nov 23, 06 10:41am
[+]
Voted : Hail to the Chief.
Hail Bush
"I don't think I would go that far"
You should vote Wacko Fanatics then 
There are certainly some alarming parrallels there. 
This must be hyperbole day. Yes, we are rounding up millions of Muslims and sending them to concentration camps to be gassed. Maybe I missed something, but I don't see this happening.
This argumentative style is roughly equivalent to playing the "RACE CARD". Hitler is the archetype for bad, so anything bad is Hitler. Hitler was involved in war. Bush is involved in war therefore Bush = Hitler. This is the weakest and laziest way of making an intellectual argument against Bush, etc. You can certainly make a more valid and credible argument without resorting to such tactics.
The argument you make is along the lines of the "everyone is Hitler". Gitmo is a concentration camp like Auschwitz.
I'll give a few examples of the ridiculousness of this Nazi/Hitler analogy.
1. Rick Santorum compared Democrats to Hitler.
2. Robert Byrd compared Republicans to Hitler.
3. John Glenn compared Republicans to Hitler.
4. Some have said George Soros is worse than Hitler.
5. Senator Dick Durbin compares Nazi Holocaust (6m dead), Stalin's gulag (18m dead), & killing fields of Pol Pot (2m dead) to Gitmo (0 dead).
6. Hugo Chavez compared Spanish PM Jose Aznar to Hitler.
7. "Look, he's a Hitler lover." Donald Trump commenting on Pat Buchanan.
8. "Next to Hitler, AIDS is the worst thing to happen in the twentieth century," - Madonna
9. The British Foreign Secretary compared Saddam to Hitler.
10. Ralph Peters (in the NY Post) compared Howard Dean to Hitler.
11. Ross Perot compared Bill Clinton to Hitler.
12. The Hawaii ACLU compared Clarence Thomas to Hitler.
13. Of course Ward Churchill and his comparison of 9/11 victims as "little Eichmanns".
14. A UN official stated: “What is the difference between (scientist) Lomborg's view of humanity & Hitler's".
15. Prince Harry is Hitler.
A tad bit ridiculous. And I could list probably 100 more. This reminds me of the song "Elvis is everywhere" by Mojo Nixon. The chorus: Elvis is everywhere, Elvis is everything, Elvis is everybody. Just replace Elvis with Hitler.
You can make a sound argument against the current American government's policies without resorting to these tactics. Why not try that?
When things are done in secret, you can never be sure what is occuring...You should have left open an option to comment instead of two extreme choices...only those in power with the ability to act unilaterally (which has changed dramatically) should be considered when they make these statements and those who have been caught in many misrepresentations leave people to their imaginations and they are sure to usually think the worse...
Voted : Hail to the Chief.
Fiddle, in each example you list there is some reasonable element (I.E. an attitude, event, oversite) that the commenter preceives characteristic of fascist. Hitler=fascism, so it's not ridiculas to interchange one for the other.
Would you make the same argument if they used the word fascist instead of Hitler?
As for Gitmo, Thank you to thesoothsayer for an obvious fact. no one knows what is happening there. It can't be 'Good' or there would not be such secrecy about it.
As for numbers rounded up, and how many executed, the parallels drawn here do not represent the conclusion of Hitler's reign, but shows a pattern in the evolution of Hitler's rise to power and similarities between that evolution and the path we're currently taking.
If you choose to ignore that Bush is proceeding with a fascist attitude and in deliberate mockery of the Constitution, then you empower him to go to the next level.
Sayer, There is no middle ground to leave options open. Either you believe or you don't. I left commenting open so people could present opinion.
Thanks to both of you for your comments.
Voted : Hail to the Chief.
Or should that be "Heil to the Chief"?
minni makes a good point.
Voted : Wacko Fanatics.
I don't think there is a historical presecent for the current policies of the Bush administration.
I do know that the rise in power of a subjugated people under a leader with charisma and focus (on top of supreme arrogance and abhorrable morality) as was the case in 1930's Germany is definitely not what is happening in the USA. There are so many differences I don't know where to begin.
Hey Ken, we could all trawl through the internet to find a suitably evil photo of Bush to paste next to Hitler with extra fearful imagery ... it only proves that your argument is woefully inadequate when you have to go to such depths.
Less so than a few years ago... it's now becoming clear that Herr Chimp doesn't have enough of the public vote.
