COMMENTS:
The so-called "Miracle 19". Continued from RELIGION ballot #28834, "Give ONE specific Qur'an/Koran verse that teaches LOVE towards INFIDELS/NON-MUSLIM. by Stranger7800.
Some anomalies in Khalifa's method.
1) Traditionally, in Islam the consensus of the reciters has had greater authority than any particular written text. Khalifa generally used the received text of the Quran known as Hafs, written in the Egyptian style. There are other received texts, which differ in certain respects from the text he used. Warsh (another common version), differs with Hafs in spelling. Though both versions are same in meaning when it comes to counting words and letters both are "different" Qurans.
He altered the Quran to fit into his scheme. (He claims he restored it to its original). If we define the "Quran" to mean the 'Uthmanic text as accepted today, he changed some verses based on pronunciation and Tashkent Quran.
(bastatan in 7:69 and Nuwn in Sura 68) but he has not incorporated all other variations from the text. Then the question is why only two variations were adopted and why not others?)
He eliminated the last two verses of Sura 9.
As far as combination of Sura and verse numbers coming to multiples of 19, it should be understood that the division of verses in the Quran is based on five different systems:
the Kufah system, following the tradition of Ali; the Basra system, following Mohammed's companion Asim ibn Hajjaj; the Shami system of Syria used by Mohammed's companion Abdu'lla-h ibn Umar; the Makkah system and the Madinah system.
This makes it obvious that Mohammed did not undertake the division into verses. As far as the ordering of the Suras is concerned this was done by Khalif Uthman (Information from "Dictionary of Islam", pages 489-492).
The division of verses or ordering of Suras, which form the "Structure" of Quran was not originally there but introduced later. So any miracle nature attributed involving the number of Suras or verses is not part of Quran. What exactly is being counted? Just words or meaning of the words? Some times only words were counted irrespective of their meaning. Wherever it is not adding up, same word is not counted basing that it was used in a different meaning.
Some times all grammatical forms of the words were considered. Some times not. For example in considering singular, dual, and plural forms of a word the criteria appears to be multiple of 19.
There are other features of Quran which are multiples of 7, 11 etc. any one with a lot of time to waste can come up with any number of "features" from any book which are multiples of any number. I have seen a document in circulation on the Internet showing the "Mathematical" patterns in the document "The Declaration of Independence" of the USA and "predicting" the future events from the pattern. Obviously it was floated for fun just to show how easy it is to fool people with "mathematical" patterns.
A last word about "Patterns" in poetry. I do not know much about Arabic poetry, but I am aware of meter in some of the Indian languages, where each line of a verse has certain fixed number of letters. Each type of poem has fixed letters in it. Few years ago, when I visited south India, I personally observed a performance by a poet what is called as "Sathavadhanam". It is a well-known art form (a kind of competition between poets) I feel it is relevant to mention it in this context. The main poet is called an "Avadhani". He competes with a hundred other poets. On a stage the hundred poets sitting ready to pose Questions or riddles to the Avadhani. Each one will ask a question and specifies in which poetic form he wants the answer. Very often the questioner requests that the answer should contain in a particular type of poem (number of letters are fixed) and it should contain certain words or not to containing certain words or letters or combination of letters. They specify all odd combinations and the most difficult questions. As soon as the questioner finished his request the Avadhani is ready with the answer by composing a poem instantly without using any pen and paper and moves on to the next questioner. After listening hundred different questions from these hundred people Avadhani starts answering by reciting poems in the form requested by the questioner. He answers to all the questions in the order it was asked. He does not note down the questions. Apart from this the Avadhani should keep track of the count of bells that were rung time to time to distract him. I was told that this kind of art is performed by many poets and there are innumerable poets who perform this at a smaller scale with 8 questioners, which is popularly known as "Astavadhanam". It is a matter of seconds for this kind Avadhanis to compose any poem with any specification and style. But no one considers them as miracle. It is their creativity coupled with years of practice and concentration. I wonder what the Avadhanis say if asked to "produce a Sura like it.." Fortunately these Avadhanis do not know Arabic. Other wise "God" knows how many "miracle" Suras would have been produced!
Also, I believe some Christians have come with their own version of the mathematical miracle of the Bible.
I see you are a disgusting racist Orlando, aren't you. Or should I say Guest084? I thought you committed suicide.
Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism. In the Quran, God has said:
God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (Quran, 60:8)
The Prophet Muhammad used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,1 and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}2 And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}3
Also, the Prophet Muhammad has forbidden punishment with fire.4
He once listed murder as the second of the major sins,5 and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.6}7
Muslims are even encouraged to be kind to animals and are forbidden to hurt them. Once the Prophet Muhammad said: {A woman was punished because she imprisoned a cat until it died. On account of this, she was doomed to Hell. While she imprisoned it, she did not give the cat food or drink, nor did she free it to eat the insects of the earth.}8
He also said that a man gave a very thirsty dog a drink, so God forgave his sins for this action. The Prophet was asked, “Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?” He said: {There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human.}9
Additionally, while taking the life of an animal for food, Muslims are commanded to do so in a manner that causes the least amount of fright and suffering possible. The Prophet Muhammad said: {When you slaughter an animal, do so in the best way. One should sharpen his knife to reduce the suffering of the animal.}10
In light of these and other Islamic texts, the act of inciting terror in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men, women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to Islam and the Muslims. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the vast majority have nothing to do with the violent events some have associated with Muslims. If an individual Muslim were to commit an act of terrorism, this person would be guilty of violating the laws of Islam.
We all know that Allah tell muslims to wipe all infidels from the face of Earth.
Get outta there you fucking islamic propagandist.
Quote of the Qu'ran of the day; Just to refresh people's mind:
"We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. Their habitation is the Fire, and hapless the abode of the wrong-doers. "
Another one:
"Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward. "
No... It doesn't permit terrorism. We all believe you. :D
To Guest_84b2f
Look Osama is one of millions muslim, so can we say that all muslems like him..
for example: what happeing in iraq and what happend from the photos for American fighter to the Iraqes in Jain that Bush say it difficult for him to see the photo, Can e say all american are like them.. no for sure
what Hitler did can we say all Jermany like him .. no for sure..
in all society, some people go opisit for what they learned, opiste for their religion and tradition.. we can judge all others from one perosn..
Look Guest_84b2f, in chirstany religion not all people follow it, so same for islam but in isalm thier are few, not all of them follow what ALLA says. if they follow their life will be better. our religion is begining and end in peace. it doesn't force any body to be muslim. in addition, ALLA tell us to treat all of other people in good way.
i will give u example for that,
46 - And dispute ye not with the people of the Book, except with means better (Than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, We believe in the Revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; our God and your God is One; and it is to Him We bow (in Islam).
Say: O people of the book come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, lord and patrons other than God. if then they turn back, say ye: bear witness that we (at last) are Muslims (bowing to God's will)
i aploigise for that long writting,
this is the final one, that ALLA say he doesn't force any body to go in islam,
ALLA says:" 256 - Let there be no compulsion in religion: truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in God hath grasped the most trustworthy hand hold, never breaks. and God heareth and knoweth all things"
as i told u not all muslim follow the quran as not all people same and follow the good things
i aplogize, iam not agood writtin english but i try my best, :) Peace with u all
Many terrorists groups have used the name Islam to promote their cause and this gave the West a chance to attack Islam and label the Muslims as terrorists. The West on the other hand deliberately ignores labeling terrorists as Christians or Jewish when they are.
Terrorism as an act of violence has been committed by people from all religious and political backgrounds. Christian terrorists ( e.g. Bosnia, Ireland, Nazi) and Jewish terrorists (e.g. Israel, Palestine and Lebanon) for example used their religious beliefs to claim legitimacy for the violence and terrorism they commit. They killed thousands of women and children and innocent young men for no more than terrorizing the innocents.
The enemies of Islam however, have been trying to make the word terrorists and terrorism synonymous to Islam (Submission) in an ongoing effort to slander Islam and the Muslims We have to remember whenever we see any terrorist activities to blame the people and not to blame the religion. Not everyone who calls himself a Muslim is a Muslim .We believe that time has come for the media to respect Islam, and not to mix between what Islam stands for and what some Muslims do.
To The_Truth, I suggest you go to search ballot and simply type the word "teaches".
I challenge you to answer the question on my ballot: GIVE ONE SPECIFIC QUR'AN VERSE THAT TEACHES LOVE TOWARDS UNBELIEVERS or INFIDELS.
Many of your Muslim brothers have tried to answer it, but repeatedly failed miserably. Why? Because your religion, Islam, does NOT teach you Muslims to love any unbelievers. In fact, you're forbidden to accept Jews/Christians as your friend. And I quote:
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship will become one of their number. Allah does not guide the wrongdoers.
-->>
Sura 47:4-6
"Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers (in fight), smite them at their necks. At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly on them. Thereafter is the time for either generosity or ransom until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are ye commanded, but if it had been God's will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them Himself. But He lets you fight in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, He will never let their deeds be lost. Soon will He guide them and improve their condition, and admit them to the Garden "
What does this tell you about your religion? How do you justify these teachings? Why does your Allah ONLY love the Muslims and NOT any other people? Is God really that intolerant and hateful? Seems like your Allah is.
