COMMENTS:
Voted : Historical Truth - no sacred cows, no holy writ
Most of history is lie.
THE UNNECESSARY BOMBING OF HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI
The popular claim that the dropping of the nuclear bombs saved a million lives was fictional BS; McGeorge Bundy, the man who first popularized this figure, later confessed that he had pulled it out of thin air in order to justify the bombings in a 1947 Harper's magazine essay he had ghostwritten for Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson. The Japanese government had also tried repeatedly to offer surrender with only one condition; the emperor would be safe. Guess what; that's exactly the condition that the USA accepted at the end anyway.
The Japanese first offered surrender straight after the Potsdam declaration. The ONLY condition they attached to their surrender was that the emperor would be protected. The USA refused to accept the Japanese offer of surrender. The Japanese tried again at least 3 times, two of those times via the Russians but the Russians apparently didn't pass the Japanese surrender offer onto the USA. The Japanese government also offered surrender by radio broadcasts, but again the leaders of the government of the USA refused to talk about it and pretended that they only wanted an unconditional surrender.
If the USA really wanted a quick surrender from Japan, then the USA should've simply agreed to the same conditions that the Japanese had asked for in response to the Potsdam Declaration; namely allow the Emperor's sacred position to be protected. Since that's the condition that the USA allowed in the end anyway, they could've accepted the Japanese surrender weeks before.
Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower, years later, declared that there was no need to attack Japan with "that awful thing,"
Admiral William Leahy, President Truman's wartime chief of staff, who chaired the Joint Chiefs, said "the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender ... in being the first to use it, we adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages."
Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."
Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.
BRIGADIER GENERAL CARTER CLARKE
(The military intelligence officer in charge of preparing intercepted Japanese cables - the MAGIC summaries - for Truman and his advisors)
"...when we didn't need to do it, and we knew we didn't need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."
Quoted in Gar Alperovitz, The Decision To Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 359.
PEARL HARBOR WAS NOT A "SURPRISE ATTACK"
Ever read The McCollum Memo?
Some critical excerpts from this plan to instigate the War with Japan by so pissing off the Japanese government that Japan would be forced to respond with an attack.
{9. It is not believed that in the present state of
political opinion the United States government is capable of
declaring war against Japan without more ado; and it is barely
possible that vigorous action on our part might lead the
Japanese to modify their attitude. Therefore, the following
course of action is suggested:
A. Make an arrangement with Britain for the use of
British bases in the Pacific, particularly
Singapore.
B. Make an arrangement with Holland for the use of
base facilities and acquisition of supplies
in the Dutch East Indies.
C. Give all possible aid to the Chinese government
of Chiang-Kai-Shek.
D. Send a division of long range heavy cruisers to
the Orient, Philippines, or Singapore.
E. Send two divisions of submarines to the Orient.
F. Keep the main strength of the U.S. fleet now in
the Pacific in the vicinity of the Hawaiian Islands.
G. Insist that the Dutch refuse to grant Japanese
demands for undue economic concessions,
particularly oil.
H. Completely embargo all U.S. trade with Japan,
in collaboration with a similar embargo imposed
by the British Empire.
10. If by these means Japan could be led to commit an
overt act of war, so much the better. At all events we must be fully
prepared to accept the threat of war.}
Kind of reminds me of the Downing Street Memo, the lies about WMDs in Iraq.
Now this really takes the kicker!
Widehead called this ballot "racist"
Received karma rating of : -5 from wideheadofknowledge
For the Ballot #106589 @ Bestandworst.com.
RACIST -
What a fruitcake!
I want the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, I just made couple ballots on what we are taught in our schools and what really happened. But just because I might question the offical version of events without , dosent' necessarily mean I will blindly accept the unofficial version either. I try to do research and decide what version makes the most sense or has the most evidence to make me believe.
My answer to the ballot question, no, I dont' just accept without question the offical version or the non official version of history.
{dosent' necessarily mean I will blindly accept the unofficial version either...
by larrynelmira on Sat Dec 09, 06 3:03am}
whatever the unofficial version is - there's always some really weird ones too. I always maintain my scepticism.
Widehead apparently also is a firm believer in the police state mentality, calling the questioning of "official truth" OFFENSIVE apparently
Received karma rating of : -5 from wideheadofknowledge
For the Ballot #106589 @ Bestandworst.com.
OFFENSIVE -
Sad, sad, sad....
I do hope that he grows one day and learns to be a little more mature.
Voted : Historical Truth - no sacred cows, no holy writ
It's important to question everything.
Voted : Historical Truth - no sacred cows, no holy writ
^ what he said
by mojo on Sat Dec 09, 06 6:08am
[+]
It's a matter of historical record that the Japanese Imperial Army treated prisoners of war and civilians in its occupied territories with absolute barbarity.
Furthermore, the "medical" experiments carried out by the Japanese in WWII on live civilian prisoners and Allied prisoners of war rivalled the very worst excesses of the Nazi regime. This is also a matter of historical record.
So it rings rather hollow for a Japanese person to come on this website blathering accusations of Allied unscrupulousness.
