COMMENTS:
Putting aside a few simple facts such as...
1.Buildings don't fall outwards when they are imploded by controlled demolition.
2.The collapsed happened to start on the floors where the plane impacted.
3. The impact of the plane and subsequent fire ball would have rendered any explosive charges useless in that area.
4. It would have taken the best part of half a year to prep and charge the buildings - including 10's of thousands of charges and enough cable to go to Pluto and back.
That is my guess.
by mojo on Wed Jul 05, 06 7:17am
[+]
Wasn't hard though was it Mojo?
How much was found or how much was reported, after they swoope din and rushed the rubble away? 
Of course, they used MAGIC explosives on the WTC. So small no one could see them move them in.  
Maybe they used anti-matter. 
Cathexis, the idea that the rubble was rushed away is a complete myth.
The rubble was checked twice at the WTC site, then once at the Fresh Kills landfill site on Staten Island, it was sifted by hand.
The search was staffed my over 1000 members of the NYPD, FDNY, FEMA, NIST and the FBI.
Unless of course they were all in on it as well?
too bad the demolition conspiracy gets more attention than what our govt. let happen that day... hm maybe that's the point of it ;)
by Jyl on Wed Jul 05, 06 8:16am
[+]
wnc: IMO, the sad fact of the matter is -- this isn't really a question of if the US govt was involved so much as it is a matter of 'Do we still trust the people in our govt.?'
If we had an honest govt who was known for truth, these accusations wouldn't gain legs.
But we don't ... so why is anyone surprised when base actions are suspected?
Controlled demolition theories are just a smokescreen to hide what really happened.
How does NORAD scramble jets just minutes after Payne Stewart's plane veers off course, yet they do nothing on that morning? 
^Yet another myth...
NTSB Accident Report
"At 0933:38 EDT (6 minutes and 20 seconds after N47BA acknowledged the previous clearance), the controller instructed N47BA to change radio frequencies and contact another Jacksonville ARTCC controller. The controller received no response from N47BA. The controller called the flight five more times over the next 4 1/2 minutes but received no response.
About 0952 CDT,7 a USAF F-16 test pilot from the 40th Flight Test Squadron at Eglin Air Force Base (AFB), Florida, was vectored to within 8 nm of N47BA. About 0954 CDT, at a range of 2,000 feet from the accident airplane and an altitude of about 46,400 feet, the test pilot made two radio calls to N47BA but did not receive a response".
ntsb . gov / Publictn / 2000 / AAB0001 . htm
Looks good at first, but read it carefully and you'll notice a change of time zone, from Eastern to Central time. CDT is one hour on from EDT, so contact was regarded as lost at around 09:38, and the fighter didn't get to within 2000 feet of Stewart’s jet until 10:54. That's roughly 76 minutes to intercept.
Popular Mechanics...
"In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ)."
^That was the only case in the decade before 9/11 where a plane was intercepted in CIVILIAN space. It took somewhere around 70-80 minutes.
big suprise there. but for anyone who's seen video of the collapse, in which the destruction was top to bottom, not bottom to top, showing that the collapse was caused by gravity, that's a no brainer.
but then again, so are the conspiracy nuts.
Another excellent ballot, but you have to realize that trying to talk sense to conspiracy nuts is like trying to convince a paranoid schizophrenic that the government hasn't planted a device in their brain.
wolf nipple chips litte lie (again) -
"There was 1.62 billion pounds worth of WTC debris, all of which was meticulously searched and sorted."
BULLSHIT AND NONSENSE, AND AND OUTRIGHT LIE!
From WTC 1 and WTC 2, NONE of the structural steel was examined. It was disposed off and destroyed before any of the investigators could study any of it.
From WTC 7, only 147 selected cut-off pieces of steel were kept for examination. None of the rest.
Much of the steel was recycled in America, but an additional seventy thousand tons of WTC steel was sold to Metals Management - then shipped the WTCÂ’s steel to China and India for recycling! (from China Radio English Edition - "New York's Metals Management is among the firms taking steel from the huge project to clear Ground Zero. The company says it has bought 70,000 tons of scrap from the ruined twin towers. Some of the scrap has been shipped across the Pacific to Asian, including China and India. Among the consignments of scrap are the "very dense" steel girders from Ground Zero, which could finally yield 250,000 to 400,000 tons of scrap for recycling.")
