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result #72369 - COULD TAOISM BE APPLIED TO INTERNATIONAL POLITICS?

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political :

COULD TAOISM BE APPLIED TO INTERNATIONAL POLITICS?


[+] serious ballot by EUROTOPIA
created Wed Apr 27, 05
I will provide several quotes from the Tao Te Ching (By Lao Tzu) and I would like your opinions on them. Is Taoism practical to International politics?

Yes <1%
No <1%

Ballot #72369: has 24 total votes.
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COMMENTS:
“Thus the Sage rules by stilling minds and opening hearts, filling empty bellies and strengthening bones. He shows people how to be simple and live without desires.” (From Verse 3)

“The best way to live is to be like water, for water benefits all things and goes against none of them. It provides for all people and even cleanses those places a man is loath to go. In this way it is just like Tao.” (From Verse 8)

“As you love the people and rule the state, be free of self-interest. Remain as steadfast as a mother bird who sits with her nest. As your wisdom reaches the four corners of the world, can you keep the innocence of a beginner?” (From Verse 10)

“The great ruler speaks little and his words are priceless. He works without self-interest and leaves no trace. When all is finished, the people say: “It happened by itself.” (From Verse 17)

“Those who rule in accordance with Tao do not use force against the world. For that which is forced is likely to return. Where armies settle, Nature offers nothing but briars and thorns. After a great battle has been fought, the land is cursed, the crops fail, and the Earth is stripped of its motherhood. A knower of the Absolute Truth does what is called for then stops. He uses his strength but does not force things. In the same way: complete your task, seek no reward, and make no claims. Without faltering fully choose what you must do. This is to live without forcing, to overcome without conquering. Things that gain a place by force will flourish for a time but then fade away. They are not in keeping with Tao. Whatever is not in keeping with Tao will come to an early end.” (Verse 30)

“Contentment alone is enough. Indeed, the bliss of eternity can be found in your contentment.” (From Verse 46)

“See how magnificent the courts have become… Food and drink overflow, wealth and finery are abound. Yet, in the shadow of all this splendor the fields grow barren, the granaries are all but empty. I say this pomp at the expense of others is like the boasting of thieves after a looting. Surely it is contrary to Tao. Surely it cuts against the grain of the whole nation.” (From Verse 53)

“When the ruler knows his own heart the people are simple and pure. When he meddles with their lives they become restless and disturbed.” (From Verse 58)

“Why do the hundred rivers turn and rush towards the sea? Because it naturally stays below them. He who wishes to rule over the people must speak as if below them. He who wishes to lead the people must walk as if behind them. He should rule over the people but not weigh them down. He must lead the people but not block their way. The Sage stays low so the world never tires of exalting him. He remains a servant to the world, so the world never tires of making him its King.” (Verse 66)

“I have three treasures that I cherish and hold dear: the first is love, the second is moderation, the third is humility. With love one is fearless. With moderation one is abundant. With humility one can fill the highest position. Now if one is fearless but has no love, abundant but has no moderation, rises up but has no humility- Surely he is doomed.” (From Verse 67)

“Why are the people starving? Because their grain is being eaten up by taxes. That’s why they’re starving. Why are the people rebellious? Because those above them meddle with their lives. That’s why they’re rebellious. Why do people regard death so lightly? Because they are so involved with their own living. That’s why they regard death so lightly.” (From Verse 75)

“The essence of my teaching is this: See with original purity, embrace with original simplicity, reduce what you have, decrease what you want.” (From Verse 19)

by EUROTOPIA on Wed Apr 27, 05 1:17pm [+]

... that's probably enough for now (even though there are so many more I would like to give).
by EUROTOPIA on Wed Apr 27, 05 1:19pm [+]

My answer is yes, it is very practical.
by EUROTOPIA on Wed Apr 27, 05 1:22pm [+]

These are fine quotes, espousing admirable values. They would certainly be useful in bringing a more peaceful world into being. So, what's the problem: A too-narrow definition of "good." Most folks scale down "good" to themselves and their families. This produces most of the evil in the world. If my first priority is to exalt self over others, then I am likely to find many opportunities to take from the majority and apply it to me and my family, no? Yes, well.

In order to legitimize any form of aggression whatsoever, the larger picture, the world, must be blotted out in the perpetrator's mind, or he/she simply could not do evil.

We all define ourselves as "generally good, and all our actions must conform to some definition of "good." Even criminals justify their ugly deeds by narrowing down the world to only themselves: This crime will make me happier, more powerful, or some such.

If we truly want to bring good into the world, we need to work on all of expanding our definition of "good" to as large a group as we can handle.

Interesting ballot. Thanks.
by xxxxxxxx on Wed Apr 27, 05 2:12pm [+]

No, I don't believe this could be applied either. Must I explain myself?
by Republican_RightWing on Wed Apr 27, 05 3:27pm [+]

Because humanity hasn't quite made it that far on the spiritual evolution scale.
by Truthseeker013 on Wed Apr 27, 05 6:44pm [+]

Sure, and I am sure that because it is "Eastern" religion there is no chance for abuse like "Western" religions.