Yes, you have a right to express your opinion. So do others. You have no right to expect everyone to agree with your opinion. And if your questioning is too one sided, there is good reason to question your motive.
Also, it's strange that you would use the word "denial." Is that denial of denial?
Voted : Historical Truth - no sacred cows, no holy writ
I think we should question everything.
We all deserve to be told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help us all, our history and future...Most importantly, no one should be penalized for giving their opinion about a subject matter (no matter how insulting, disgusting, obnoxious and misinformed that person may be)when we disagree and/or are insulted. 
{So it rings rather hollow for a Japanese person ...
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 7:46am}
I was BORN IN AUSTRALIA.
My had relatives on BOTH SIDES.
I think if anything, it helps me more to have an unblinkered opinion and willingness to accept that atrocities were committed by BOTH SIDES because my education has not been one-sided.
The only thing that rings clear to me, is that the racism in your comment just drools disgustingly all over the place.
{You have no right to expect everyone to agree with your opinion...
by skylab on Sat Dec 09, 06 9:30am}
NEITHER SHOULD YOU.
Don't push your hippocracy so obviously.
"I was BORN IN AUSTRALIA.
My had relatives on BOTH SIDES."
I know where you were born, and I've got a good idea of what you are from the tone & content of your apologist comments. WHO CARES if "only" a certain number of people were killed in the Bombing of Nangking, etc. etc. It's a piss in the ocean amongst the countless inhumane excesses of the Japanese Imperial Army. And as I'm sure you know, Nangking was the the headquarters of the Tama Unit (Ei-1644), which carried out extensive joint operations with the notorious Unit 731.
But for the sake of argument, lovelynice (or may I call you "maruta?") - why don't you share some of your stories of Allied atrocities in WWII?
You know, like the sort of thing Unit 731 got up to. They're real atrocities. I know all about the air campaigns against Dresden & Hamburg, and I know that the Allied powers had committed to accepting nothing less than unconditional surrender from the aggressor Axis nations at the Casablanca Conference in 1943, so I'm not interested in your blathering about bombing missions, however you feel about them 60 years after the event - these at least had a military aim, whereas you can't say the same about the Japanese Army's medical experiments and routine beheading of prisoners.
Voted : Historical Truth - no sacred cows, no holy writ
I believe in the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth.
{But for the sake of argument, lovelynice - why don't you share some of your stories of Allied atrocities in WWII?
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 2:10pm}
I have - many times. Then what usually happens, some twit like you comes along and makes up bullshit excuses about "moral equivalency" without actually dealing with the facts cited.
Are you still trying to pretend that your racism isn't obvious to everyone? It's pretty clear to me. Afterall, it's inherent in your accusation that because I am partly Japanese, that I can't question Japanese history. This is equivalent to me to implying to a White Anglo-Saxon American that they're biased and can't question the alleged "historical facts" of the atrocities committed against the Amerindians and against people of African-American descent.
Get off your high horse; your racist bullshit is showing.
{and I know that the Allied powers had committed to accepting nothing less than unconditional surrender...
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 2:10pm}
which they didn't with Japan. Check reality again. The Japanese had one condition; protect the status of the Emperor. Guess what; they did. The conditions of the surrender were accepted as shown by the actions of history - it doesn't matter what spin you try and put on it, the dropping of the nukes on Hiroshima and Nagasaki had nothing to do with achieving Japanese surrender because that surrender had already been offered.
{ You know, like the sort of thing Unit 731 got up to. They're real atrocities...
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 2:10pm}
The USA government did a lot of that kind of thing too - against their OWN PEOPLE.
1918: In response to the Germans' use of chemical weapons during World War I, President Wilson creates the Chemical Warfare Service (CWS) as a branch of the U.S. Army. Twenty-four years later, in 1942, the CWS would begin performing mustard gas and lewisite experiments on over 4,000 members of the armed forces
1931: The Puerto Rican Cancer Experiment is undertaken by Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, a pathologist from the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research. Under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, Rhoads purposely infected his subjects with cancer cells. Thirteen of the subjects died. Though a Puerto Rican doctor later discovers that Rhoads purposely covered up some of details of his experiment , and in spite of Rhoads' written opinions that the Puerto Rican population should be eradicated, Rhoads went on to establish U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama. He later was named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission and was at the heart of the recently revealed radiation experiments on prisoners, hospital patients, and soldiers
1932: Margaret Sanger. the founder of Planned Parenthood, wrote in "A Plan For Peace" that her aims were, "To give certain dysgenic groups in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization". Between 2000-4000 forced sterilizations per year were taking place in the United States.
1941: Researchers give 800 poverty-stricken pregnant women at a Vanderbilt University prenatal clinic "cocktails" including radioactive iron in order to determine the iron requirements of pregnant women
1942: The United States creates Fort Detrick, a 92-acre facility, employing nearly 500 scientists working to create biological weapons and develop defensive measures against them. Fort Detrick's main objectives include investigating whether diseases are transmitted by inhalation, digestion or through skin absorption; of course, these biological warfare experiments heavily relied on the use of human subjects
1942: The Chemical Warfare Service begins mustard gas and lewisite experiments on 4,000 members of the U.S. military. Some test subjects don't realize they are volunteering for chemical exposure experiments, like 17-year-old Nathan Schnurman, who in 1944 thinks he is only volunteering to test "U.S. Navy summer clothes" (Goliszek). The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.
