COMMENTS:
I would rather like a jew than a palestinian. There is no contest. Jews prosper, Palestinians still live in the dark ages and are nuts.
hurricane: Okaaaay, but does that answer the question?
by mojo on Thu Dec 14, 06 5:59am
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Voted : Comment.
You call yourself a "christian" hurricane. So how do you justify slandering the oppressed, and favouring the oppressors? WWJD? NOT THAT! Also, that's a fine way to speak of your fellow Christians, living in the birthplace of Christ.They're deprived of water, human rights and dignity just the same as their Muslim neighbours. You are a charicature of a joke about a troglodyte.
Voted : Comment.
I have nothing more to add beyond Flagrant's comment...Very well stated (however, I reserve the right to address this ballot at a later time), Excellent ballot question Mojo...
Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
Mojo this is a topic I have discussed often. I see no contradiction in being critical of Israel yet not anti-Semitic. You can criticise the US administration without being anti-American. You can dislike pit bulls without hating all dogs. Unfortunately some Zionists label criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism in order to stifle debate.
Well said Flagrant by the way ...
...Mojo...
This is a topic I have discussed often. I see no contradiction in being critical of Israel yet not anti-Semitic. You can criticise the US administration without being anti-American. You can dislike pit bulls without hating all dogs. Unfortunately some Zionists label criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism in order to stifle debate.
by B_P on Thu Dec 14, 06 6:24am
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Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
I feel the same way mojo
^ yes, B_P.
by mojo on Thu Dec 14, 06 6:26am
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Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
I don't see any inconsistency in having both those views.
Yes indeed the palestinian people are getting a raw deal. The Holocaust happened and the evidence to that effect is overwhelming, I do feel however that the Jews have "milked" these events in history to thier own ends for the creation of a jewish state at the expence of others, something which I believe is unacceptable to thier religion if im not mistaken.
Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
A LOT has changed in the past SIXTY YEARS.
It looks to Me like so much has happened since then and a lot more important stuff will happen in the next few years.
Fighting over the forties is fycking futile :)
by Jyl on Thu Dec 14, 06 6:40am
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(fu·tile:
1. serving no useful purpose : completely ineffective
2. occupied with trifles)
by Jyl on Thu Dec 14, 06 6:42am
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Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
There's also nothing contradictory about being pro-Palestinian and pro-Israel. They need to stop killing each other, and peace would benefit both.
I do think it's weird that a few people are still obsessed with jews, though.
Voted : Comment.
Hurricane is a GOYIM HATER!
Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
Hey
One can respect Jews as a people,and admire their struggle and history,but it doesn't mean that if you criticise Israel,you are anti-semetic!
I criticse Israel:
1)For what it has done to Lebanon,the unreasonable bombing and killing it caused
2)For the humiliating checkpoints,transport restrictions,2nd class treatment of Palestinians(even that of Israeli Arabs),blackmailing,IDF excessive and unhumane force.
Jews and Palestinians must live together in peace,both groups deserve a state,really, but with some administrations,they misuse thier power,and when you are against a certain government,it doesn't mean you hate the whole nation!
Salam
Sorry one more thing hehe:
Jews have experienced the bitter feeling of being kicked out of their homes,and living in ghettos/camps; being bullied and blackmailed by non-Jewish authority, being forced to leave their home,getting blamed for everything, being regarded as a *sub-human*..etc, so why can't the Israelis Jews see that their own country is doing this now to others!? How can they be shocked at the holocaust,yet they implement nearly the same actins!
They suffered a tragic holocaust,but can't they see,they are gradually creating a Palestinian holocaust over these years?
Salam
Since you are coming at this with sort of a stereotypical leftist way, I will try to address it that way.
The US is NOT an unquestioning ally of Israel. The vast majority of Israelis view it as being quite the opposite. They see it as that they cannot do anything (including national security matters) without first asking the US permission. The issue with Hezbollah in Lebanon is a good example. Israel stopped when the US said so and would have continued (to likely victory) if the US said to or they would have stopped sooner if the US said to. Israel often views itself as having to do the work that the US doesn't have the balls to do. This whole thing about Israel "controlling" the US government is just a simple reworking of the old canard of Jews controlling everything.
The vast majority of Jews/Israelis would like to see the palestinians have their own state as was the original intent back in 1947. However, they do not want to do this at the price of security. The PLO (this may have changed) and Hamas have had in their charter/constitution the destruction of Israel. This might make Israel a little leery of negotiating, you think? Mahmoud Abbas (PLO leader) realizes that the way for the PLO to gain statehood is for the situation to be one where Israel feels secure. When Israel feels secure, the palestinians will feel and be secure and have their own state. Israel has always been willing to negotiate.
Contrary to what many may think, Jews/Israelis are quite sympathetic to the situation that the palestinians are in. They would like nothing more to have peace, security and prosperity for both. (Whats so funny about peace, love and understanding??) However, the security of your own country has to come first. Israel and many in the west (non-Jews) are sickened by the vast corruption by the leadership of the PLO and others. People live in despicable conditions while people like Arafat and his cronies grew rich (to the tune of billions) - look it up. This, not hatred of Israel was the main reason Hamas won the last election against the PLO.
Lastly, you can like Jews and even Israel and disagree with many of Israel's policies. You would be in the company of many Israelis and Jews.
Not contradictory at all, pretty much how I feel as well
^ same here. that's how i feel.
Fiddle..
"The issue with Hezbollah in Lebanon is a good example. Israel stopped when the US said so and would have continued (to likely victory)..."
