COMMENTS:
Christianity is just another cult, it should be seen in the same way we see the Hare Krishnas.... harmless cranks
OFFENSIVE: Juvenile ranting for the sole purpose to offend.
** karma **
LOL! This sort of reminds me of the old Lenny Bruce joke that if Jesus had been killed in recent times people would be walking around with little electric chairs hanging around their necks.
^Lol^. Yes, sometimes I forget that Christainity is the only religion that idolizes an instrument of torture.
Thanks for illustrating that point so eloquently.
There’s no historical evidence outside the Bible that Jesus existed. None of the 40 historians who wrote about the time Jesus was alleged to live in wrote about any of the miracles Jesus did or anything he did for that matter and the ones that do just talk about the early Christians. Face it Jesus is a myth, I’m so sick of Christians going around saying “the Jews killed Jesus” when he never existed in the first place.
by seon on Sat Oct 29, 05 11:05pm
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I thought it was the Romans not the Jews who killed Jesus.
Technically it was. It was political.
There is historical evidence outside of his existance other than the Bible. The Roman historian, Cornelius Tacitus wrote of a man known as Christus who "..suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate..."
The Jewish historian Josephus also wrote of Jesus. There's also legends and stories in India that lead some to believe that Jesus actually traveled there and studied under Buddhist monks. Although I'm not sure on the origins of the historical account on that one. All I can remember is that a 'man of God from the west' visited there around that period of time.
OFFENSIVE: Juvenile ranting for the sole purpose to offend.
Well.... I can see this is a bit borderline. It was the Romans also.
Or maybe it was the Romans... oops! lol
With all due respect Josephus writings have proven to be a fraud. He was a Jew wasn’t he? Then why was he still Jewish after he wrote that Jesus was the messiah? People didn’t start using his “golden paragraph” about Jesus until afew centuries after he was supposed to have written it and his paragraph about Jesus was written out of context, he talks about different things then all of a sudden mentions Jesus.
Did Cornelius live at the time Christus was alleged to have lived? If not he could have been talking about the myth that existed at that time.
The legends in India sound interesting though, do you have any links?
I also heard something about a Japanese Jesus at one point.
Again I mean no disrespect since I respect all faith’s, I just believe all Faith’s lead to God.
And Council doesn’t seem like the kind of person to me to only post ballots that offend people.
by seon on Wed Nov 02, 05 3:54pm
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You're disgusting.
No, I think it was the Jews.
"Again I mean no disrespect since I respect all faith’s, I just believe all Faith’s lead to God."
by seon
No disrespect taken. ;) I'm agnostic myself, but I do a bit of studying and research on various religions. I dont take all of the Bible literally, but I do go at it with an open mind and try not to let my skepticism get in the way.
In regards to Josephus being a fraud, I wasnt aware that he was declared a complete fraud. However, Christian scribes did later edit his writings to include mentions of him being a messiah and performing miracles. Josephus made no mention of these that I'm aware of, they were added by later Christians. This could be where his fraudulent reputation comes from.
"Did Cornelius live at the time Christus was alleged to have lived? If not he could have been talking about the myth that existed at that time."
He wrote that around approximately 100 CE. The interesting part is that Tacitus was neither Christian or Jewish. He despised both religions. He did though write about Christus' death being a "superstition". This is believed by many historians to simply be in reference to the resurection and not his existence. This due to Tacitus' disbelief of the Christian belief system and at the same time his references to Christus as not a god like being, but an actual man who's followers were responsible for the burning of Rome around 64 CE.
I didnt have any links handy at the moment about the Indian legends, but I did a quick search and found this for starters.
http://reluctant-messenger.
com/issa.htm (remove spaces. Not sure we can post links?)
I dont know how unbiased that site it, as it appears to be a pro-Jesus site. But I'm sure alot of the names there can be further researched. The name "Sait Issa" does ring a bell from elsewhere though.
I remember also reading and seeing a photo about a burial mound somewhere in east Asia (India maybe) where some believe Jesus died at and was burried. It's said that either he survived the crucifiction or was not even crucified at all. Many there believe he travelled there to live after his troubles with the Romans.