Do you want more? There's HEAPS!
{your blathering about bombing missions...
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 2:10pm}
As to bombing missions, since YOU BROUGHT THE SUBJECT UP.
My paternal grandfather was in Darwin when the entire city got flattened by the Japanese. Nine times.
{I believe in the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing But the Truth.
by Truthseeker013 on Sat Dec 09, 06 3:34pm}
Whatever it might be - and that's the problem.
{routine beheading of prisoners.
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 2:10pm}
and beheading is somehow worse than shooting prisoners in what way exactly?
It's not like there's a real difference, since either way, they're still being killed.
American and Australian soldiers massacred Japanese prisoners of war, according to one of the most detailed studies of memoirs of the Second World War in the Pacific. In "The Faraway War", published to coincide with the 60th anniversary of the Hiroshima atom bomb and of VJ Day, Prof Richard Aldrich of Nottingham University has gathered the diaries of men and women from across the Pacific war front, from the common soldier to the highest general. He quotes the diaries of Charles Lindbergh, the American aviation pioneer, who toured the Far East visiting United States units. On one occasion he commented to a group of senior officers that very few Japanese seemed to be taken prisoner. "Oh, we could take more if we wanted to," one of the officers replied. "But our boys don't like to take prisoners. "It doesn't encourage the rest to surrender when they hear of their buddies being marched out on the flying field and machine-guns turned loose on them."
Australian troops are also shown not to like taking prisoners. Prof Aldrich quotes the 1943 diary of Eddie Stanton, an Australian posted to Goodenough Island off Papua New Guinea. "Japanese are still being shot all over the place," he wrote. "The necessity for capturing them has ceased to worry anyone. Nippo soldiers are just so much machine-gun practice. Too many of our soldiers are tied up guarding them."
My god, Maruta... you are a tortured soul, aren't you? You must really hate yourself, AND your progenitors.
BTW if you look at your first comment in this ballot, you'll realise that you brought up the subject of bombing. You also mentioned it an earlier ballot too, the one where you tried to claim that the Nangking Massacre was a misnomer because some revisionists disputed the casualty figure.
And yes: whilst I don't condone the execution of prisoners, I would argue that being shot was preferable to being ritually beheaded in front of your comrades.
PS Lindbergh was a Nazi... if you'll excuse the pun, who gives a flying fuck what he though?
You DO NOT QUESTION. Neither do your alias pals. You CUT AND PASTE PROPAGANDA from neo-NAZI and Japanese revisionist website.
Be honest about your motives. You are a hater, a denier and a RACIST. Only such a person would simultaneously deny BOTH the Holocaust and Japanese WAR CRIMES like the RAPE OF NANKING.
That puts you in a unique category. You would fit right in on the IHR website. BTW, go to their meetings and pick up another Nazi Armband.
Voted : Historical Truth - no sacred cows, no holy writ
The Israelis are just as guilty of racism against the Palestinians as the Nazis were guilty of racism against the Jews Fiddle whether you like it or can accept it or not.
The Israelis did this to a Palestinian mother and her two children last month along with dozens of other innocents in the same terrorist attack;
^Meither Israelis nor anyone else alive is the same as Hitler. Palestinians and Israelis are their own worst enemies for continuing the cycle of violence.
{You DO NOT QUESTION...
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Dec 09, 06 5:33pm}
BOO-BOO!
Actually I do. here's a question, one of many >
How many died in the Nanking Massacre? Wikipedia's little contributors don't have a clue either and I've seen a lot of different figures cited. Everything from 8,000 to 400,000. Which is correct, AND CAN YOUR PROVE THAT NUMBER?
Here's another question>
How did those Diesel Gas Chambers and Diesel Gas "murder vans" allegedly function considering that scientific studies show that Diesel Exhaust won't kill anything inside of 3 hours, and it took FIVE HOURS to kill a mouse in the original 1957 Pattel study...which was backed by the later studies of 2001 and 2004 by DEFRA? Besides even mechanics will tell you that the things would BLOW UP! I would LOVE to know...so what's been taking you so long to answer the question?
I've asked you and the other "defenders of the Official BULLSHIT" these questions and many more for MONTHS, and still you can't answer these questions.
The truth is, I've been asking LOTS OF QUESTIONS - BUT YOU HAVE NO ANSWERS. Just liek you have no answers for anything related to 9/11.
HERE'S RAMADUNG TELLING LIES!
{the one where you tried to claim that the Nangking Massacre was a misnomer ...
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 5:11pm}
You and widehead love to play games with the lying and distortion don't you? I HAVE NEVER DENIED THAT THE NANKING MASSASCRE OCCURRED! - but I've asked REPEATEDLY for someone to give a MORE ACCURATE COUNT of the DEATHTOLL.
