COMMENTS:
I used America in that other ballot because we were talking about Abe Lincoln.
No idea,maybe since America was founded on the basis of freedom and democracy and even the most progressing country at that time,the idea of slavery being legal was hypocritical.Just a guess
oh: you're ballot got me thinking along these lines but this isn't a direct response to it.
If you're specifically talking about america and you use 'slavery' to mean 'slavery in america' that's fine. But in general if you mention slavery on this site with no other qualifiers people will take that to mean american slavery.
Because you claim to be the land of the free. The land of democracy and equal rights. Slavery is just further proof of the lie that you still try to ram down everyones throats.
While I think it is silly to debate which global tragedy is worst I think slavery in America was far worst than what the prisoners faced in concentration camps,Soviet gulags and eunuchs.While yes it was true that young health jews were worked to death by the Nazis atleast if you were to young or to old to work the Nazis killed you.This was not the case in America;slaves worked from when they were able to walk to the day that they died.Their was no gas chamber to release them from their pitful existence.
^ but but but, you said that the west is the home of freedom and democracy going back to the middle ages.
Interesting question. Many of the same people who are quick to label others as "racists" completely ignore the issue of slavery in the world today. They are silent on ballots like: ballot #93708 ballot #84992 ballot #77907 ballot #76124 It seems that they are either so self-centered in the world outlook that they ignore these issues or that they fear a debate on a behavior that some in a group they view as being a persecuted minority engage in. It seems the same people who ignore this issue also ignore other tragedies like genocide. Educate yourselves people. iabolish dot com has tons of information on slavery in the world TODAY.
Because you claim to be the land of the free. The land of democracy and equal rights. Slavery is just further proof of the lie that you still try to ram down everyones throats.
by mobsie666 on Jun 14, 2006 7:11am
really? did england not partake in the slave trade? do you know your history? are you aware that europeans were the ones coming to these shores, before we were even a nation, and bringing slaves here and to other parts of the world?
you europeans keep forgetting that when the new world was founded, it was done so by europeans ( you know, since america as a nation did not exist yet). you guys started it all. convenient that you all like to gloss over that.
learn facts and stop letting your irrational emotional outbursts cloud your judgement.
Well, as Mobsie says, it completely contradicted the entire moral base of the American constitution. Slavery is not expected from society that apparently places so much emphasis on "liberty".
Also, slavery in America lasted through more than one generation. Black people were bred like animals to work the fields, effectively being bred towards domestication like cattle.
so mobs, lets now talk about jolly ole' england, shall we. slave traders. pirates. slaughters of innocent native populations all over the world. india. the list just goes on and on and on. surel you know that, right? and what about europe today? seems to be your recent moves on immigration shows that western eruope is fast becoming a closed fortress. seems to us that countries like england, too, are always going on and on about equal rights, freedom and democracy.
hypocrit. worse, an ill-informed hypocrit. worse still, an ill-informed hypocrit who thinks he knows it all. pompous.
Kev24
Two points to make here
1) The British "empire" was exactly that, an empire. It never claimed to be a land of opportunity, and had no constitution as such. The British simply thought they were better than everyone else, and at the time they pretty much were lol
2) The British delivered the slaves. They didnt work them half to death everyday, beat them, rape their women and generally treat them worse than farm animals EVERYDAY of their sorry little lives. Theres a world of difference.
Also, slavery in America lasted through more than one generation. Black people were bred like animals to work the fields, effectively being bred towards domestication like cattle.
by lil_ape on Jun 14, 2006 8:27am
you are right. brought to our shores by european slave traders who got rich taking them from their home nation and transporting them across the ocean in changes. which is the worse crime, or are they equally reprehensible?
The worse crime, as I stated above, is the constant daily abuse, and Nazi-esque treatment of the farm "niggers" Of course. The British at least had the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality as an excuse.
^ or do you guys not learn in europe that it was in fact, european founded and run slave trade companies that were more than happy to "supply the product."
ask alot of african-americans who they ultimately blame forslavery and they will tell you europe. fact.
^ sorry lil, you replied as i was replying. you're right -- i think you nail it on the head. thanks.
Yes kev im well aware of this fact. but we dont claim to be the land of the free and the homw of democracy like you do.
Read what im saying before you decide to start your amateur psychology. Nothing i said was irrational emotional nor an outburst. So there is no judgement to cloud.