Religion isnt the problem people are, people just use there religion as an excuss for there actions.
by seon on Wed May 05, 04 7:35am
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I'm sick of 4c054's whining he needs to stop eating camel shit and making suicide vbomb vests long enough to take a breath between ranting on about the poor peaceful islamic terrorists!
I know your tv reception in your AFGHAN cave is bad but somehow it's good enough for you to watch AL JAZEERA broadcasts 24/7!
I work for the American anti islamic propaganda authority Mr.Terrorist were not going to let only one side of the coin be revealed to the world!
Now go load your dynamite into your van your late for a suicide attack!
Hey Guest_4c054 if you think your so good why dont you have the guts to be a regristerd user?
by seon on Thu May 06, 04 2:23am
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Besuz he be dum licke me!
"Many terrorists groups have used the name Islam to promote their cause and this gave the West a chance to attack Islam and label the Muslims as terrorists. The West on the other hand deliberately ignores labeling terrorists as Christians or Jewish when they are."
by The_Truth on May 01, 2004
Firstly, Islamic terrorists publicly admit that they do what they do because they are following the teachings of Quran.
Secondly, the quranic verses (teachings) can be clearly found that support this.
Lastly, their are no equivalent scriptures in the doctrines of the other primary religions that instruct its faithful follers to commit acts of violent terrorism against others. If a Christian commits an act of violence, he does so on his own volition, not because he is following the teachings of his Bible. He is in fact going against his Christian faith. So take your lies somewhere else!
islamic terrorism is nothing but the latest stage in a 1400 year war between islam and everyoen else, its a war that wont end till we are all killed, or till the muslims are forced back into the deserts of arabia from whence they came, and mecca is burnt to the ground
eeeerrrrr this is a hard one.
god... think about it
I think it is worse than ignorance. Some of these hate mongers know exactly what they are doing.
Americans: If you think that there will soon be a draft then make sure that you take on board the views of Jinn the Kafir, yosi and herzog. This mindset will help you slaughter thousands while you're overseas.
Tell that to AIPAC.
Judaism is the root of world unrest! Bolshevism, Zionism are Judaism through and through. The horrors and human sufferings incited by the Judaism are hard to describe!
The ideology of Talmudic Judaism:
1) Jews are the God chosen people. Only Jews are human beings.
2)All Gentiles (non-Jews) are not human beings, but two legged animals. God created Gentiles to be the slaves of Jews.
3) God gives the Chosen (Jews) the divine rights to take and rule over all Gentile nations in the world. So it is ROB and RULE! RULE and ROB!
Goddam Scientologists
nationalism with its attendant Scientific Materialism is the most insidious religion the world will see
Terrorists are actually INTERNATIONAL GUERRILLAS and their cells are actually GANGS!
The answer is obvious.
Well Israel is a terrorist state which has contributed to the wholesale murder of over 1 million Iraqis due to sanctions, war, and subjugation.
gospelcom.net/rbc/rtb/
Go here
Jew= hate of the non believers
Nearly every "so-called" Muslim nation is currently led by those who were chosen by "the powers that be" (appointed leaders) ever since the British-French Middle East "treaties" (dividing up the conquered lands) of WWI, except for Iran and Sudan which are also the only two Middle Eastern nations that have expelled all former Masonic Lodges.
This is why the Iranian Masonic Lodge and their Grand Master have been using California (especially Los Angeles) as their exile HQ... all connected to "Baby Shah" and his Washington City Masonic backers in Virginia.
Also interesting is how many LA and DC exiled Iranian Lodge Masons are gathering in Dubai right now. They have been told by Washington City Masonic Neo-Cons that they will have Iran back in their political control sometime after July 15.
Expect "coalition" troops to start vacating IraQ after July 1 and regroup in Kuwait, Oman, Saudi, and Israel for the next phase of operations where they will be joined by new military backing from Saudi (British Masons) and Israel (Illuminati). The objective of Phase II is the Masonic re-taking and control of IraN.
If Iran falls to a forced takeover by Masonic-Illuminati forces again, Sudan will fall with it.
by cretin_slap on Jul 14, 2004
People who actually happen to be awake might have noticed that Iyad Allawi lived in Britain for 30 years and retians to this day his dual British citizenship.
There are 18 conflicts on the Earth right now. 18 of them are Islam related.
There are 34 conflicts raging around the world (if you count Northern Ireland) and 33 of them involve ragheads.
by Guest_2146d on Sep 20, 2004
Really? Since when did the Shining Path in Peru become muslims? They've always been communists haven't they? Besides which, there are currently 100 wars and civil wars going on around the globe, so I guess you must've been very selective about which 34 conflicts that you're referring to. What about the other 66 conflicts?
by Guest_47bf8 on Sep 26, 2004
God! I know, Freepers are fucking assholes! Fucking idiots can go to hell!
by aya on Thu Dec 16, 04 9:51pm
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zionests
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