So what is it, and CAN BACK YOUR BS?
{whilst I don't condone the execution of prisoners, I would argue that being shot was preferable...
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 5:11pm}
NO IT'S NOT ACTUALLY.
Ever been shot? Extremely painful experience. Machinegunned to death must be even worse.
KILLED IS KILLED. Slaughter of POWs was wrong, and it doesn't matter who does it. You seem to be trying to claim that because POWs were killed by Allied soldiers that it's good, while being killed by Japanese soldiers is bad.
What a load of racist crap that is!
Killed is killed. The Allies killed and tortured POWs, so did the Japanese. NO DIFFERENCE. Both sides committed atrocities. Race and colour and nationality do not somehow magically make one better than the other.
I don't know what your BS with the funny name is, so cut it out little boy.
AND FIDDLE IS INTO LYING TOO!
{simultaneously deny BOTH the Holocaust and Japanese WAR CRIMES like the RAPE OF NANKING.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Dec 09, 06 5:33pm}
No you little LIAR, I never have denied that the Nanking Masacre took place, and I've raised some damn serious questions about the Holocaust WHICH YOU CAN'T ANSWER!
I guess that telling lies is in your nature.
{Palestinians and Israelis are their own worst enemies for continuing the cycle of violence.
by skylab on Sat Dec 09, 06 8:48pm}
which side started it? ISRAELIS
How did they start it? WITH TERRORISM AND LAND STEALING.
How many Palestinians have been slaughtered by the Israeli military since 1948? MILLIONS!
{if you'll excuse the pun, who gives a flying fuck what he though?
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 5:11pm}
What's wrong? did I hurt your feelings when I showed that the Allies in the Pacific killed POWs too? Deal with it.
{You would fit right in on the IHR website...
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Dec 09, 06 5:33pm}
No. Unlikely. Maybe you would though. All you have to do is pretend that they're Israeli Zionists trying to deny the slaughter against Palestinians and you would fit right in.
"which side started it? ISRAELIS
How did they start it? WITH TERRORISM AND LAND STEALING.
How many Palestinians have been slaughtered by the Israeli military since 1948? MILLIONS!"
And the way to stop this is through violence and making vows to destroy Israel and its people?
{ And the way to stop this is through violence and making vows to destroy Israel and its people?
by himself809 on Sat Dec 09, 06 10:12pm}
Wow let't look at what happens when you turn that excuse on it's head.
And the way to stop this is through violence and making vows to destroy Palestine and its people? Oh, ISRAEL HAS NEARLY SUCCEEDED IN THAT! I suppose the Palestinians should just GIVE UP AND DIE, right?
Except that in Israel's case, it's the Israelis who are STEALING LAND AND KILLING THOSE WHO LIVED ON IT.
"I HAVE NEVER DENIED THAT THE NANKING MASSASCRE OCCURRED!"
Do you actually know what the word "misnomer" means? Look it up, there's a good apologist.
As for "Maruta", it's the Japanese word for "log, lump of wood". It's what those pleasant chaps in Unit 731 called the humans on whom they performed their experiments.
You know, when they tied naked prisoners together at below -20°C and sprayed them with freezing water to see how long they'd survive, and where the prisoners literally ripped each other apart trying to find warmth, or where the bare arms of chained prisoners were blasted with cold air until they froze, whereupon they were shattered with blows from blunt objects, or where prisoners were injected with anthrax, cholera and bubonic plague and dissected to remove the infected organs whilst they were still alive and fully conscious?
I don't often cut & paste articles on here, Maruta, but here's an article that gives a little insight into those people you seek to defend:
+++++++
In 1937, "The China Incident," a skirmish between Japanese and Chinese troops near Peking, sparked a full-scale invasion of the Chinese mainland. What was to shortly follow became known as the Nanjing Massacre or "other" holocaust.
Thousands of Chinese civilians were buried or burned alive, beheaded, used as targets for bayonet practice and shot in mass executions, while the countryside was raped and pillaged. A Tokyo Times reporter wrote, "I have never been to hell, but if there is a hell, it was in this city."
A Japanese soldier's memories corroborated that hell. "When we were bored, we had some fun killing Chinese. Buried them alive. Or pushed them into fire, or beat them to death with clubs."
Many of the atrocities were witnessed by Reverend John Magee, one of the Westerners in charge of an ineffective refugee area called the Nanjing International Safety Zone. He recorded the only known documentary of this holocaust on 16-mm film (available today on video).
At the time, the film was sent by an outraged German diplomat in Nanjing, George Rosen, to the attention of the Nazi government. He requested German intercession because "(the Japanese Army) was a violent killing machine!" It is estimated that 300,000 Chinese were killed and 20,000 women raped over the six-week period.
The Japanese army, with its control of China, now seized the opportunity to create a haven for its bacteriological research program. Dr. Shiro chose the city of Harbin as the headquarters for Unit 731.
