COMMENTS:
Affimative action is a positive for some while being a negative for many. Whatever happened to equality? This is government sanctioned racism.
There really is no arguing with someone so far to the right as Herzog, he truly believes he and his 'race' are getting a raw deal.
The real question should be, would he swap places with a non white?
I seriously doubt it.
Fortunately, herzog, these aren't the only two options.
The real enemy is those who constantly put the workers at odds with each other,and until they realise that simple fact,the futility of Herzog and co's argument will ever be played out.
Im sure theres a job waiting for you when you grow up Robin, they will always need crew members at McDonalds.
Just repeat the phrase 'Would you like fries with that', and you are bound to succeed
It seems to me that affirmative action was implemented for the right reasons (i.e., to correct the wrongs of the past). Ultimately, it became a source of reverse discrimination. I think it accomplished some good in the world, and I believe it is time to find out if we can live without it. No one should ever be denied a job because of the color of their skin, and no one should ever get a job because of the color of their skin.
Now, if we can accomplish this without official interference, then we're there. It certainly remains possible that we will have to tinker with the rules about this for a while to come. Unless we are naive enough to believe that racism is dead in America.
One short observation:Language like "silver platter," "on the back of Blacks" etc. are affect-laden and might tend to skew a fair response to you question.
Still, good ballot.
Unfortunately, as you have seen from some of the comments, racism is alive and well, no matter how it is dressed up.
I wonder which of his many fundamental inadequacies has led herzog to promote racial hatred on the Internet?
As usual, we get the bickering and name calling form BOTH sides. That weakens any argument right there alone. Now, Beelzebubba and griffon, whom I beleive are both black, have concerns with the issue as well. Doesnt that tell u something?
_Beelze is white.
By the way, I support racial equality 100%, we are all humans. However, I do not believe there is a significant need for affirmative action any longer. That is the dividing line. Some believe it is still needed while others don't. I happen to think that, except in a few cases, since nothing is absolute, it is no longer needed.
If everything in my life had been handed to me on a silver platter, I doubt I would have to work.
I think the question is based on some faulty assumptions. First, in college admissions, applicants are generally selected not just by test score but by a variety of things including: work experience, other life experience and some times other items related to diversity. This is done with the theory that a diverse student body will be positive for all and that credit for life and work experience is important.
I know from my work experience, that companies sometimes find it difficult to hire minority applicants until the threat of a lawsuit is present. Then, all of a sudden, qualified applicants are found. In this case, which is unfortunately common, a policy of affirmative action can help prevent this from occuring.
^But wont the companies who hire based on race be weeded out by competitive forces? In other words, wont the companies hiring the more qualified employeed, regardless of race, out-compete those who do not?
I love this response. When you ask people who support AA to put their job where their mouth is they get very indignant. I'm guessing the answer most would give, if they were being honest is "no I only want it to affect other people".
Cath: if there were an infinite number of jobs then there would be more options. But there aren't, so when you hire one person for a job that means you aren't hiring someone else. And if you hire that person because of some quota system that means another equally or even more qualified person is losing his potential job. This is exactly what I have outlined in the ballot.
So steel, I take it you aren't going to give your job to a more deserving minority? Fine, but just so you know it you're helping to carry out the white patriarchal oppression of western society. You should be ashamed, think of all the advantages you've had because of your race and sex. Why not give some of those to an unfortunate black woman?
I would like those who support affirmative action to please address my previous comment. I welcome all arguments for or against it.
I love how the people who complain about outsourcing also complain that companies hire only white men. Think about it rationally, you can't have both. If CEOs only cared about hiring white men why would they fire all those white guys and ship jobs overseas for brown women and children to take? And if they only care about making money why would they go out of their way to hire whites, when there are (as we're told) plenty of more qualified minorities out there looking for jobs? Logically it has to be either one or the other, can't be both. So make up your minds.
It's funny that herzog gets called a racist for standing against a policy that promotes the use of race in making hiring and promotion decisions.
Does anyone else get the feeling that Herzog and his supporters just dont get it?
He continually tries to deflect his engrained prejudices, by saying ludicrous things like, WORKERS, GIVE UP YOUR JOBS TO OTHER WORKERS.. never mind that these words come straight out of the mouths of the very people who seek to suppress and oppress the very class, the vast majority of us belong to.
Dont be fooled by his polemic, he is either a willing tool of the elite or doesnt know any better.
^Because he has a different opinion than you? With all due respect, that seems a little narrowminded.
Steel is extremely narrow minded, look at his personal attacks against anyone who doesn't follow his strict socialist views. Any such person is automatically declared 'the enemy' and anything they say is 'propaganda'. This is essentially why steel will never learn anything that contradicts his own prejudices.
Then you obviously have not read his comments, how do you argue with someone who believes the majority of people are little more than chattel to be used by the rich elite?
I have given him lots of different open minded opinions, but its seems that narrow views seem the only way to communicate with him.
"Steel is extremely narrow minded, look at his personal attacks against anyone who doesn't follow his strict socialist views."
". . . someone who believes the majority of people are little more than chattel to be used by the rich elite?"
I rest my case.
Anyone who thinks affirmative action is NOT racist is quite frankly brainwashed, deluded or simply thick as an elephants baby gravy
Herzog believes that saying something automatically makes it true.
Im afraid that in the real world it doesnt work that way.
Saying 'I rest my case' are the words of those who have no defense to make.
No, herzog, you are framing an artificial situation to try and gain credence for a position of self interest without admitting it.
You are attempting to use an individual's perpspective to justify retaining a system of privilege.
Still, this shows a lot about your perspective of the situation. It seems that you feel you are scrabbling for survival and want every advantage you can get, devil take the hindmost.
Good thing you haven't gotten your way, herzog, or that is the environment in which we'd be in.
Cathexis
The situation may be artificial, but the fact that you would NOT be given the choice the ballot proposes, whether you supported affirmative action or not, and the fact that you will only be put in this situation if you are white, both smack of anti- white racism. From the individuals point of view who gives a SHIT whether affirmative action will promote racial equality in the workplace? All they know is that they have lost their job because they are white, pure and simple. That is racism. Racism racism racism.
Cath: how is it an artifical situation? Would you agree that there are a finite number of jobs available? I should hope so. And would you also agree that when one person gets a job that the other applicants don't? Again, I should hope so as this is simply common sense. So when the government intervenes and dictates that a certain portion of this finite number of jobs available will go to people of the right skin color doesn't that mean that others, white men, are losing potential jobs because of government instituted racism? I don't see how you could believe otherwise. Either there are an infinite number of jobs, so there would be no need for AA as everyone would be able to get a job. Or, AA deprives certain people of employment in favor of others based on superficial traits.
I'll give up my job to a minority just as soon as war-supporting American conservatives take a position with the military and volunteer for Iraq.
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