Good point. Your right Josephus isn’t a fraud but the writings are despite the fact that some Christians still use them as “evidence”
Wow so Cornelius didn’t even know Jesus then or even knew someone who knew him. To me that shows he could have just been talking about the Myth that spread to wherever he lived. I guess its up to the reader to make up his or her mind.
Maybe the Jesus that was buried was a different Jesus. There’s more then one Jesus and in the new testament there’s two Jesus’ (at least according to the version I’ve read) did the writings actually mention “Jesus Christ” or the Christ?
I’ll check out the site later.
To me if someone really did go around performing miracles, casting out demons and preaching 2000 years ago then other people would have written about him and not just the people who wrote the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John and the many other gospels that didn’t make the cut (including the dead sea scrolls which I would love to read)
and whos disgisting ceejjj?
by seon on Thu Nov 03, 05 6:27pm
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No, Cornelius Tacitus probably didnt know Jesus. But being born in 55 CE, there could have been people around during his life that could relate any stories of Jesus and back up his existence. For example, the American Civil War started a little over 140 years ago, but my grandmother can tell stories of it that were told as first hand accounts by her uncle when she was a child. They may be a little exaggerated, but that comes with any type of account passed down from word of mouth. He could have been talking of a myth, but he was supposed to be a reliable historian in his time, and was neither Christian or Jewish. I'm thinking if he thought Jesus was a complete myth, he would have made more mention of it being so. I could be wrong though.
"Maybe the Jesus that was buried was a different Jesus. There’s more then one Jesus and in the new testament there’s two Jesus’ (at least according to the version I’ve read) did the writings actually mention “Jesus Christ” or the Christ?"
The writings of the Asians where the burial site is supposed to be at? I really cannot remember who they refered to his as. I'll have to see if I can try and find more out about that.
"To me if someone really did go around performing miracles, casting out demons and preaching 2000 years ago then other people would have written about him..."
I agree. You'd think that others would have written more. But then people were largely illiterate at the time. Then there's the whole possibility of Jesus' actions being hugely overexaggerated. Maybe his actions werent really profound enough for the common people to bother passing on. The few historians around the time only mentioned him because he had an apparent following. But then that brings us back to why he had a following if his actions werent profound. lol
Personally, I think he existed. I think alot of the stories about him are exaggerated, but I think that he did enough to gain a following. More of a teacher and a healer than an actual messiah I think. That's why his alleged living and studying in Asia under Buddhist monks caught my eye. Some of the Buddhist monks (to this day still) practice a type of energy healing known as Reiki. Some who believe in the 'Jesus in India' theory think that this is what he practiced when he did his healings. Then there's aso discrepencies between Jesus' teachings and the teachings of the Old Testament. He pretty much did away with some of the laws, saying basically "It has been written..but I say...". Many of his teachings are very closely akin to the teachings of Buddhism... It seems a far fetched theory to some, but it's a very interesting one when I get to thinking about it.
Interesting discussion though. :)
This is not a couth ballot, C-Tuck.
No way. Think of the logistics involed. Do you know how much that would cost, even if they got the equipment wholesale?
Two pieces of wood and some nails would seem the thriftiest way to go.
Not if they had the...
Ronco Showtime Rotisserie and Barbecue! Only 19.95 plus a 30 day money back guarantee!
Mmmmmm... sacrilicious. 
Thank God this is a joke about Christianity and not Islam....becuase that just wouldn't be funny or cool.....heard any good WASP jokes lately?
After getting shot and killed by Marines, Osama bin Laden found himself at the gates of Heaven. Once there, he is greeted by George Washington who yells to him, "How dare you attack the nation I helped conceive!", and then slaps Osama in the face.
Patrick Henry comes up from behind and shouts, "You wanted to end our liberty, so we gave you death!" He then punches Osama on the nose.
James Madison comes up next and tells Osama, "This is why I allowed the government to provide for the common defense!" He then kicks Osam in the shin.
Osama is then subjected to beatings from John Randolph, James Monroe, and 65 other people who have the same love for America.
As he writhes on the ground in pain, Thomas Jefferson picks him up to hurl him back toward the gate where God can judge him. As Osama awaits his journey to his final destination in hell, he screams out "This is not what I was promised!"
An angel replies "I told you there would be 72 Virginians waiting for you, idiot. What did you think I said?".