Top secret from its inception, Unit 731 was piously labelled the Epidemic Prevention and Water Purification Department. It would eventually relocate to Pingfan, 20 km south of Harbin, where Dr. Shiro, now a full colonel, commanded 3,000 Japanese subordinates. The most sinister aspect of Unit 731, the involuntary germ warfare experimentation on live humans, now began in earnest.
Prisoners became nothing more than cheap research animals. Injected or sprayed with deadly biologicals such as plague, anthrax, cholera or typhoid, they would be tied down to tables and dissected without benefit of anesthesia.
"Vivisection should be done under normal circumstances. If we'd used anesthesia, that might have affected the body organs and blood vessels that we were examining. So we couldn't have used anesthetic," said a surviving Unit 731 medical assistant.
The "luckier" prisoners were anesthetized and then used as practice surgical subjects. Organs would be removed and limbs amputated. When the surgeons were done, the subject would be killed by lethal injection.
"Two Chinese men were brought in, stripped naked and given general anesthetic. The others began practising various kinds of surgery: first an appendectomy, then an amputation of an arm, and finally a tracheotomy," the medical assistant reported.
Some prisoners were used for "field tests" - taken to deserted areas and tied to stakes while planes sprayed the zone with plague culture or infected fleas. Others had limbs frozen to mimic frostbite, while some had deliberately inflicted shrapnel wounds infected with Clostridia to produce gas gangrene.
"The subjects were bound to stakes some 10 to 20 metres away from a shrapnel bomb that was loaded with gas gangrene. The object was not to kill the men by exploding the bomb, but to test the effectiveness of gas gangrene as a biological weapon ä All the subjects were wounded in the legs or buttocks, and seven days later they died in great torment," said the assistant.
Children did not escape the abhorrent experiments, but as always, there was contrived justification. "Of course there were experiments on children. But, probably their fathers were spies."
Sadly, no moral or ethical considerations ever entered into the equation. The prisoners were dehumanized and referred to as marutas, or "logs," a means to an end to satisfy the scientist's quest. They were identified by a three- or four-digit number.
Ironically, the "logs" were treated with good food and exercise - a "fattening up" period for the inhuman experimentation. The research facilities themselves came to be known as "lumber mills" and were surrounded by moats, tall brick walls, electric fences, watchtowers and patrolling aircraft.
A rationale for the use of prisoners was based on an old code of "honor in death." The Japanese had little tolerance for surrender and believed it was nobler to commit suicide than be captured. "They thought the prisoners would die an honorable death, if in the process they contributed to the progress of medical science,"noted one report.
But, by 1944, the tides of war had changed. Japan was nearing defeat. Unit 731's efforts became more frantic. Plans were made to launch huge balloons loaded with deadly bacterial pathogens with the hope that the prevailing winds would carry them to the U.S. West Coast.
In 1945, Unit 731 was working on the deadliest scheme of all, "Operation Cherry Blossoms at Night." It was a plan to use kamikazes to attack California and infect the state with bacteria-infected fleas. Luckily, this desperate lunacy was cut short by, arguably, another lunacy, the atomic bombs at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Japan was forced to surrender.
One of the last acts of Unit 731 was to cover up the secret operation by eliminating all the remaining "logs," about 150 prisoners. Overall, it has been conservatively estimated that 3,000 humans were killed in these medical experiments. As well, plague-infected animals were released into the Chinese countryside killing at least 30,000 people in the Harbin area from 1946-48.
One would assume that at the end of the War in the Pacific there would be the same cries of outrage that led to the Nuremberg war crimes trials in Europe. This was not to happen. A secret deal was cut between the U.S. (who feared the Japanese germ warfare data might fall into Russian hands) and Japan that kept Unit 731's activities classified and allowed immunity.
+++
It's quite telling that the Japanese behaviour in Nangking was criticised by their own allies, don't you think??
{"I HAVE NEVER DENIED THAT THE NANKING MASSASCRE OCCURRED!"
Do you actually know what the word "misnomer" means..
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 3:45am}
Do you know what HONESTY is? Apparently you DON'T. Look it up and stop trying to tell lies about what I say.
Well, Rama-SHIT
It looks like the USA is into dosing pregnant women with radioactives, inujecting people with diseases without any informed consent, doping the water supply, spreading toxic chemicals and bacteria over cities, torturing people just to see how they respond (again without consent)....
1941: Researchers give 800 poverty-stricken pregnant women at a Vanderbilt University prenatal clinic "cocktails" including radioactive iron in order to determine the iron requirements of pregnant women
1942: U.S. Army and Navy doctors infect 400 prison inmates in Chicago with malaria to study the disease and hopefully develop a treatment for it. The prisoners are told that they are helping the war effort, but not that they are going to be infected with malaria.
1944: The Manhattan Project medical team, led by the now infamous University of Rochester radiologist Col. Safford Warren, injects plutonium into patients at the University's teaching hospital, Strong Memorial
1945: Continuing the Manhattan Project, researchers inject plutonium into three patients at the University of Chicago's Billings Hospital
1945: Researchers infect 800 prisoners in Atlanta with malaria to study the disease
1945: "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. (Griffiths and Bryson) One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.