Likely victory? How do you work that out? The only victory Israel could have achieved against the Hezbollah was if they had killed every last person in Lebanon.
Was that what they were going for?
by B_P on Thu Dec 14, 06 8:19am
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Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
hurricane - ha ha ha - that's a classic first comment. I commend you
flagrant - yes yes yes
"Israel and many in the west (non-Jews) are sickened by the vast corruption by the leadership of the PLO and others."
^This is true but the same applies to Israel. Not many are aware of how corrupt their political system is.
Fiddle:
"Since you are coming at this with sort of a stereotypical leftist way, I will try to address it that way."
Was that directed at me? I was trying to be as impartial as possible.
Your last statement is close to what I was getting at. My sister is married to a Jew and he, to quote you again, "disagrees with many of Israel's policies." (And he's a nice guy, who lost most of his older relatives in the Holocaust.)
by mojo on Thu Dec 14, 06 9:21am
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 oy vey!!!
Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
Nope. I'm in the same line of thought.
"that the U.S. should not be such an unquestioning ally of Israel?"
Sorry mojo but I felt that statement was not impartial, but stereotypical leftist view. I hear that from leftists all the time. The US most certainly questions Israel on the actions they take and also the US strongly pressures Israel to take the actions that the US wants them to do. The US is their strongest ally, Israel isn't going to take actions that the US will strongly disagree with if at all possible. That is just simple logic. Why piss off one of their few friends?
Kev, you make a good point.
Contrary to what many think, I don't unquestionably support Israel on everything. Neither does yosi (one of B&W's Israeli members).
Diddle, noboby here seems to agree with your lies, misdirection, or obfuscations. Why don't you go back to LGF hatesite from whence you came? Oh, except Hurricane. Hurricane and you seem to be of the same mind. tells me something....
FiddleFaddle, I'm still troubled by your labeling me a 'leftist,' which is seemingly a pejorative term in this context.
Don't labels group people into black and white categories? Don't they alienate groups? Isn't that something we need to avoid, whatever religion/culture we are from?
by mojo on Thu Dec 14, 06 11:44am
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Mojo Isreal is not the opressor. They just defend themselves. I have always said I do not like Muslims or Palestine. Jordan even kicked them out of their country. No one likes them. Flagrantviolator you have no clue what you are talking about. The jews belong in Isreal where Christ was born. They are Gods chosen people and the land is for them. You are obvious a jew hater at least I am upfront on who I can not stand. You on the other hand can not admit it.
Beelelzabubba you hate every one who is not Black. Just own up to it.
 Fight the power, my bruthah!
I didn't call you a leftist. I labeled that phrase as such. Let me ask you these questions:
1. Why is the US such an unquestioning ally of the UK? The US didn't really do much about the violence in Northern Ireland.
2. Why is the US such an unquestioning ally of South Korea? Especially considering the under Mr. Humanitarian Jimmy Carter, the US ok'd the use of the South Korean military to put down demonstrations? This resulted in the Kwangju massacre among other things. Hey, it was more important to put down those commies.
3. Why is the UK such an unquestioning ally of the US? They even went to war with Iraq with us. Its so bad that people call Tony Blair George W. Bush's poodle.
4. Why is the US such an unquestioning ally of Taiwan which for most of its existence wasn't even a democracy? Why does the US still support with lots of weapons a "country" that few others recognize?
Why do people only use the phrase "unquestioning ally" in reference to Israel? The US doesn't even have a military base there. They aren't parties to some military treaty like NATO. They aren't parties to some massive intelligence operation like ECHELON.
Why did the US unquestionably support the Shah of Iran? Here's Mr Humanitarian Jimmy Carter on the Shah: "Iran is an island of stability in one of the more troubled areas of the world. This is a great tribute to you, Your Majesty, and to your leadership and to the respect, admiration and love which your people give to you. There is no leader in the world for whom I feel such deep gratitude and personal friendship as the Shah."
I can point to dozens of examples of the US being unquestioning of those it considered to be an ally. As long as you aren't communist or pro-terrorist, we won't criticize you.
You tell me. Why does the US consistently look the other way (at a minimum) when those countries deemed to be an "ally" brutally repress their own people. The US says little if anything about those things. The US certainly challenges Israel on things. They want Israel to survive as they do with other countries they consider to be an ally.
"unquestioning ally" is a pejorative term in this context. It presupposes a condition that doesn't exist.
I guess I should have parsed out my wording more carefully? What would have passed muster?
by mojo on Thu Dec 14, 06 2:34pm
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mojo, I don't think you could've worded it any finer. Some subjects just drag out humanity at its best, worst and most indifferent.
hurricane that's fucked up stuff to say about palestinians. do you know them all? how do you knwo there aren't palestinian people on this site and how do you know some people aren't related to one? show some class.
secondly, your line about god's chosen people shows your ignorance of biblical facts. learn some tact and grace.
Oh, he knows we're here, alright, he's just an offensive ass-toker. Probably DiddleCattle, or most likely, herzog. Both fucktards to the nth degree. Cheers, Kev, Youssef
Voted : No, it sounds perfectly reasonable.
Absolutely not. Jews are cool. Israel is NOT.
The Holocaust has been milked for all its worth by Zionists to fill their own pockets whilst screwing over Jewish people (the banks who funded Hitler were under the control of Zionists) and now Israel is a base for terrorists.
Palestinians are certainly getting a raw deal at the hands of Zionism and the US. (Israel is the 51st Stae of the USA).
Jewish people deserve better than the Judeo-Nazism of the Zionist State of Israel.
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