Is this how you try and win a debate by trying to question the stability of your opponent? Not by actually having the intelligence to do it by argument?
As I said your a self important, arrogant prick. Now launch into your mobsie is sad and noone likes him crap.
Let me just say here that Im not defending the acts of the British empire, which are numerous and bloody, if thats how its coming across. Im just talking about this particular case.
mobsie, then you need to think before you post your comments. i see you having to expalin yourself an awful lot, so either it everyone else, or its you. and yeah, i have heard england proclaim itself to be a beacon of freedom and democracy. your very own pm has on numerous occasions. so get over it.
these are not outbursts, these are just replies to your comments, which i find to be irrational, off the mark and filled with rage. tough if you don't like it. and as for what others think about you -- well, we can let their words speak for their true feelings about you.
the thing is mobsie, you really should be more focused on your own nation's bloody history.
i've seen you post the most ridiculous comments about native americans and its clear you don't know true history. if you did, you'd be able to acknowledge what the english and french did to the east coast native americans and you'd acknowledge what the spanish did to the west coast natives, not to mention that they wiped out entire native populations in south america, central america and mexico.
thats my beef. deal with it. and your jealousy is getting the best of you, isn't it?
Is this how you try and win a debate by trying to question the stability of your opponent? Not by actually having the intelligence to do it by argument?
As I said your a self important, arrogant prick. Now launch into your mobsie is sad and noone likes him crap.
by mobsie666 on Jun 14, 2006 8:34am
oh for crying out loud! i'm arrogant? mobsie, whatever. i'm done with you. waste of life.
When we are discussing the issue of slavery on B&W, most of us are English-speaking Americans, and the example closest to us is the American experience of slavery.
It is a fact that slavery existed for several thousand years before America was founded.
It is interesting to notice that although our Founding Fathers found it "self evident" that all men were created equal that this notion is nowhere found in the Bible, or any other religious text.
All of the major religious books written during slavery only admonish the master to treat his slaves well.
Slavery takes many forms. If we define slavery as the economic/social exploitation of one class (masters) over another (slaves/servants & workers). The modern world is full of such examples.
You dont understand kev and explaining things to you is difficult because you dont actually listen. seems as if you have problems understanding
"which i find to be irrational, off the mark and filled with rage." By which you mean things you disagree with. Explain how you got irrational off the mark and filled with rage from my comments?
Your a dick kev. You are looking to shout me down but all you are acheiving is making a fool of yourself. Keep it up mate. its actually quite amusing.
John Lennon said it best:
'You're all f*cking peasants as far as I can see'
From 'Working Class Hero'
sure mobsie, what ever you say. okay. yes. you know best and you know it all. you talk down to everyone. you're nasty, arrogant, bitter, rude, insensitive and generally, a big ole' blowhard, but sure, what ever you say is right. how could i not have seen it.
as for me not listening. hmmm, lets see. i graduated top of my class from a competitive private school. i then graduated in the top 10% of my college class from an ivy league school i might add and now i'm getting an advance degree from a top university. yes, clearly it is i who has the issue and not you, a self-proclaimed expert on all things, yet oddly, ignorant of most things. how do you pull it off?
consider that bragging if you want -- i'm just pointing out some facts. so, whats your educational background, champ?
The reason why is that most people are only able to view the world through their own countries experience.
Griffon... to be fair, the Torah gave specific instructions on how slaves were to be treated. It also provided for a relatively easy way for a slave to be freed. This text was written about 3000 years ago. Those that used the Bible to justify slavery OBVIOUSLY did not read all of it. The rules regarding slavery were set up because at that time it was inconceivable that a society could function without slaves. These laws were beyond compare at the time. Slavery as an institution in Israel died out a long time ago. Unfortunately the same thing was not true for the rest of the world.
Voted : I do know, I'll explain below
It's the slavery we are most familiar with, and we are reminded of it, rightly, all the time.
1. It happened on our soil.
2. We see descendents of former slaves all the time.
3. It was a major factor in a major American war.
4. It involved a president memorialized on coins and bills.
For an American to NOT associate slavery with American slavery would be devalue it and its victims.
And when I discuss slavery, I always refer to the American slavery of the past AND the ongoing, santioned slavery in Africa.
Because Blacks think the world revolves around them.
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