1946 - 1947: University of Rochester researchers inject four male and two female human test subjects with uranium-234 and uranium-235 in dosages ranging from 6.4 to 70.7 micrograms per one kilogram of body weight in order to study how much uranium they could tolerate before their kidneys become damaged
1946: Six male employees of a Chicago metallurgical laboratory are given water contaminated with plutonium-239 to drink so that researchers can learn how plutonium is absorbed into the digestive tract
1946: Researchers begin using patients in VA hospitals as test subjects for human medical experiments, cleverly worded as "investigations" or "observations" in medical study reports to avoid negative connotations and bad publicity
1946 - 1953: The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission sponsors studies in which researchers from Harvard Medical School, Massachusetts General Hospital and the Boston University School of Medicine feed mentally disabled students at Fernald State School Quaker Oats breakfast cereal spiked with radioactive tracers every morning so that nutritionists can study how preservatives move through the human body and if they block the absorption of vitamins and minerals. Later, MIT researchers conduct the same study at Wrentham State School
1946: Human test subjects are given one to four injections of arsenic-76 at the University of Chicago Department of Medicine. Researchers take tissue biopsies from the subjects before and after the injections
1947: Col. E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) issues a top-secret document (707075) dated Jan. 8. In it, he writes that "certain radioactive substances are being prepared for intravenous administration to human subjects as a part of the work of the contract"
1947: A secret AEC document dated April 17 reads, "It is desired that no document be released which refers to experiments with humans that might have an adverse reaction on public opinion or result in legal suits," revealing that the U.S. government was aware of the health risks its nuclear tests posed to military personnel conducting the tests or nearby civilians
1948: Based on the secret studies performed on Newburgh, N.Y. residents beginning in 1945, Project F researchers publish a report in the August 1948 edition of the Journal of the American Dental Association, detailing fluoride's health dangers. The U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) quickly censors it for "national security" reasons (don't you love having Flouride in your water supply, knowing that it's TOXIC?)
1950 - 1953: The U.S. Army releases chemical clouds over six American and Canadian cities. Residents in Winnipeg, Canada, where a highly toxic chemical called cadmium is dropped, subsequently experience high rates of respiratory illnesses
1950: In order to determine how susceptible an American city could be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of Bacillus globigii bacteria from ships over the San Francisco shoreline. According to monitoring devices situated throughout the city to test the extent of infection, the eight thousand residents of San Francisco inhale five thousand or more bacteria particles, many becoming sick with pneumonia-like symptoms (Goliszek). At least one death is known.
1950: Dr. Joseph Strokes of the University of Pennsylvania infects 200 female prisoners with viral hepatitis to study the disease
1950: Doctors at the Cleveland City Hospital study changes in cerebral blood flow by injecting test subjects with spinal anesthesia, inserting needles in their jugular veins and brachial arteries, tilting their heads down and, after massive blood loss causes paralysis and fainting, measuring their blood pressure. They often perform this experiment multiple times on the same subject
1950: Dr. D. Ewen Cameron, later of MKULTRA infamy due to his 1957 to1964 experiments on Canadians, publishes an article in the British Journal of Physical Medicine, in which he describes experiments that entail forcing schizophrenic patients at Manitoba's Brandon Mental Hospital to lie naked under 15- to 200-watt red lamps for up to eight hours per day. His other experiments include placing mental patients in an electric cage that overheats their internal body temperatures to 103 degrees Fahrenheit, and inducing comas by giving patients large injections of insulin
Yeah, sure....the USA isn't equally capable of committing horrors. Rubbish, of course it is, and the USA does just bad - even worse than Unit 731.
AND THEY'RE STILL CARRYING ON THIS WAY!
{It's quite telling that the Japanese behaviour in Nangking...
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 3:45am}
Equally quite telling that American behaviour in Iraq has been criticised by their OWN ALLIES - and that's NOW. Not 60 years ago. The USA did equally as bad, and IS STILL DOING IT!
You do realise that the USA is in frequent breach of the Geneva Conventions in their use of DU ammunition and cluster bombs, don't you, rama the LITTLE SHIT.
But that's OKAY, apparently to you, because afterall, they're been in breach of the Geneva Convention many times, including WW-2. Slaughtering POWs, deliberately targeting civilian populations, use of banned weapons.
By the way, next time you call me "maruta" or try and pretend that I'm anybody else than who I am - then I'm putting you on IGNORE. and I never bother take anyone off that, so learn some manners.
Haha, I bet you "wood" :-)
Lovelynice, do try to keep up with events. I'm more critical of the US than most other people on this site... if you'd bothered to read my informative article on Unit 731 , you'd know that the US gave Japanese scientists exemption from prosecution in exchange for access to their research.
Really, if you think you can offend me by showing the US up as a violent sanctimonious bully, you're pissing up the wrong tree.
But... exactly how does this exempt the Japanese Army from criticism for its inhuman excesses in WWII??
