COMMENTS:
I think you could site a lot more cases of violence being put to an end by more violence. Ask the nazi party, or the moors, or the serbian death squads. All of them stopped in their tracks by violence, not forgivness and compassion. If you kill an evil bastard the chance of him harming anyone is about 0%, unless he comes back as a zombie which is pretty unlikely. If you befried him there is still a chance of him going back to being an evil bastard.
befriend
Although forgiveness and compassion are wonderful characteristics they are seen merely as weaknessess by the kind of people who rely on violence to solve their problems.
Violent behaviour is a part of human nature that we can never be rid of. Some people can internalise their violent tendencies (how many of us have wanted to punch, shoot or smash some rude person who has cut us up in his car or slept with our partner or broken into our home and stolen our TV?) But other people thrive on violence. They actually feel better about themselves after beating someone up or dropping a bomb into a populated area. These people see forgiveness as an unforgivable weakness of spirit or lack of backbone.
About 5 years ago a 14 year old student of mine lost his temper (after being sent out of my lab for setting fire to ethanol with a cigarette lighter) and punched me repeatedly in the face in full view of the class. I didn't raise a hand towards him and just simply took the blows and went out outside. My students could not believe that I didnt hit him back. I tried to explain that a) I am not violent and b) I would have lost my job. It didnt matter. Fight fire with fire was the overwhelming feeling and the students lost their respect for me because I DIDNT PUNCH A 14 YEAR OLD BACK.
We live in a world where some people live to dominate by physical force. They love it. They love the power. They hate forgiveness and compassion and seek only to inflict pain and suffering on others.
Lots of thoughts, Fiddle. First, no, forgiveness and compassion are not the ONLY ways violence can end. Theoretically, some nation could achieve a massive technological breakthrough and be suddenly capable of destroying all opposition without risk to themselves. Or some species of technologically advanced aliens could arrive and dictate peace under penalty of death, and ...
well, I wax stupid. But there are other possible solutions to violence other than the two you cite.
And, yes, if everyone on the planet suddenly became compassionate and forgiving, then yeah, it could end violence. Is that likely to happen? You tell me.
We may evolve, or ascend, to the level of species capable of such compassion and forgiveness (if we can survive that long).
Here in the real world, compassion and forgiveness are what you profess in church on Sunday, and leave at home when you drive off to work on Monday.
This is a sad state of affairs, but there it is.
And dare I say it? I enjoyed your ballot. @:>)
It is instructive to remember the Roman Empire: They achieved military superiority through organization,training, and use of technologically advanced military machines to impose Pax Romana: the Roman Peace. So, violence can result in, if not peace, then a diminishment of violence.
Animals of the same species sometimes by accident kill one another, but they never do it on purpose. Humans supposedly are the exception.
I actually watching a documentary where they filmed a group of chimps get together, and then hunt down another chimp. Murder. :) But to the point, violence is a part of life. All life. As long as we are human, we will kill each other. But I'd love to see an end to massive conflicts like wars. That would be nice.
Einstein summed it up pretty well when he said, "You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war."
"Violence can result in, if not peace, then a diminishment of violence."
But oppression can never be mistaken for true peace.
Forgivenes and compassion are sadly becoming less and less apparent in this world we live in, so unfortunatly, I have to disagree with the statement, however, in a perfect world, wouldnt that be nice.
I have to say no because it is an absolute. Maybe in the long run. But then, as a famous economist once said "we are all dead in the long run".
Compassion and forgiveness are what got Jesus Christ killed. One can only turn the cheek a certain amount of time before action must be taken. I suppose forgivness and compassion wouldn't have worked against Germany or Japan in WWII. Or any army through out history.
We're forgetting something valid: Wars are almost always fomented by rich industrialist nations with the simple purpose of creating vast profits. WWII was no exception to that rule.
Rougue, wasn't it through his death that many believe he accomplished the ultimate act?
Fiddle- Yes, but it was destiny for him to die. I'm simply saying that turning the other cheek does not solve the problem.
I agree. Violence always creates a resistant opposition and never truly wins converts.
They may coerce compliance ... for a while, but it is not willingly and will not last.
Note, folks: Forgiveness and compassion does not mean weakness and passivity. it does not mean not defending onesself. It does not mean failing to be assertive. It means foregoing aggression and using compassion in response.
Clarification: "I agree" was in reference to the ballot question, not the previous thread comment.
It is interesting how people have interpreted this question. Cathexis seems to have understood it best.
I understood it perfectly, but probably didn't enunciate as well as Cathexis. ;)
Uncle Randy: I take it you've never been around pigs. Porkers are cannibals, all they need is for one pig to be weakened or hurt, and the feast is on.
Birds, too, kill each other quite commonly, and on and on.
Not an expert on this, but have personally observed pigs cannibalizing other pigs.
So, humans doubtless kill more of their own species that others, but a number of other groups of animals also engages in this behavior.
People see compassion, forgivness, and mercy as a weakness, you need to keep at them while they are down.
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