Bill Manning, editor of the 125 year old Fire Engineering magazine, noticed a strange difference between the WTC investigation and other major fire investigations in New York CityÂ’s history. Manning wrote "Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the happy land social club fire? That's what they're doing at the World Trade Center."
In calling for a new investigation, some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer.' -- NY Times
"I find the speed with which potentially important evidence has been removed and recycled to be appalling" -- Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer; fire protection engineering department, University of Maryland and WTC collapse probe member quoted in NY Times (December 25, 2001)
Many of the most respected engineers in the country complained not only about the recycling, but also about the Federal government's suffocating control of their investigation. On December 25, 2001, the New York Times ran a story about the frustrations of some of the engineers who were called in to study the cause of the collapse: "Interviews with a handful of members of the team, which includes some of the nation's most respected engineers, also uncovered complaints that they had at various times been shackled with BUREACRATIC RESTRICTIIONS THAT PREVENTED THEM FROM INTERVIEWING WITNESSES, EXAMINING THE DISASTER SITE, AND REQUESTING CRUCIAL INFORMATION like recorded distress calls to the police and fire departments."
ALL EVIDENCE POINTING TO A DELIBERATE COVER-UP
(Popular Mechanics...
by wolf_nipple_chips on Jul 05, 2006 9:31am)
Whose article was thoroughly DEBUNKED as full of LIES.
62 intercepts with 25 minutes. They seemed to have DELIBERATELY IGNORED THAT.
Who wrote the article? Do you know? It was MARVIN BUSH. LOL.
And they sacked more than half their staff for disagreeing with him.
Look. Here's the thing. And I hate to keep saying this, but I live in NYC and believe me, even though I was too young to know exactly what happened, what I do know is that planes hit the WTC. The conspiracy theory nuts lose me when they try to maintain that they didn't. All those families who had loved ones on those planes are certainly NOT covering up for the government. Plus, how many more survivors who got out of the buildings have to tell how they saw the PASSENGER jet coming toward the building?? How many more amateur vido clips do we have to see showing PASSENGER jets flying into the buildings do we have to see?
I mean come on!!! If you believe in a conspiracy that the Bush government KNEW in advance and LET the planes hit, thats one thing. But some of you freaks are just idiots to maintain that planes did not hit the WTC.
I mean most of you guys live in Australia, so you did not live through all the survivors on the TV news telling their story and you did not watch specials with the family members of the passengers on the planes telling of their sorrow.
If you're going to thing there is a conspiracy, then for the love of all that is good, use your freaking brains!
And will all you aliases sit up and take notice!! We all see you coming on, one right after the other, to back the "other" (read: self) up and we all see you posting the SAME exact sources word for word. Are you people brain dead or on drugs?
Cold Circuit - No source?
They found 19,000 human remains. leading to 1215 identifications, 4000 personal photographs, $78,318.47 in domestic and foreign currency, 54,000 other peices of personal information.
How do you think they got those without examining the steel and debris in detail? Come on, think logically now.
"62 intercepts with 25 minutes."
No Source?
Were they in civilian or restricted air space?
I think you will find there were in restricted airspace.
"NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America"
That claim has never been refuted.
All other intercepts were in response to either non civlian planes either in restricted airspace, or outside North American airspace.
("NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America"
That claim has never been refuted. by wolf_nipple_chips on Jul 06, 2006 1:54am)
Yes it has. That BS claim of yours was debunked even by one of Popular Mechanic's own cited "experts," Maj. Douglas Martin, who stated that there were, 62 intercepts an 67 scrambles from September 2000 to June 2001
At least stick to the same alias.
Again - civilian, restricted or off shore airspace?
Please show me some evidence of a civilian plane bieng intercepted in civilian airspace, other than the example I have already provided.
How do you think they got those without examining the steel and debris in detail?
by wolf_nipple_chips on Jul 06, 2006 1:26am
Easy, photographs aren't made of steel are they? Asking you to THINK is like asking a bull's ass to spout more than BS.
As for sources, read what I quoted. The sources are already in the post despite your pretending otherwise
((wolf nipple chips litte lie (again) -
"There was 1.62 billion pounds worth of WTC debris, all of which was meticulously searched and sorted."
BULLSHIT AND NONSENSE, AND AND OUTRIGHT LIE!
