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COMMENTS:
Its disgusting isn't it
well, here is my opinion as a liberal capitalist.
I believe in capitalism. It works. it motivates people to strive to work harder and smarter. Those people you refer to are working hard for pennies but at the same time, they live in dormitories that the companies provide, and the products they buy in their country is lot cheaper. You can probably sustain a family with the salary they provide. And what you claim re: New York is simply not true. If someone is dumb enough to accept that type of pay, instead of applying at macdonalds to get minimum wage, or just cut people's lawn for money, then it's their problem. One thing wonderful about capitalism is that there is a free competition by the employers as well, and as long as they don't hold a gun to their heads (slavery) they are free to seek out better wages.
Better solution would be to give these people a better option, by letting free competition take place between countries, rather than unionzation which is one step away from communism. I don't have anything against communism mind you, as long as it's perfect communism where party leaders eat and live as the workers do. but you know that can't happen. it's human nature.
by BCD on Thu Mar 17, 05 3:35am
[+]
Depends. If the price is right I'll go all out. People should be payed what they're worth. And of course those nations aren't even close to being capitalist. Capitalism means the government doesn't regulate or interfere in the markets at all and people/businesses can make whatever deals they wish.
I agree with BCD on the New York issue. The people in those sweat shops no doubt are illegal immigrants, otherwise, they would do as BCD said and get a legal job paying at least minimum wage. I would also venture to say that workers in those other countries are forced to work in those circumstances becauses they don't live in a capitalist system. If they did, there would be more competition and better paying jobs. So I am turning your question around, does the lack of capitalism cause poor working conditions and poor pay for workers in other countries, and if instilling capitalism in those countries would improve peoples lives, would you support it then?
BCD: But it is free for employees only as long as options exist. If employers collude to diminish standards, workers soon find themselves with limited ... or non-existant ... choices.
Remember that the Company Store concept of the early US was still part of Capitalism. When people/ groups have unfettered control over the means of Income, they have Power.
cathexis yes I agree. The type of collusion you describe should NOT happen in a ideal free economy. We should be sending more CEO's to jail, and prosecute that type of crimes fully.
by BCD on Thu Mar 17, 05 8:39am
[+]
What you going to say next BCD? That slavery works? Because the get to live in huts and are much better of here than being stuck in africa? So your ok with the idea of working 14 hours and 7 daus. Am I not mistaken but you couldn`t hack 40 hours 5 days a week. The dumn new yorkers probably dont have the right paperwork to work in mcdonalds and if you think thats a solution anyway then capitalism only works if you can accept that.
Thc it doesnt matter that these countries arent capitalist Nike do it because it makes them more money irrespective of the countries involved! slave labour is still slave labour. I would like to point out that steel hamster is underestimating the problem many of these "women" are as young as 8 years old. There are ecamples of the opposite. The basra oil union is a self contained oil union in iraq. it has fought for better wages for its members and succeded brilliantly. It is now under threat from the occupation of iraq. It could disappear over night if they dont have support and they cant `disappear` if the rest of the world is aware. If this union, however, does disappear then the invasion of iraq will be another example of the failure of capitalism. and the whole point of being there will be gone. we wont have liberated them we`ll have signed their death warrant. people in `free` countries dont like to think realisticly of how bad it is because it stops them thinking nice happy uncomplicated thoughts. The irony is this is the price of that freedom. we are living of the backs of others. parasites. we should be ashamed of ourselves. not seek to quantify why its ok. There wages are not enough to feed a family not even close. There are many ways to help the situation if you put your minds to it. dont buy nike for a start. switch to alternative produce. fair trade is a good example. it may be slighly more expensive but hey how much is your conscience worth?
Conservatives love to promote the mythical ideal of pure capitalism as creating an economic utopia. Capitalism is the reason those sweatshops exist. The purer the capitalism, the uglier the abuses. Lack of government intervention is what allows that kind of wage-slave conditions to thrive. In the US, it was only AFTER the government stepped in that child labor and safety issues were addressed. During the worst years before government intervention, 50,000 Americans per year were dying in industrial accidents. But get ready, those conditions are coming back to the US in a big way. With globalization, wages and working conditions are in a race to the bottom and American conservatives have conned the rubes into believing that everything that will turn them into third wage slaves will, in fact, make them prosperous and healthy--rich, even.
unionzation which is one step away from communism.
Unions are what protect your rights, or would you rather be exploited?
by aya on Thu Mar 17, 05 10:08am
[+]
Mobsie, I made the comment about sweat shops being a result of a non-capitalistic society. You missed my point entirely. I know we are capitalists, however, if those countries in which the corporations set up the sweat shops were in were capitalist nations, then their citizens wouldn't be working in the sweat shops, they would be making decent wages because competition good jobs would be abundent. And yes, the illegal immigrants working in the sweatshops don't fall under our protection system because they are here illegally.
Please excuse my above typos.
Please don't misunderstand me, I do not think sweat shops are right or appropriate, however, I place the blame where the blame is due. Part of it is on the coporations that exploit them, but some responsibility lies with the countries that have the shops. Why can't these people find better jobs than that? Obviously something is missing in their economic systems.
ceeejjj that was aimed at bcd (lcd) not you
Conservatives only talk about Capitalism they neither support nor understand the real system. They wouldn't be subsidizing their buddies if they did. Governments interfering with the economy is the reason those sweatshops exist.
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