I am sure that it would be as successful as the Catholics in the Roman age and Protestants in the American Colony age.
by xxxxxxxx on Wed Apr 27, 05 9:17pm [+]

I think in theory it can be. Stilling minds, opening hearts, filling bellies and strengthening bones is right, not wrong. Christ said that man cannot live by bread alone and that means that mankind needs to feed and nuture the heart and soul spiritually, in order to be fulfilled and whole (at least I think that's the principle). Ultimately, we all want too much of things we really don't need and really make us less happy, not more. I just saw a movie called Spanglish. Excellent movie! Don't want to spoil it...but the message is so clear!
by patch22us on Wed Apr 27, 05 11:37pm [+]

"The more restrictions, the more poverty. The more weapons, the more fear in the land." (From Verse 57)
by EUROTOPIA on Thu Apr 28, 05 4:18am [+]

griffon007- you are right about the false idea of the 'self' causing so much trouble in the world. I think this quote relates: "The Sage sees the world as an expansion of his own self. So what need had he to accumulate things. By giving to others he gains more and more. By serving others he receives everything. (From Verse 79)

And also: "The Sage knows himself but not as himself. He loves himself, but not as himself. He honours himself but not as himself. Thus, he discards the view of himslef and chooses the view of the universe." (From Verse 72)
by EUROTOPIA on Thu Apr 28, 05 4:23am [+]

Republican_RightWing- there is no 'self' to explain. It would be practical to say why disagreement has arisen.
by EUROTOPIA on Thu Apr 28, 05 4:27am [+]

Truthseeker013- I disagree. I believe we all have the potential to reach that level of progress.

pene_palmada- No it is nothing to do with 'political correctness'- whether the ideology came from the East or the West is irrelevant. Whether Lao Tzu was Asian or European is irrelevant. It is the ideology itself that is important, and the ideology clearly states that it should not be forced on the world. Taoist principles are not to be forced, they are to be realised. That is the difference.

And patch, you are right, there are quite a few overlapping principles between Taoism and Christianity. It doesn't matter where the wisdom comes from be it Taoism or Christianity or another religion- as long as good is done.
by EUROTOPIA on Thu Apr 28, 05 4:36am [+]

Eastern religion will work only in the East. I like the West the way it is.(with a few things that need a little change)
by Republican_RightWing on Thu Apr 28, 05 11:30am [+]

Hi euro.
I like anything like this sort of thing

"In a family compound overlooking rice fields at the base of Chiang Dao Mountain in north Thailand, the dog accosts all first-time visitors, barking up a storm and nipping at the ankles, forcing the visitor to keep moving in order to escape the bite. No one living in the compound intervenes on behalf of the visitor. The dog herds the visitor all over the compound, into the rice fields and back, then suddenly stops, gives a little yap, flips up its tail, and returns to the shade for continuation of its nap. If the visitor asks, What the hell was that all about, he is told that he has just visited all the sacred sites on the property where the spirits must be propitiated. When de Soto strolled through rice fields in Bali and one dog then another barked at him, he thought he was identifying Western-style ownership boundaries, Robert Ardrey-ish territorial imperatives picked up by the dogs from their extralegal landed masters. But he was in a landscape terraced in modules, the dimensions of which were increments of a cosmologically-derived unit length, where the “surveyor's corners” are points of spiritual power identified by animistic “feeling-into” and where the irrigation system, communally maintained for generations upon generations, was designed in relation to these propitiation points. The houses and temples in which the people communally working the fields live and spiritually commune were built on basis of modular increments of the same cosmologically-derived unit length. It is probable, as stated in THE MOON OF HOA BINH, that this cosmological unit length for dimensioning in building and landscape ecology is a multiple of the electro-chemical dimensioning of intra-neuronal nuclear DNA, thereby contributing considerably to the environmental psychology of traditional Balinese environmental design -- not to mention just plain good health."
by bigmonkeynuts on Thu Apr 28, 05 11:15pm [+]

Urban Industrtial Civilzation , East or West , They are the same , practically places a prohibition against the Self./Reality The hermit, the Outsider is what one is perceived as being when One does nothing more than reclaim the simple Fact of our existence and they are persecuted and morbidly feared. Those who refuse to come all dressed up after handing in autonomy at the door.
The 5 year old girl who was handcuffed. This person is the future of the world. She is now already the majority. The colonialists were given their last chance towards the end of the 19th century. They have been warned a million times , been given every possible chance. Violence . Absolute all encompassing brutal mayhem is the immediate future.
Depictive anological terminolgy may describe it as a bilogical birth process or a disease purification event or whatever but the mainstreamers are F**cked .Its that simple.

The Tao accomodates this process/event in perfect understanding.
by bigmonkeynuts on Thu Apr 28, 05 11:29pm [+]

Yang Mian Kung Fu , John Chang's Nei Kung and The Systema
are the most effective fighting arts as it happens. Including against the Grapplers and Muay Thai

There are these little girls who after meditating on the third Dantien were unable to be lifted up.
by bigmonkeynuts on Fri Apr 29, 05 1:09am [+]

Republican_RightWing- If Lao Tzu or Gotama (Buddha)had of been European, that is 'Western', would your opinions on Buddhism and Taoism be different? Just out of curiosity.
by EUROTOPIA on Fri Apr 29, 05 3:32am [+]

Yes, it could, but will it ever? Humanity has a long way to go before such wisdom can ever be embraced. The majority of humankind are spiritual neanderthals.
by xxxxxxxx on Fri Apr 29, 05 3:36am [+]

...."One may say more: Mr. Golyadkin did not want only to run away from himself, but to be obliterated, to cease to be, to return to dust."
by bigmonkeynuts on Fri Apr 29, 05 4:38am [+]

and America will fall into the sea
by bigmonkeynuts on Fri Apr 29, 05 4:55am [+]






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