From WTC 1 and WTC 2, NONE of the structural steel was examined. It was disposed off and destroyed before any of the investigators could study any of it.
From WTC 7, only 147 selected cut-off pieces of steel were kept for examination. None of the rest.
Much of the steel was recycled in America, but an additional seventy thousand tons of WTC steel was sold to Metals Management - then shipped the WTCÂ’s steel to China and India for recycling! (from China Radio English Edition - "New York's Metals Management is among the firms taking steel from the huge project to clear Ground Zero. The company says it has bought 70,000 tons of scrap from the ruined twin towers. Some of the scrap has been shipped across the Pacific to Asian, including China and India. Among the consignments of scrap are the "very dense" steel girders from Ground Zero, which could finally yield 250,000 to 400,000 tons of scrap for recycling.")
Bill Manning, editor of the 125 year old Fire Engineering magazine, noticed a strange difference between the WTC investigation and other major fire investigations in New York CityÂ’s history. Manning wrote "Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the happy land social club fire? That's what they're doing at the World Trade Center."
In calling for a new investigation, some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer.' -- NY Times
"I find the speed with which potentially important evidence has been removed and recycled to be appalling" -- Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer; fire protection engineering department, University of Maryland and WTC collapse probe member quoted in NY Times (December 25, 2001)
Many of the most respected engineers in the country complained not only about the recycling, but also about the Federal government's suffocating control of their investigation. On December 25, 2001, the New York Times ran a story about the frustrations of some of the engineers who were called in to study the cause of the collapse: "Interviews with a handful of members of the team, which includes some of the nation's most respected engineers, also uncovered complaints that they had at various times been shackled with BUREACRATIC RESTRICTIIONS THAT PREVENTED THEM FROM INTERVIEWING WITNESSES, EXAMINING THE DISASTER SITE, AND REQUESTING CRUCIAL INFORMATION like recorded distress calls to the police and fire departments."
ALL EVIDENCE POINTING TO A DELIBERATE COVER-UP
by Coldcircuit on Jul 05, 2006 6:20pm))
((Look. Here's the ...
by patch22us on Jul 05, 2006 9:20pm))
Amazing how patch22us is so thoroughly insane that he starts making claims about non-existent planes and other nonsense, PRETENDING that other people like myself have made such claims.
Well, we haven't patch, so bugger off and try that little lie somewhere else.
you, sir, are a lunatic.
The man who is a real lunatic is this nutcase on the karma attack mania who is also rating down other people simply because he THINKS that everyone who argues against him is the same person! And, he can't with REAL FACTS, so he blows his own credibility away with this;
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How do you think they got those without examining the steel and debris in detail? by wolf_nipple_chips on Jul 06, 2006 1:26am
Easy, photographs aren't made of steel are they? Asking you to THINK is like asking a bull's ass to spout more than BS. As for sources, read what I quoted. The sources are already in the post despite your pretending otherwise ((wolf nipple chips litte lie (again) - "There was 1.62 billion pounds worth of WTC debris, all of which was meticulously searched and sorted." BULLSHIT AND NONSENSE, AND AND OUTRIGHT LIE! From WTC 1 and WTC 2, NONE of the structural steel was examined. It was disposed off and destroyed before any of the investigators could study any of it. From WTC 7, only 147 selected cut-off pieces of steel were kept for examination. None of the rest. Much of the steel was recycled in America, but an additional seventy thousand tons of WTC steel was sold to Metals Management - then shipped the WTCÂ’s steel to China and India for recycling! (from China Radio English Edition - "New York's Metals Management is among the firms taking steel from the huge project to clear Ground Zero. The company says it has bought 70,000 tons of scrap from the ruined twin towers. Some of the scrap has been shipped across the Pacific to Asian, including China and India. Among the consignments of scrap are the "very dense" steel girders from Ground Zero, which could finally yield 250,000 to 400,000 tons of scrap for recycling.") Bill Manning, editor of the 125 year old Fire Engineering magazine, noticed a strange difference between the WTC investigation and other major fire investigations in New York CityÂ’s history. Manning wrote "Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the happy land social club fire? That's what they're doing at the World Trade Center." In calling for a new investigation, some structural engineers have said that one serious mistake has already been made in the chaotic aftermath of the collapses: the decision to rapidly recycle the steel columns, beams and trusses that held up the buildings. That may have cost investigators some of their most direct physical evidence with which to try to piece together an answer.' -- NY Times "I find the speed with which potentially important evidence has been removed and recycled to be appalling" -- Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer; fire protection engineering department, University of Maryland and WTC collapse probe member quoted in NY Times (December 25, 2001) Many of the most respected engineers in the country complained not only about the recycling, but also about the Federal government's suffocating control of their investigation. On December 25, 2001, the New York Times ran a story about the frustrations of some of the engineers who were called in to study the cause of the collapse: "Interviews with a handful of members of the team, which includes some of the nation's most respected engineers, also uncovered complaints that they had at various times been shackled with BUREACRATIC RESTRICTIIONS THAT PREVENTED THEM FROM INTERVIEWING WITNESSES, EXAMINING THE DISASTER SITE, AND REQUESTING CRUCIAL INFORMATION like recorded distress calls to the police and fire departments." ALL EVIDENCE POINTING TO A DELIBERATE COVER-UP by Coldcircuit on Jul 05, 2006 6:20pm))
patch22us prefers to ignore facts and sources which counter his lies by karma blocking any mention of them.