But it must be said, that trite old expression "The Land Of The Free" rings very hollow nowadays. I count myself fortunate indeed that I'm not a seppo.
Maybe there'd be a better parallel if the Reichs-Chimp built a few new motorways & got his boffins working on an iconic new car?
Civi,If you don't think there's a precedence, your right. It was irrational for Hitler to 'round up' and imprison people who were dissatisfied with his aryan rhetoric, egregious inequitable burden of taxation and distribution of wealth though oppressive policies, misrepresenting facts and lying to gain support for unjust or immoral motivations (Oil), then accuse the oppressed of responsibility for the civil unrest and racial hostilities.
No, the only precedence for that is the injustice of tyrannies.
The people Bush has secretly
"detained" and held without trial, are not guilty of committing or conspiring in a crime. If they're accused, put them on trial. Why deny them a trial, and secretly torture and execute them, violating their human rights.
Like Hitler, Bush is pursuing the same strategy of lying, manipulation and fascist rule in an effort to preserve America's political and economic domination in the world.
My question is, Who's next?
yeah I meant precedent but didn't quite type it ...
passiveson, I'm definitely not supporting any of the Bush 'policies' you are refering to. But I really don't think what is happening now has any semblance to the regime of Hitler.
The way I see it Bush and co. have gotten away with what they do because of apathy and general ignorance in a large spectrum of the american population, along with large private media empires thriving on scaring people rather than informing ... this and a bevvy of western countries eagre to get closer links turning a blind eye.
Although the latter may be true in the case of Nazi Germany, the people were anything but apathetic. Germany was a mess and the people were desperate to find a way out.
America is still a democracy so you can get rid of him ... but hey if you give 300 million people only 2 people to vote for ...
Bush:
Ill advised and somewhat ignornat in a position of great power? ... Yes. Adolf Hitler? ... No.
So USA isn't a new German empire.
"The way I see it Bush and co. have gotten away with what they do because of apathy and general ignorance in a large spectrum of the american population"
George Bush isn't the real (direct) threat, he's a puppet. The current administration is under the directives of the neo-conservative think tank {PNAC}.
On their web site the Statement of principles, cites "Does the United States have the resolve to shape a new century favorable to American principles and interests"?
It's statements like this and subversion in the White House from open policy, accountability and truth to the facts that concerns me.
My friend, the statement above is absolute semblence of the NAZI ideology. It alone discloses the purpose of the post 9/11 invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq based wholly on deceit and propaganda.
Targeting Nations innocent of the charges Bush levied against them, and there is not a single, irrefutable piece of concrete evidence to supporting the charges, is again semblence to the NAZI movement.
And have you read The National Security Strategy of the United States of America, published on September 20, 2002.?
If not, I suggest you do, because it describes the foreign policy guidelines employing a new phase in US policy that would place greater emphasis on military pre-emption, military superiority ("strength beyond challenge"), unilateral action, and a commitment to "extending democracy, liberty, and security to all regions".
A very fascist dictate of
"unilateral" decision making and pre-emptive miltary force (on Afghanistan and Iraq) for what? WMD and 9/11?
Here's the excerpt
A policy of preventive war, should the US or its allies be threatened by terrorists or by rogue states that are engaged in the production of weapons of mass destruction
The right of self-defense should be extended in order to authorize pre-emptive attacks against potential aggressors cutting them off before they are able to launch strikes against the US.
Reasonable?
Yeah, if they weren't used under guise of lying and abused.
More semblence to the NAZI's.
Wow, a bush is hitler ballot. Very original.
Let's look at the facts, if the US were comparable to nazi germany all muslims would be legally denied their rights, and rounded up, rather than most having equal rights and a handful of terrorists facing jailtime. The democrats would not have swooped in and stolen the midterm election because they would likewise be in camps and there would be no opposition. And all this criticism we've heard of the government lately? Yeah, that wouldn't exist either.
I wish people would get a sense of perspective so the few sane users left wouldn't have to repeatedly disprove these ballots.
^ Tchah! Such an ignorant young pup.
Himmler was fascinated by by the Islamic faith, and considered Muslims to be fearless soldiers who had little fear of death.
He actively recruited about 20,000 Croatian and Albanian muslims into the Waffen-SS.
