COMMENTS:
Hope my confusion hasn't produced a totally confusing ballot.
by mojo on Sat Jul 30, 05 9:09am
[+]
Yep. That is part of the problem. The rationalizations. While I appreciate the condemnation of terrorism (or fatwah), what often follows is a litany of wrongs regarding Iraq (what the US and UK have done) and how that may be driving the terrorist attacks. Hello people??? Things like 9/11 happened well before this Iraq war.
That is not to say that all condemnations have been followed with rationalizations, but many have. This is one of the reasons for many of the huge number of ballots here regarding terrorism and muslims. Many genuine fatwahs have been issued. It is the mixed message that accompany some of them that causes confusion.
^ Well put ^
by mojo on Sat Jul 30, 05 11:11am
[+]
The muslims (the ones who chose to speak for islam) are they're own worst enemy. They've pretty much lost all credibility.
Yes. On one hand, there is no justification for what the terrorists do.
On the other hand, I suspect they fear that it will be perceived as a binary situation (either for the terrorists or for Foreign Policies they strongly oppose), so they try to balance (and fail).
Interestingly, I see a lot of Westerners take the same approach.
Maybe in this way they are trying to tell their people that by condemning terrorism they don't "betray" their countrymen and they still understand and condemn the misery those people have to put up with. Terrorism can not be justified in any way, but many people (including myself) think that there is a rational explanation behind such behavior: terrorism against innocents is irrational, but sometimes such irrational acts are triggered by objective reasons. This objective events that provoke a terrorist attack are as condemnable as terrorism itself.
Without seeming to 'justify' anything about terrorism, the simple fact is that both Spain and the UK did not have any Islamic terrorist attack it, until they became involved in Iraq.
Those who would cite 9/11 as something that was unrelated, may have forgotten that was the justification of the war.
This is not to condone those attacks, but in the cold light of day and thinking beyond the anger, it was a very big contributing factor.
As to the facts about saddam being a tyrant is not in dispute, but the vacuum he has left has just made Iraq ready for a civil war, which is inevitable no matter how much 'democracy' is introduced by an imperialist invader.
The war in Iraq has been used as a "band waggon" to justify a campain of hate by radicals despite the fact that these attacks have been taking place since the early 90's. The intention of these extremists (as reported by bin laden himself) is to rid the world of the infedel (non muslim). Whilst public condemnation from muslim communities is welcomed, I still feel that they should be doing more to rid their ranks of these murderers, such as replacing outspoken extremist clerics from their mosques at the very least, only the muslim councils have the power to do this without causing further unrest, that in my eyes would be a positive step in the right direction.
Anyone can shout a condemnation, however, IMO actions speak far louder than words.
The 9/11 attack was fueled by the USA's involvement in the Israeli/Palestienian conflict,not for the need of muslims to rid the world of infidels. yes they are mad men, these terrorists, but they didnt start killing people because they are from the west and non-muslim, the hate is a lot more complicated and goes a lot deeper than that.
And I wish to Deity that I COULD, lady. For a lack of words, call it Man's Inhumanity Towards Man in action. Those who won't outright condemn the terrorists, in the back corners of their hearts, wouldn't mind seeing the Arrogant West get back a bit of what they perceive us to have dealt out. For many years the West, America in particular, has operated on the dictates of the Manifest Destiny (at the highest levels of government, mind you- there ARE a few folks down the ladder who still hold the original vision of the Founding Fathers dear), believing that we have the implicit right to do whatever is in the best interests of our country. How amny Central American and African countries have we placed in the hands of despots, solely because they can give us what we want in the long term? The mere fact that we're living in the grip of fear right now is reward enough for many.
i think sometimes there are people who are so desperate that they will do anything further their cause. that is not meant to be a justification - just an attempt to understand how these things happen. If they perceive their own position as so unbearable, so in need of change, perhaps they then justify the sacrifice of innocent lives. I am not approving, only trying to comprehend the depth of their determination. We need to be aware. And it is not uncommon for one group of people to view the lives of those outside their group as less valuable. We can certainly disagree, but we need to recognize these things. Unfortunately, just commenting in this way often gets one labeled as sympathizing with terrorists....
There was a study conducted in London in which Muslims were asked " If you had advance knowledge of a terrorist attack would you notify the authorities?" 28% said no they would not. I don't assign much value to surveys but if it's even remotely accurate than our predicament is much worse than I imagined.
Lets not forget that these terrorist are a tiny minority !!! A fruitful step would be to try to find a route cause of what causes people to become radicalised in the first place, then perhaps you will have an oppertunity to put an end to this behaviour.
if 28% say nay that means 72% said they would report it.
28 percent is a lot but you see how we on this site disagree, why should we think that all muslims think the same?
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