Yeah, yeah... it's an old one. But it's the only Muslim joke I know. ;)
Hi curious sorry for the late reply.
I totally agree with you. Its possible there was a man called Jesus and his followers just exaggerated his story, which is completely understandable. Also if Jesus did those things its easy to see why people back then would believe he was a son of God. But there were allot of healers like Jesus who lived back then who formed followings. The only reason Jesus’s following survived to this day is because the Church used to kill anyone who disagreed with it as “heretics” and it had allot of power, especially the Catholic church. It also suppressed knowledge and alternative religions (ie the books in the Vatican’s, I think that’s how you spell it, library which is closed to the general public and only people who are approved can read them)
Lol at the joke curious if this site would let me give you karma I would but if Binladen really attacked America because he hated our liberty if we have to give up our liberty for security doesn’t that mean he’s already won? Anyway great joke.
by seon on Sat Nov 05, 05 2:42pm
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"Lol at the joke curious if this site would let me give you karma I would but if Binladen really attacked America because he hated our liberty if we have to give up our liberty for security doesn’t that mean he’s already won? Anyway great joke. "
haha Thanks. It's a fairly old one but a funny one. And you do have a point about him winning because we've given up liberty for security. A few more excuses/reasons to instill "security" and we way be on the road to losing much more of that liberty.
But back to the topic. You've got a good point about the reasons for Christianity's survival, the forcing of it on the populous. Another reason for it's credibility in some eyes is that it also acknowledges the same Abramic god that is shared with Judaism. That definitely didnt hurt the Christian movement. Same goes with Islam (which also was born out of another suspected prophet).
Yes, there were other healers around at the time. The Buddha for instance. I think the reason for it not spreading as Christianity did is because some of it's tenets simply dont allow religious dogma. It allows more freedom of thought than Christianity did and is unconcerned with the salvation of others. Buddhism doesnt cater to the idea of a saviour, it teaches that you are your own saviour. I think in those times then, a religion that didnt make any promises that god would save you and care for you wasnt very appealing for alot of people. It's akin to asking for money and having it given to you the easy way vs. having to figure out how to get it yourself. Just IMO though.
Yeah I’m not sure about that. I believe all faith’s lead to God however the Christians worship a trinity while the Jews and Muslims don’t. But I guess people can say the Muslims and Jews worship the father figure of the Christian God.
I agree plus Buddhism was an eastern religion. I don’t think it made its way to the west (or the land Jesus existed) that’s also one of the reasons I like Buddhism. Buddhists don’t preach like Christians do and they don’t believe you’ll go to “hell” if you don’t agree with there beliefs.
Virishna, the eastern savior God, is another example. I also heard there’s other people who claimed to be prophets and the messiah or something like that.
by seon on Sat Nov 05, 05 11:10pm
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"I believe all faiths lead to God"
and if there's no god, which is more likely, then that's a bad thing.
i assume by faiths you mean religions.
.
Yeah religions, Philosophies and everything else. I know there all created by men and I don’t believe any come from “Prophets” but I believe it doesn’t matter how we worship God as long as we do it in our own way. I mean how would it be love if someone said you had to love me this way or you’re going to burn in hell for all eternity?
by seon on Mon Nov 14, 05 8:45pm
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but if there's no god, which is most likely the case, that is a BAD thing.
Not if religions make you a better person plus how do you know there is no God?
by seon on Wed Nov 16, 05 11:24pm
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i don't know. but there's no evidence suggesting it. and what do we do when we have no evidence of something? we assume it doesn't exist until we see something suggesting it does. otherwise we'd be having the same huge arguments over countless unknown, unheard of, and even imaginary, things.
and religions do not make people better. perhaps relatively better, depending on how miserable a person was before becoming faithful. but faith it'sself is a form of immorality, and causes many other forms of immorality (see my post here: bestandworst.com/v/?id=83271)
^good point.
David Koresh claimed he was Christ. What if he was telling the truth? Would that mean that 2,000 years from now, Christians will be wearing little gold flame-throwing tank medallions around their necks?
"I thought it was the Romans not the Jews who killed Jesus."
Yes, the Romans crucified Jesus. But that was because the Jews demanded that.
"No, I think it was the Jews."
Scratch that. Did some more research on it...It was the Romans.
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