nice job ignoring the point about the collapse.
maybe if you conspiracy nuts payed a little more attention instead of jumping to common-sense layperson reasoning conclusions, we wouldn't have these arguments.
I'll repeat - if they found 19,000 human remains. leading to 1215 identifications, 4000 personal photographs, $78,318.47 in domestic and foreign currency, 54,000 other peices of personal information.
Why did they not find any blasting caps, or detonation chord...
I see you've given up on your rubbish about plane interceptions. Sensible.
And I'll repeat.
1. Buildings don't fall outwards when they are imploded by controlled demolition.
2.The collapsed happened to start on the floors where the plane impacted.
3. The impact of the plane and subsequent fire ball would have rendered any explosive charges useless in that area.
4. It would have taken the best part of half a year to prep and charge the buildings - including 10's of thousands of charges and enough cable to go to Pluto and back.
5. As Neo points out. This collapse was top to bottom, not bottom to top.
No one feels bad for you Meteor7. It has nothing to do with facts. For every supposed fact you post, someone can refute it. It has to do with the fact that you are rude and that you hide behind multiple aliases. You're nasty to people who have a different view than you. You can post the neg karma all over the place. LCD can also verify that I hardly ever give out Negative Karma. In fact, virtually never. I gave it to you because we're tired of you being a SHILL and using your other fake names to prop up your argument.
I can't and won't speak for others on their issue with you, but I find you to be a nasty person, just like your aliases.
And Meteor7, what lies? Nothing I've posted has been a lie on this issue. This is why you're getting negative Karma. Your arrogance is really astonishing. Do you mean about Planes hitting the WTC? Oh yeah, sure, thats one of my lies. You're very pathetic. Do you mean my point that you are your aliases are all over the place? Well, we ALL think that to be true.
Tough if you don't like it. Then leave.
And Meteor7, look what you do, as always. Too lazy to write your own comment, all you do is post the crap you posted by one of your aliases (meaning YOU). Look at the comment you make where all you do is cut and plaste ColdCircuit's comment again. We know thats one of your aliases, so its just an insult that you cut it and paste on here. Lazy and rude.
(In reply to Meteor7)
Well, they did they same thing to me just today as well.
Fiddle must've been a busy lunatic today.
4 times in 10 minutes.
Tough if you don't like it. Then leave.
by patch22us on Jul 07, 2006 4:07am
Maybe you should since you like acting like an a-hole.
Oh look. TankGirl is here. How predictable. How typical. Meteor7 gets attacked for being dishonest and deceitful, and he quickly sings off and then on and then off and then on with his multiple aliases. Trying to make it look like all these users back you up? Come on. We all know by now the game you play. Its boring. You should leave. You're not worthy to be on this site with all the great users because you deceive people with your aliases. I mean you leave a few of your aliases dormant and then what, as soon as you need back up, you bring them back to life and we're supposed to believe that out of the blue, this user who has not commented in months, if not longer, just happens to come on B&W on the very day you need back up? Get real.
WATCH OUT FOR MAD CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!
(reposted from internet sources)
PARANOID FANTASIES ABOUT SEPT 11
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will be at least one, usually several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it.
"Mahatma Ghandi’s ghost throttled Hendrix"
"Saddam Hussein was breeding an army of genetically modified Yeti".