Take your time now, think about it. And do try to post your reply in one go rather than posting all those retarded multiple entries, eh?
Cheers, DD x
{ Lovelynice, do try to keep up with events....
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 5:57am}
actually you REALLY SHOULD.
{Unit 731 , you'd know that the US gave Japanese scientists ...
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 5:57am}
Yeah, blah, blah, blah...
I ALREADY KNOW.
Everyone in Japan KNOWS Unit 731. There's been books published about it, it's taught about it in schools... ho-hum, big deal. Your attempt to pretend that Japanese people are ignorant on that matter just DIED.
So how much do you know about the horrors committed by your government?
{ But... exactly how does this exempt the Japanese Army from criticism ...
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 5:57am}
when did I say that it did?
{if you think you can offend me by showing the US up ...
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 5:57am}
I don't control whether you are offended or not.
What next, are you going to claim that I have sort of mind-control?
It's upto you whether you get offended, not me.
However, if you want to pretend that Japan did worse, I can easily show equivalent examples of Atrocities committed by ANY ALLIED NATION during WW2 or later.
Don't feign some sort of sanctimonious nonsense as if being non-Japanese makes you morally superior.
and if you can't deal with my multiple comments - bad luck.
Deal with it.
I quite agree, lovelynice. Pretty much every nation will have skeletons in its closet. And yes, the victors get to write the history books.
But I still don't understand why you've decided to defend the actions of Imperial Japan - one of the most openly brutal empires in recent history.
Nobody's blaming modern-day Japanese for the excesses perpetrated by their nation in WWII, just like nobody's blaming ordinary modern-day Germans for the brutality of the Nazis or ordinary modern-day Americans for wiping out the Indians, etc. etc.
But it becomes a different matter when people like you - who weren't alive to witness events - start trying to deny the testimony of victims & eyewitnesses and the actual memoirs of Japanese soldiers.
What's "feel good", issues like the holocaust and the Rape of Nanking or denial? And who's doing the "denial", in spite of mountains of evidence to the contrary?
Also, you didn't allow new ballot choices, for some reason. And the wording of the ones that exist are not only biased but misleading.
{ But I still don't understand why you've decided to defend the actions of Imperial Japan...
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 7:10am}
BOO-BOOH! again!
I'm not defending the actions of any military that committed atrocities.
THEY'RE ALL BAD. Get it yet?
However, I do believe TRUTH IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN BULLSHIT PROPAGANDA
If you can't deal with the TRUTH, then get out of the way because you're only going to get steamrolled.
and stop demonstrating your racist crap everywhere.
{Also, you didn't allow new ballot choices...
by skylab on Sun Dec 10, 06 8:05am}
whinge, whinge, whinge, whinge....
Deal with reality and stop trying to bullshit your way with crap excuses.
There is no middle ground.
We either accept only the historical TRUTH or we accept LIES.
Which is it going to be?
{start trying to deny the testimony of victims & eyewitnesses and the actual memoirs of Japanese soldiers.
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 7:10am}
I'm not.
I notice that you are. Apparently you would rather accept the PROPAGANDA regardless of what the truth might be.
Perhaps instead of trying to bullshit your way around with racist personal attacks and lies about what my opinions are, you should show a little more INTELLIGENCE and deal with debating in a rational and intelligent manner.
Perhaps you can't, because you KNOW as it's obvious to me, and probably becoming obvious to everyone else, that the main reason that none of your little defenders of the OFFICIAL LYING FALSE HISTORY will debate without using emotional bullshit, without using racist epithets, and without using more lies about what I have said, is that YOU can't actually defend LIES when the truth gets in the way.
Perfect example; WHERE'S THE PROOF OF THOSE DIESEL GAS CHAMBERS AND DIESEL GAS MURDER VANS???
You have NONE. None of you do. You just squirm around, make excuses, tell outright lies on occassion, and keep shouting bullshit accusations of "nazi" and "antisemite" because YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE!
You can't defend the IMPOSSIBLE. So you lose.
{ Nobody's blaming modern-day Japanese ....
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 7:10am}
More bullshit.
How many times already have you tried to accuse me (in your typical racist way) of being somehow biased because I'm part Japanese, rather doing what you should do, which is debate the FACTS?
Your own words prove you to be a little lying racist trying to pretend otherwise, and you've used racist personal attacks as you try to avoid dealing with the points that I have made
{the victors get to write the history books...
by ramaDUNG on Sun Dec 10, 06 7:10am}
But they don't get to keep it that way, time always comes along and reveals their lies.
Old Hammurabi built a string of monuments to claim a victory that he never had. For thousands of years people believed those monuments, but now we know better.
False history abounds.
You made a comment before that struck me as rather silly...
{It's a matter of historical record that...
by ramaDUNG on Sat Dec 09, 06 7:46am}
When I was a child, it was taught in school as a matter of "historical record" that the Great Pyramid was built by slaves, now it's known that this is a FALSE CLAIM; in fact the pyramid was built by VOLUNTEERS, and their graffiti is all over the place inside testifying to that fact. They even had trade unions.
