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result #94456 - IS GEORGE W. BUSH A WAR CRIMINAL?

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crime : crime :

IS GEORGE W. BUSH A WAR CRIMINAL?


[+] serious ballot by FiddleFaddleOnLSD
created Fri May 19, 06
This is a very serious question so please read the following before answering:

A war crime or war criminal would include the following (not a full list):
1. Violations of established protections of the laws of war
2. Failures to adhere to norms of procedure and rules of battle, such as attacking those displaying a flag of truce, or using that same flag as a ruse of war to mount an attack.
3. It can include such acts as mistreatment of prisoners of war or civilians.
4. Sometimes, it may include mass murder and genocide.
5. Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of war of aggression
6. Waging a war in violation of international treaties.
7. Participation in a common plan or conspiracy to wage an aggressive war.

The definition of the term "war crime" may also vary to convict the defendant(s) with a more specific crime that they may have committed.

On the opposite side, one could argue that Bush acted to prevent war crimes of crimes against humanity.
1. Gassing of the Kurds
2. Torture and murder of political dissidents by Saddam Hussein (who most would consider to have committed crimes against humanity and a war criminal). Similar to reasons that Bill Clinton used to justify bombing Serbia.
3. Attempts to assassinate a US president. This could be a legitimate reason regardless of whether it involved the Bush folks. What if it were Bill Clinton?
4. Hussein supporting terrorists (not Al Qaeda, but other terrorists) that "could" have resulted in the loss of American lives.
5. One could also argue that Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions and was an imminent threat. In other words, the war was/is legal.
a. Violations of Ceasefire & UN Resolutions
b. Iraq's quest for WMD capabilities
c. Ties to international terrorism
d. Iraq's history of domestic and foreign brutality and aggression

I got this idea from a debate on military strategy page. BTW, I'm just asking the question. Please state your reason why you are voting "yes" or "no".

Labelling someone as a war criminal is an extremely serious charge. Caution to anti-Bush folks. You can be against the Iraq war and against Bush and not consider him to be a war criminal.
this ballot was closed by maintainer :
FiddleFaddleOnLSD : on Apr 12, 2007 because ballot stacking.

Yes 63
No 18

Ballot #94456: has 81 total votes.
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COMMENTS:
As much as I disagree with the Iraq war, I think the case is weak.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri May 19, 06 11:13am [+]

Definitely, on counts 1, 3, 5, and 7.

Bush's decision to act unilaterally (I do not recognize the facade of the Coalition of the Bribed) underscores that this was no humanitarian effort. In fact, that rationalization never even came up until after his first two excuses were discredited.
by Cathexis on Fri May 19, 06 11:26am [+]

A war of aggression, under false pretenses ... torture and abuse of prisoners ...

If this was done by 'an enemy,' we'd be up in arms with indignation.
by Cathexis on Fri May 19, 06 11:33am [+]

My comment indicates that it would be extremely unlikely that a substantial enough case could be built to send him to a war crimes tribunal especially considering the precendent it would set. Impeachment is more likely.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri May 19, 06 11:34am [+]

Perhaps George Bush is a war criminal; perhaps not.

The public will not prosecute him because in their heart of hearts, they WANT someone, anyone, to be punished for 911, and lacking clear targets, they enjoy someone, even if it's the wrong someone, getting hurt.
by xxxxxxxx on Fri May 19, 06 12:28pm [+]

I'll add that the burden of proof for someone to be convicted of war crimes by and International War Crimes Tribunal is FAR higher than that which would be required for impeachment.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri May 19, 06 12:37pm [+]

I don't know enough of the salient facts to make any sort of judgment.
by Truthseeker013 on Fri May 19, 06 12:49pm [+]

What Cathexis said.
by isay on Fri May 19, 06 3:51pm [+]

You can get him on 1 & 2 but he can always defend himself and say that it wasn't part of his policy. Violations of the rules of war happen all the time, the only problem is that there is lack of evidence and the courts look at the policies more than they do at the acts. That's a mistake that the courts make.

You can definately get him on #3. It's part of US policy but like everything else, the US government can always say that it wasn't the policy and it can pull the "only a few bad apples" card.

I doubt you can get him on #4. Unless you want to count politicides, which you can't.

You can get him on #5. The war was based on false information and the government knew. Based on the actions of government run corporations, it's obvious that it was all planned ahead of time. It's obvious that the US went there for economical and geo-political reasons.

Can't get him on #6 but I don't know every international treaty.

You can get him on #7 because it ties in with #5. You can also get his entire coalition on #7.
by habeas_corpus on Fri May 19, 06 6:51pm [+]

You can get him, yes. But lawyers, especially those who defend the government always make it so that the books favor them even though they are wrong.
by habeas_corpus on Fri May 19, 06 6:52pm [+]






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