"Hitler was half Werewolf"
"Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc.
The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So it's hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales.
And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unaware by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able to.
Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - which remains uninvestigated, the complicit behaviour of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours , crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more stupid stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus it has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.
It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed.
Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)logical conclusions.
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives ,box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist.
For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes.
If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists.
But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist.
With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious.
However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.
"Excuse me sir, why do you have a box cutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"
"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."
"Very strange", thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or box cutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane?
But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will point to the fact that the hijackers passports were allegedly found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again.
"Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?"
"You numbskull ! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on…
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unravelling of this marvellously stupid story.
"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "
The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...
This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The "improbability drive", in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to suggest it, and then speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to try to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world).
There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct.
Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.
Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the crew being able to alert Air Traffic Control (ATC ) is almost impossible. The crew needs only to punch in a four digit code to alert ATC to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the crude method of threatening people with box cutters and knives, shooting and stabbing passengers to try to lure the crew out of the cockpit and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously). And yet, miraculously they were able to take control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code.
Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive.
So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms", it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will for this dreadful deed.
Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behaviour - and then got up at 5am the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find.
It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skilfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi- believable.
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that for a plane to instantly blow itself up into nothing like that, it would have to be packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.
But lets humour the conspiracy theorists and suppose that this crude cartoon designed to hide whatever really hit the building was actually a real plane.
Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vaporising the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along.
There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load!
Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically kerosene, and usually burns at about 400c has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vaporizing 70 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 23 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about four times that of the normal combustion temperature of kerosene. And forget about the boiling point of these metals, which is what would be required to vaporize a plane. And then there's about 47 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of kerosene.
For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as "mumbo jumbo". This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute.
Determinedly ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vaporised into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins.
"Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact!" they state with pompous certainty. "Watch any Bruce Willis movie!"
"Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies ?"
At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner into which they have backed themselves and plan their escape by means of another stunning back flip.
"Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin.
“Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vaporised into nothing.”
"But not big planes, with that much fuel ! ", they shriek in hysterical denial.
“Or that much metal to vaporise. “
"Yes, but not hijacked planes !"
"Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?"
"Now you're just being silly".
Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vaporise into nothing. What's so special about hitting a building?
But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "Its a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact."
Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves (if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vaporisation of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop…
But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even creative more uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant vertical collapse of both the WTC towers as well as building 7, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosene.
This makes it necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vaporising a 70 ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Their insane eyes glinting madly, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosene is enough to
: completely vaporise a 70 ton aircraft
: have enough left over to burn so ferociously for over an hour at the impact point that it melted massive steel construction beams ( melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel ).
: still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building.
Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vaporised. And never again will I take kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vaporised into nothing - along with the rest of the camp site - with still enough of the deadly stuff left to start a massive forest fire.
These whackos are actually claiming that the mythical raging inferno allegedly created by this miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire -therefore not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics.
Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel girders softened they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways.
Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of kerosene, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and re-invented the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way?
All three buildings fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11.
It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knows no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the towers at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures, originally designed to withstand many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a large passenger jet straying off course.
Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why.
"Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir"
"No miss, the kerosene heater blew up and vaporised everything in the street, except for my passport."
"You see sir, the school bus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms."
Or perhaps they misunderstood the term "creative science" and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework.
The ferocious heat generated by the ghastly kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by such heat. This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city. That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vaporise a 70 ton aircraft.
You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vaporised by the fuel tank explosion, maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.
So there you have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time.
This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space in between of lower building height. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 ft deep, with a similar depth of lower level space between the rings.
The missile which the Bush regime fired into it, went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat hole less than 20 ft wide, less than 20 ft high through three rings-about 250 ft into the building
A little later a section of wall about 65 ft wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft , and a tail height of 40 ft, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible.
But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of kerosene, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity, the second law of thermodynamics, and invented imaginary properties for building materials, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well ?
I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy nut, this is "mumbo jumbo". It conflicts with their mad delusion, so it must be wrong although trying to get then to explain the specifics of how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour.
Conspiracy nuts fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They shriek that the plane was vaporised by it's exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behaviour.
(Fruit loop warning !! )
Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly back flip to explain the 250 ft deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage).
As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat.
When it suits them they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from above. How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity.
Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks.
