COMMENTS:
This whole conflict in Iraq basically contributed to this incident.
The fact that many soldiers are given a sense of righteousness and invincibilty coupled with a jingoistic nationalist view of their country doesnt help in the 'peace-keeping' efforts in Iraq.
So when overstressed, overtired and undertrained soldiers finally snap, then there are consequences.
I cannot lay the whole blame on these soldiers, as they are the product of a society that raises up the gung ho attitude to foreign policy.
My concern here is that this one incident made the press, after six months... how many did not? And in this case, while the soldiers did commit murder, the blame doesn't wholly reside on them, I see it more as a failure of leadership. Like Abu Ghraib, will we see the lowest ranks take all the blame and punishment, while the commander in chief and the Secretary of Defense just look sad and mumble something about how regrettable this all is.
We expect these kids to get it right everytime, that their training and equipment make them the paramount fighting force in the area. The relevant word in the previous statement was "kids".
The fact that many soldiers are given a sense of righteousness and invincibilty coupled with a jingoistic nationalist view of their country doesnt help in the 'peace-keeping' efforts in Iraq.
So when overstressed, overtired and undertrained soldiers finally snap, then there are consequences.
I cannot lay the whole blame on these soldiers, as they are the product of a society that raises up the gung ho attitude to foreign policy.
by Steelhamster on May 29, 2006 12:11pm
Its a horrible and totally unacceptable act of blind violence. Sickening
Steel, as for your comment, you mean like the do in England? Seriously, the very same thing can be said, and is said for England. Talk about nationalistic pride and being raised that way...one need only have traveled to England once in their lives to have witnessed it. Or, one only need live in a city that has thousands of English visitors to see that the very same thing you say about us, in fact, is equally applicable to the English. Wouldn't you say? No, you probably wouldn't, would you. Truth hurts.
England rules....YEAHH!!! ENGLAND ROCKS!! I mean how many times do we have to hear it?
The fact is, the UK is JUST like the USA and you know it, and I know it, and everyone else in the world knows it. The United States does NOT have a corner on the "sense of righteousness and invincibilty coupled with a jingoistic nationalist view of their country"
That is what is becoming an issue. The fact that you are so busy looking down your noses at us and many others, that you can't even see the reality anymore; that reality is England has more, far more, than its fair share of jingoistic national pride. Doens't mean we don't. Doesn't mean I like it. Difference is, we can at least admit it and face up to it. Sad that most Europeans can't do the same for themselves. And people wonder if the Trans-Atlantic relationship will ever heal? I hope not!
Given that I'm not English, its not really fair for you to paint me with this tag.
Also ONE MILLION ordinary people marched to London to stop the war before it began and it is the vast majority of the British people were never in favour of the war in Iraq.
My comments were actually sympathising with those soldiers in Haditha, but instead of seeing that you chose to use my other comments to point out my errors as you saw it.
There is a minority mindset in England that say that England is wonderful, but these are confined to the lunatic right who vote for nationilst fascist parties.
The British realised after WWII that the empire was gone and we have learned that imperialism is not the answer, it may take others some further time to realise this.
The US do have a culture of armchair generals who see war as an extension of their sports games and will chant USA USA ad infinitum without really understanding why.
And you're wrong. Obviously, you have no idea what you're talking about. Millions of Americans, all over this country, marched against the war. How can you not know that? And you say that it is a minority of English that have that jigonistic nationalisitc "we're number 1" mentality. Really? How do you know? I can say the very same thing about Americans and the United States. Are you aware of that? Doubntful. For all your boastfulness about how superior your world news is, it seems to many Americans that you (Europeans in general) are woefully misinformed about the United States. Its apparent that you (and that translates to many Europeans) know virtually nothing about this country. Or do you base your opinions solely on this web site? Now that is sad. See Steel, right here on this site there are many English people who run around beating their chest at the superiority of England. I know you must see it. So now I await your double talk on that point. See Steel, you want desperately to believe that the EU is somehow this enlightened place...this Utopia. Its not. Blood gushes from every single period of your history. Until Europe and Europeans recognize that they have devolved into arrogant, self-centered, egotistical hypocrits, you will never see the truth.
In the United States, and I'm sure you do not know this, we drag our ugly side into the public and we yell about it, we cry about it and we argue about it. But, we admit it and talk about it and try to change it. Does Europe?
I'm sorry if this seems rude, but your comment above tells me that you are uninformed and unable to admit the shortcomings of your own preciously UK. Think about it. Its clear by your comment that you (and that is the general you) are so absorbed with bashing us, that you can't even see your own faults and mis-steps. Say what you will about us, but we at least admit ours.
Oh yeah, and if you use the election of GWB as some litmus test, I have two words: Tony Blair.
" The fact that many soldiers are given a sense of righteousness and invincibilty coupled with a jingoistic nationalist view of their country doesnt help in the 'peace-keeping' efforts in Iraq."
What war doesn't have these characteristics?
As some other contributor said a while ago, it's just not possible to claim to be the good guys when the troops on the ground are doing bad-guy things.
It happens all the time. The only problem is that the military covers it up most of the time and the media's not always there to report it.
Regrettable as hell
but shit happens
and war IS hell.
Welcome to your future in the 21st.Century,
where there's gonna be lots more gut-wrenching imperfect shit like this happening weekly!
Voted : Fact: Muslim terrorists murder innocent Iraqis every single day.
One has to wonder. Where is the Mulsim outrage of these daily attacks?
Definately not representative of the average US marine or any other soldier in the US armed forces. In prolonged operations of this kind, acts such as this are bound to happen and a few bad apples will commit warcrimes such as haditha and the like. In my opinion this has and will happen again in a VERY limited capacity until the US ends operation in Iraq. And compared to the track records of other nations during wartime/occupations the US marines and the like are saints.
It has probably happened every single day, somewhere in Iraq. The USA media and the USA military will rarely ever report these incidents, except when people find out about them another way, and the international community raises a furor of outrage over yet another masasacre. How many wedding parties have been bombed and slaughtered? How many girls have been raped and their families killed? How many children being tortured in Abu Ghraib to intimidate their parents into confessing crimes which they are innocent of? The invasion and occupation of Iraq was illegal, but there's absolutely no way that the USA can succeed in their aims there, eventually they will be forced out by the Iraqi people - so what's the point? The USA is going to lose anyway, the whole truth will come out anyway, and attacking Iran won't save the USA and Israel either.
*L* Israel will not fuck around if it comes to going after Iran, they will nuke the fuck out of them, and I'll be right there cheering them on. Iran keeps shoving that stick into a BIG hornet's nest, they are just begging to be fucked up.
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