You appear to be more of an overblown buffoon with each & every ill-considered comment you make, herzog.
By comparison, the maturity of the NAZI party did not reach it's peak until years after Hitler Becane dictator.
The evolusion of the autrocities were gradual. They didn't just build the camps all at once and then fill them up.
First, it was the intellectual who spoke against the lies and policies that promoted aryan privledge and pure race.
"a handful of terrorists facing jailtime"
This is another bigoted idea. What crimes have they committed? What evidence is there that proves they are terrorist?
I'll tell you. There's None. They didn't fly the planes or blow up the WTC.
By definition, if all members of Al Qaeda are guilty for the WTC, Then all KKK members are guilty of conspiracy to commit bank robbery, murder, counterfieting, manufacturing and distributing drugs, arson, attempting to overthrow the government. Why aren't we rounding them up, putting them in military prisons and not giving them trials. They're considered terrorists and the American Government is protecting them and their rights.
Who's next herzog? The Hackers and Cyber Networkers. Everyone who is member on Best and Worst because some ballots get posted about getting rid of Bush?
You can't blame the whole group because a few crossed the line. The alleged Hi-jacker were muslim, well, better get to work Herz.
"a bush is hitler ballot"
Is that what you see? If it is, you need some IQ.
The ballot compares America's current foreign policy with the early era policies of the NAZI party in Germany and the similarity between the direction it's going and the Hitlers rise to power.
You come here to disprove nothing and show everyone that you dispise people for having different perspectives than yu. Another bigoted characteristic.
Herz, your method of debate equates to little fact and big condecending and belittling arrogance.
Puffy Chest Swaggler Beller-o-phone Chider.
Come back when you have an argument of substance.
Herzog's a cunt.
He appeals to the knee-jerk patriotism and parochial fears of simple, scared people. Other than that, he's a busted flush.
Pity him & his minuscule, twisted mind.
ramaDUNG - Isn't comparing the US to Nazi Germany also fear mongering, and probably more so.
It's not a rational argument to say that the US is like Nazi Germany. For one thing there is solid opposition- look at the last election results. And also, there is a lot of freedoms of dissent in the US that were non-existent in Nazi Germany. The Guantanamo Bay camps are definitely wrong, but it is an insult to everyone's intelligence to claim that the treatment of Muslims is just like Nazi Germany's treatment of Jews. Most American Muslims are integrated into the country.
Socrates - Nazi Germany didn't come into being complete with death camps and secret police, it was a product of evolution.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist by any stretch of the imagination, but I have an open mind & I do believe that there are a number of open questions relating to e.g. the WTC attacks and the reasons for the invasion of Iraq that cast a shadow of doubt over the official version of events.
A parallel can be drawn here with the cause & event scenarios that allowed the Nazis to restrict civil liberties and wage war in 1930s Germany (such as the Reichstag fire and the "Polish" attack on the radio station at Gleiwitz, both now known to have been orchestrated by the Nazis).
^ "...cause and effect", not "cause & event".
ramaDUNG- would you say the Reichstag fire damaged the German economy more or less than the WTC attacks damaged the American economy?
Why would the US government, if they had to choose to hit a target that would cause so much damage to the US economy? Unlikely.
I guess you actually do wear that motto.
Because they're highly visible targets,Almost all americans watched the second plane hit and the magnitude of the emotional impact on the American people and our allies is maximized.
By design, it opened a direct channel to proceed uncheck and unopposed in the direction premeditated by the current Administration.
Let me be very clear on this; PNAC, a neo-conservative think tank, is directing the White House for control of central asian oil, piped through afghanistan into Pakistan, and Iraq owns the third largest oil reserve in the world.
Enough oil to keep America a stronge economic leade for nearly the next 50 years. Economically, the loses to the American economy resulting from destroying the Towers would be considered a capital investment in contrast to the production of 400 billion barrels of oil from Iraq and in addition to the central asian pipeline. Investments, employment, lower fuel prices= profits and power over those who don't have it.
It's "reasonably" the least compounding way to solve America's current dependence on foreign governments, keep and build a strong military "Defensive" force (yeah right) and continue to be the most influential leader Nation in thew world.
Damn, You guys really need to start thinking for yourselve, you're taxing me worse than my Country.
The German Empire was not hated as much as the United States is today...therefore the latter will never be as strong.
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