It used to be a matter of "historical record" that the Gulf of Tomkin Incident was an attack by North Vietnam, we now that the entire incident was a "beat-up" and that there was no attack.
Making claims about it being a matter of "historical record" is the excuse used by a coward who can't deal with any facts that later come to light which challenge their previous beliefs.
But what's "feel good" about the holocaust?
I only bother with reading accounts of history (conservative or revisionist) if it is not overly-emotionally driven. An account of history of any kind: I expect a clear and structured argument without emotion or anger in the rhetoric.
There are plenty of intellectualist books that debate history that I would read. But also on a whole, I don't care much for internet sources. There is a lot of nonsense on the internet.
{I don't care much for internet sources. There is a lot of nonsense on the internet.
by Socrates on Sun Dec 10, 06 11:24pm}
there is a lot of nonsense EVERYWHERE
including in your newspapers, your news media, in your history books, and in school.
{But what's "feel good" about the holocaust?
by skylab on Sun Dec 10, 06 11:00pm}
WHICH HOLOCAUST?
There have been so many holocausts and acts of genocide throughout history, why the special exception and denial of proper investigation and questioning of just one?
There have been much bigger holocausts, with a lot more evidence and a lot less contradiction in that evidence. Very rarely do the alleged descendants of the victims go around trying desperately to OBSTRUCT EVERY INDEPENDENT INVESTIGATION of their claims - in fact, on every other occassion they are usually trying very hard to get people to thoroughly investigate and get to the TRUTH, not hide from it.
It appears that some people would rather hide behind political correctness, and "feel good" denial of anything that might challenge what their old high school textbooks told them - whether right or wrong.
It probably makes them "feel good" to pretend that their country was the "good guy" in a previous war, and never committed any killing or torturing of POWs. It probably makes them "feel good" to pretend that their country was the "good guy" whose soldiers never committed mass rapes of another country's women. It probably makes them "feel good" to pretend that their country was the "good guy" that never committed any mass slaughter of millions of civilians in the most horrific ways. It probably makes them "feel good" to pretend that their country was the "good guy" and that their enemy during the previous war was so bad that any crimes that their own country committed during the war don't make them as evil.
But I bet it feels awful for some to learn that everything that they were taught was total B U L L S H I T.
Suppose your grandfather killed my grandparents illegally .
It's offensive to deny that your grandfather killed my grandparents, or to deny that your grandfather killed my grandfather only, or to praise that your grandfather killed my grandparents legally.
And it is also offensive to claim that your grandfather raped my grandmother and then killed my grandparents, if that didn't happen.
And it is also offensive to claim that your grandfather killed my grandparents and my parents, if that didn't happen.
And it is also offensive to use the photos of another murder to prove that your grandfather killed my grandparents.
In a nutshell, it is also offensive to fabricate a story granted that it is fact that your grandfather killed my grandparents.
In addition, I assert the following;
It is irrational and anti-democratic -
to oppress the activities in which I try to prove by evidence and arguments, that your grandfather killed my parents and equally as offensive for me to oppress the activities in which you try to prove, by evidence and arguments, that your grandfather didn't kill my grandparents, because maybe what I believe is wrong.
and that goes both ways.
On July 18, 1945, exactly 19 days before the first atomic bomb was dropped on Japan, in his own handwritten diary, Harry S. Truman wrote:
"Discussed Manhattan (it is a success). Decided to tell Stalin about it. Stalin had told P.M. (Churchill) of telegram from Jap emperor asking for peace…"
still think that Japan hadn't already offered surrender?
I believe lots of bad things happened in the US, more than history books want to admit. Couldn't the same be true of Japan as well? Maybe the Japanese version of Lost Cause myth in the USA?
{Couldn't the same be true of Japan as well?
by skylab on Mon Dec 11, 06 9:24am}
Maybe yes, maybe no.
Why is it that you can only accept one side, and yet not be able to defend your POV with facts? Why is it so difficult for you to show the mental flexibility to accept that the history you learnt could be not only wrong, but mostly fabricated?
If my grandfather had killed your grandfather, then why should I allow you to also claim that my grandfather killed your parents too if that wasn't in fact true? Either way it's offensive to continue a lie.
If the Nanking Massacre was only 250,000 and not 400,000, then why continue to defend the lie that it was 400,000? And if we're both wrong, and the massacre never occurred at all and was totally fictional Chinese wartime propaganda (a situation that I find unlikely - but nevertheless not entirely impossible considering how ridiculously contradictory much of the witnesses and evidence are) then we must both be willing to accept that. The same goes if it turns out that it was in fact horribly underestimated...or it turns out that the Massacre was mis-named and actually happened elsewhere but somebody got the names mixed up.
When time shall have softened passion and prejudice, when reason shall have stripped the mask from misrepresentation, then justice, holding evenly her scales, will require much of past censure and praise to change places.
- Justice Radhabinod Pal
(Judgement submitted to the International Military Tribunal for the Far East)
We are not robots. We must question and search for the ultimate truth in all things.
'only 250,000'
only? thats ok then.
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