As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and prevent his endless war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime.
At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery which was perpetrated on Sept 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in "retaliation" are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged.
Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia.
It's time to stop the loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11
^Yawn.
I'll repeat - if they found 19,000 human remains. leading to 1215 identifications, 4000 personal photographs, $78,318.47 in domestic and foreign currency, 54,000 other peices of personal information.
Why did they not find any blasting caps, or detonation chord...
1. Buildings don't fall outwards when they are imploded by controlled demolition.
2.The collapsed happened to start on the floors where the plane impacted.
3. The impact of the plane and subsequent fire ball would have rendered any explosive charges useless in that area.
4. It would have taken the best part of half a year to prep and charge the buildings - including 10's of thousands of charges and enough cable to go to Pluto and back.
5. As Neo points out. This collapse was top to bottom, not bottom to top.
You're on the fruit loop again Wolf! (o:
Government complicit in 9/11
January 10,2006
Bush told us that Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11. We didn't question it, and it wasn't true.
Bush told us that Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons. We didn't question it, and it wasn't true.
Bush told us that Saddam Hussein had mobile chemical labs to churn out weapons of mass destruction. We didn't question it, and it wasn't true.
Bush assured us that our government was always getting warrants when conducting domestic wire-tapping, that his administration would stop paying for fake news articles that were made to look real, that nobody in his administration broke Valerie Plame's cover, and that our government isn't torturing people or maintaining secret prisons in foreign countries. None of this was true.
And worst of all, Bush told us that the terror attacks of 9/11 were conducted entirely by foreign terrorists and that all of our defenses just happened to fail.
We didn't question it.
We didn't ask for a single shred of evidence.
But this almost certainly wasn't true either.
I challenge everyone to read David Ray Griffin's essay, "The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot be True."
It's on the internet.
And Larry Silverstein, the WTC leaseholder, inadvertently admitted that controlled demolition brought down one of the buildings -just Google "Silverstein Pull It Comment."
If you have the courage to open your mind and actually review the facts, you will agree that the evidence of government complicity in 9/11 is overwhelming.
Frank B. Haddleton
Burlington
- Just one open minded American, eloquently expressing the majority viewpoint.
Incapable of answering the ballot question again Ken?
Why don't you copy and paste some more text that we've seen about twenty times?
Okay - seen as you didn't read it yet, (or are at least afraid to read past where it get's uncomfortable for you perhaps -you know after the intro, which you must have relished till the tables where turned) - or at least don't believe anyone else has read - you wish - here's another opportunity for you - Enjoy if you dare... (o:
WATCH OUT FOR MAD CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!
(reposted from internet sources)
PARANOID FANTASIES ABOUT SEPT 11
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will be at least one, usually several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it.
"Mahatma Ghandi’s ghost throttled Hendrix"
"Saddam Hussein was breeding an army of genetically modified Yeti".
"Hitler was half Werewolf"
"Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc.
The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So it's hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales.
And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unaware by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able to.
Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - which remains uninvestigated, the complicit behaviour of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours , crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more stupid stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus it has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.
It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed.
Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)logical conclusions.
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives ,box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist.
For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes.
If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists.
But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist.
With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious.
However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.
"Excuse me sir, why do you have a box cutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"
"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."
"Very strange", thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or box cutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane?
But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will point to the fact that the hijackers passports were allegedly found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again.
"Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?"
"You numbskull ! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on…
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unravelling of this marvellously stupid story.
"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "
The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...
This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The "improbability drive", in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to suggest it, and then speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to try to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world).
There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct.
Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.
Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the crew being able to alert Air Traffic Control (ATC ) is almost impossible. The crew needs only to punch in a four digit code to alert ATC to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the crude method of threatening people with box cutters and knives, shooting and stabbing passengers to try to lure the crew out of the cockpit and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously). And yet, miraculously they were able to take control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code.
Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive.
So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms", it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will for this dreadful deed.
Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behaviour - and then got up at 5am the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find.
It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skilfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi- believable.
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that for a plane to instantly blow itself up into nothing like that, it would have to be packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.
But lets humour the conspiracy theorists and suppose that this crude cartoon designed to hide whatever really hit the building was actually a real plane.
Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vaporising the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along.
There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load!
Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically kerosene, and usually burns at about 400c has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vaporizing 70 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 23 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about four times that of the normal combustion temperature of kerosene. And forget about the boiling point of these metals, which is what would be required to vaporize a plane. And then there's about 47 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of kerosene.
For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as "mumbo jumbo". This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute.
Determinedly ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vaporised into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins.
"Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact!" they state with pompous certainty. "Watch any Bruce Willis movie!"
"Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies ?"
At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner into which they have backed themselves and plan their escape by means of another stunning back flip.
"Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin.
“Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vaporised into nothing.”
"But not big planes, with that much fuel ! ", they shriek in hysterical denial.
“Or that much metal to vaporise. “
"Yes, but not hijacked planes !"
"Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?"
"Now you're just being silly".
Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vaporise into nothing. What's so special about hitting a building?
But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "Its a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact."
Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves (if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vaporisation of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop…
But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even creative more uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant vertical collapse of both the WTC towers as well as building 7, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosene.
This makes it necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vaporising a 70 ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Their insane eyes glinting madly, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosene is enough to
: completely vaporise a 70 ton aircraft
: have enough left over to burn so ferociously for over an hour at the impact point that it melted massive steel construction beams ( melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel ).
: still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building.
Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vaporised. And never again will I take kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vaporised into nothing - along with the rest of the camp site - with still enough of the deadly stuff left to start a massive forest fire.
These whackos are actually claiming that the mythical raging inferno allegedly created by this miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire -therefore not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics.
Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel girders softened they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways.
Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of kerosene, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and re-invented the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way?
All three buildings fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11.
It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knows no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the towers at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures, originally designed to withstand many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a large passenger jet straying off course.
Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why.
"Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir"
"No miss, the kerosene heater blew up and vaporised everything in the street, except for my passport."
"You see sir, the school bus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms."
Or perhaps they misunderstood the term "creative science" and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework.
The ferocious heat generated by the ghastly kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by such heat. This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city. That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vaporise a 70 ton aircraft.
You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vaporised by the fuel tank explosion, maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.
So there you have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time.
This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space in between of lower building height. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 ft deep, with a similar depth of lower level space between the rings.
The missile which the Bush regime fired into it, went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat hole less than 20 ft wide, less than 20 ft high through three rings-about 250 ft into the building
A little later a section of wall about 65 ft wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft , and a tail height of 40 ft, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible.
But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of kerosene, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity, the second law of thermodynamics, and invented imaginary properties for building materials, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well ?
I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy nut, this is "mumbo jumbo". It conflicts with their mad delusion, so it must be wrong although trying to get then to explain the specifics of how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour.
Conspiracy nuts fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They shriek that the plane was vaporised by it's exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behaviour.
(Fruit loop warning !! )
Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly back flip to explain the 250 ft deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage).
As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat.
When it suits them they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from above. How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity.
Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks.
As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and prevent his endless war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime.
At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery which was perpetrated on Sept 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in "retaliation" are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged.
Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia.
It's time to stop the loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11
{It would have taken the best part of half a year to prep and charge the buildings - including 10's of thousands of charges and enough cable to go to Pluto and back.
by wolf_nipple_chips on Jul 13, 2006 3:29am}
Why need any cable? These days they use radio. No cable required.
There's this wonderful new thermite gel that the US military developed. Much easier to apply.
It's been estimated by many demolition experts that the entire job of installing thermite in pre-planned locations could've been done over 48 hours.
^Source?
See how this devious lie mercenary defaults to 'source?' whenever he comes up against the brick wall of truth - but never acknowledges the source when it's presented to him.
He kept doing it with me Lovely on a related 9/11 ballot every time I caught him out, a ballot which he eventually gave up on and ran away from surprise surprise. (o:
I'll ask him something here and we'll see what he has to say.
So what do you think that substance was that was still smouldering at incredibly high temperatures in the ruins for months after the demolitions of the twin towers Nipple?
Diesel fuel or thermite?
This should be interesting folks. (o:
"See how this devious lie mercenary defaults to 'source?' whenever he comes up against the brick wall of truth"
LOL. For it to be truth Ken, there needs to be facts. You need sources in order to present facts.
...but I don't mind waiting.
{You need sources in order to present facts.
by wolf_nipple_chips on Jul 15, 2006 5:55am}
Yes, so please provide some facts and sources for those facts to counter our points, loser.
