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result #74870 - IRAQ 'FRAUD' AS BAD AS THE HOLOCAUST, SAYS CONGRESSMAN. FAIR COMMENT OR GROSS EXAGGERATION?

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political :

IRAQ 'FRAUD' AS BAD AS THE HOLOCAUST, SAYS CONGRESSMAN. FAIR COMMENT OR GROSS EXAGGERATION?


[+] serious ballot by xxxxxxxx
created Wed Jun 08, 05
House Democrat Charles Rangel charged on Monday that the Bush administration's decision to concoct a "fraudulent" war in Iraq was "as bad as the Holocaust."

"It's the biggest fraud ever committed on the people of this country," Rangel told WWRL Radio's Steve Malzberg and Karen Hunter. "This is just as bad as six million Jews being killed. The whole world knew it and they were quiet about it, because it wasn't their ox that was being gored."

He continued: "They (the Bush administration) "made up their minds to go into Iraq long before 9/11. And every one of the players who made this decision - they were part of this plan to do it. From Rumsfeld to Cheney, Wolfowitz, Bolton, every one of them - Perle - they were part of the plan to put our kids in harm's way long before 9/11."

Rangel insisted that American blacks and poor whites are dying in Iraq, while those who supported the war aren't paying any price.

When asked to clarify his Holocaust comparison, Rangel told Malzberg:

"I am saying that people's silence when they know terrible things are happening is the same thing as the Holocaust, where everyone would have me believe that no one knew those Jews were killed over there."

What's your reaction to his remarks?

Gross exaggeration - I strongly disagree <1%
Slight exaggeration - I somewhat agree <1%
Gross exageration-I agree on the main point though <1%
Fair comment - I strongly agree with his statement <1%
Comment below <1%
Slight exaggeration - I somewhat disagree 0%
Not sure 0%
Odd, coming from a Jew. 0%
He's getting close! 0%

Ballot #74870: has 21 total votes.
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COMMENTS:
Ballot choices are to allow for the many shades of grey possibly contained in his remarks.

by xxxxxxxx on Thu Jun 09, 05 2:23am [+]

It more then a slight exa
by malckdaddy on Thu Jun 09, 05 2:53am [+]

exageration. I agree with the point though.
by malckdaddy on Thu Jun 09, 05 2:54am [+]

That a lie is a lie is a lie...? That a smaller lie is no better than (or worse than) a larger lie in the context of war?
by xxxxxxxx on Thu Jun 09, 05 4:46am [+]

I was going to ask if he'd been drinking heavily, before I read his clarification. His basic intent was not to literally equate the war in Iraq with the Holocaust; that would be completely ridiculous.

His comparison, though very poorly articulated and not well thought out, is regarding the phenomenon of people (particularly in the Government, in this case) keeping quiet in the face of major human tragedies. If you take sides, and you believe that you are on the right side, you are forced to abandon, or remain ignorant of any set of moral standards that you are not able to reconcile with the harsh reality that some of the things you are tacitly supporting are just wrong. At that point you're already sunk, because you are deliberately considering only the things that support your point of view, and deliberately ignoring anything that doesn't--e.g. the truth. That could be just the beginning of your descent into fanaticism, and few things are as dangerous as fanaticism, in the hands of people who wield power over matters of life and death.

That's one of the fundamental problems with politics. At the upper eschelons (in particular), you can't just "change your mind" on major courses of action that you've taken. How would you ever be able to maintain power if you were to admit that, after due consideration, it turns out that you were wrong about something that is having major ramifications in people's lives? If you truly had the best interest of the people at heart, you would be obligated, through good conscience, to sacrifice yourself for the greater good. That's assuming that you're not already at the point where you're believing your own lies.

It's just a sad fact of life that, in order for our system to function, the public must be bombarded by propaganda, and shielded from the truth. You cannot have a nation of independant thinkers when it comes to politics. And that's when we start to enter the truly frightening arena of mass psychology.
by Applerod on Thu Jun 09, 05 5:22am [+]

Great comment, Applerod.
by xxxxxxxx on Thu Jun 09, 05 5:31am [+]

My guess is that this outburst was the result of 2+ years of suppressed anger against not just what has happened, but what is yet to come farther along down the line.
by xxxxxxxx on Thu Jun 09, 05 9:05am [+]

What about what Sadaam was doing to his own people, did this congressman share views on this?
by CletuSlackedJawYokel on Thu Jun 09, 05 12:35pm [+]

Not sure Cletus, but I'm certain he was privy to the 'facts' as they were presented by FOX News, along with the rest of us.

Not to say that Saddam was anything like approaching a fine statesman or anything - he was clearly a tyrannical despot - but the Congressman's point may have been that Saddam was not even the issue in the Bush administration's decision to push for war.
by xxxxxxxx on Thu Jun 09, 05 1:00pm [+]

Nobody authorized the U.S. to invade iraq to depose Saddam Hussein. Moreover, nobody started caring about what Saddamn was doing to his own people until it became an excuse for starting a war that has proven to be a horrible disaster.
by Applerod on Thu Jun 09, 05 1:07pm [+]

I dont support the Iraq war, but who is to say what we can and cant do? lol.
by CletuSlackedJawYokel on Thu Jun 09, 05 1:44pm [+]

Cletus, it's called KARMA.
by elvislennon on Thu Jun 09, 05 1:59pm [+]

To compare it to the holocaust is ridiculous. I'm coming to the conclusion though that sooner or later the US would have attacked with just cause anyways.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Thu Jun 09, 05 2:03pm [+]

Elvis, you're draining my energy, lol. =:-)=
by CletuSlackedJawYokel on Thu Jun 09, 05 2:20pm [+]

Stupid, insensitive thing to say, even if his point was good.
by cranky on Thu Jun 09, 05 5:02pm [+]

Yes, the war in iraq is no different than the holocaust. Just like a paper cut is no different than the holocaust, or when the waitress get's your order wrong, that's no different than the holocaust.

Rangel is an idiot, I think he's just trying to prove that to the world. He should go back to trying to get legislation passed to bring back the draft.
by herzog on Thu Jun 09, 05 5:19pm [+]

I do agree that Rangel is/can be an idiot. ESPECIALLY as regards his draft bill spnsorship(s). So why the sudden outburst from him regarding something he perhaps should never have supported in the first place?
Conscience?
by xxxxxxxx on Thu Jun 09, 05 5:41pm [+]

*sponsorships. Blah!
by xxxxxxxx on Thu Jun 09, 05 5:42pm [+]

More snotty nonsense by creeps.
by xxxxxxxx on Thu Jun 09, 05 6:10pm [+]

Rangel....isn't he dead from throat cancer yet??
by Guy_Cabbelero on Fri Jun 10, 05 12:10am [+]

That’s a gross exaggeration. Bush isn’t trying to murder every single Iraqi like Hitler was trying to do with the Jews.
by seon on Fri Jun 10, 05 6:01am [+]

Ask the Iraqui's and the young American soldiers!
THEY're the ones dying.
by aplmac on Mon May 15, 06 7:35am [+]

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