Exactly lovely, a complete loser who completely ignores the facts - such as the fact that no thorough forensic examination of the ruins was allowed to take place because those responsible for the massacre had it all shipped off abroad to be recycled - a completely illegal act under American law.
The exact same thing clever murderers do in cleaning up the crime scene so that no forensic evidence is left - just on a grander scale.
npr . org / programs / morning / features / 2002 / may / freshkills / index . html
nyc . gov / html / dcp / html / fkl / fkl_faq . shtml
silive . com / local / advance / index . ssf? / local / siguide / stories / 05freshkills . html
epa . gov / wtc / pictures . html
news . bbc . co . uk / 1 / hi / world / americas / 2130538 . stm
cnn . com / 2005 / US / 02 / 22 / wtc . identifications /
news . bbc . co . uk / 1 / hi / world / americas / 2611059 . stm
...Enjoy.
But I suppose the BBC and CNN are all liars aren't they?
{ But I suppose the BBC and CNN are all liars aren't they?
by wolf_nipple_chips on Jul 15, 2006 12:50pm}
No, just conned by more of the Official Lies of the USA government.
Remember the taking of Basra in Iraq?
NINE TIMES the BBC reported that the CITY of Basra had been taken, without ever reporting the truth that it was only the airport, and that the Iraqis had repeatedly kicked the UK and US forces out again. They had egg on their face bigtime in the UK because of this. The BBC later apologised and said they would no longer be so trusting of the Pentagon's news releases.
Did you ever hear any of the US media aplogise for lying?
Voted : None
Thankyou WNC for another excellent contribution to this debate. Trouble is that people who believe a lie without evidence will never be convinced of the truth with evidence.
^^^Which you never offer (o:
I've noticed that the OCTers who defend the Official Conspiracy Theory (Arabs Did It) like to ignore all facts to the contrary of their bizarre theories.
It is a FACT that it's impossible to make cellphone calls from passenger planes flying at cruising altitude six miles up and flying at over 450mph without an onboard cellular basestation (technology which wasn't available prior to 2004 and is still in testing stage), and it's a FACT that cellphone calls from a vehicle moving at over 450mph (even if successfully make the handshake when flying at low altitude) will only last a few seconds since there is no time for the hand-off; the call will ALWAYS drop out in just a few seconds - minutes long cellphone calls are IMPOSSIBLE.
It's a FACT before and after Sept 11 2001 that no steel-framed hi-rise or tower-style buildings have ever collapsed straightdown at close to freefall speed into their own footprint - except with controlled demolitions, and that it is IMPOSSIBLE without a controlled demolition according to the laws of PHYSICS.
It's a fact that NOBODY has ever successfully simulated the collapses of WTC 1, 2, & 7 without considering controlled demolition, and that means NOBODY. Not NIST, not, NOVA, Dr Eagar, FEMA, MIT, Bazant & Zhou, nor Dr Frank Green, nor anyone else. NOBODY has succeeded; those who have claimed to have done so, have ALWAYS been proven to be LIARS when their mathematical formula were checked.
It's a FACT, that there was NO INFERNO in either of the WTC twin towers. The temperatures of the fires never went above 360C, and apparently were around 250C, which is well below the 550C at which steel only barely begins to lose it's elasticity. Glass melts at 700C - There are no reports of melting glass at the towers, and the glass in the storeys above the fire didn't seem to break so the temperature was clearly way below 700C. Of the more than 170 areas examined on 16 perimeter column panels, only three columns had evidence that the steel reached temperatures above 250ºC - Only two core column specimens had sufficient paint remaining to make such an analysis, and their temperatures did not reach 250 ºC. Using metallographic analysis, NIST determined that there was no evidence that any of the samples had reached temperatures above 600 ºC. Kevin Ryan of UL had cited a similar figure (250C).
It's a FACT that there were hundeds of witnesses to explosions at the WTC buildings, and that their claims are supported by video evidence showing lines of explosions blowing out the floors before the falling debris could reach those floors, and there's seismic data showing impossibly short tremors revealing the use of explosives in those controlled demolitions.
Voted : None
Great Ballot!
The demolition of the Landmark building only required 190kgs of demo-charges. Scaling up to the Twin Towers would only require around 560kgs of demo-charges. Not much at all.
This ballot has been horribly vote spammed too.
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