COMMENTS:
This is a ballot for those who seem to think Larry Silverstein would some how benefit from the alledged demolition of the WTC towers.
en . wikipedia . org / wiki / Larry_Silverstein
time . com / time / insidebiz / article / 0,9171,1191836-3,00 . html
nypost . com / postopinion / opedcolumnists /61352.htm
forbes . com / 2003 / 09 / 11 / cx_da_0911silverstein . html
Correction - 130 million a year in rent.
uh oh! FACTS!!! What will the nuts do now? Expect a lot of hyperventilating, denial and cut and pastes from prisonplanet.
He doesn't have to spend 6.3 billion to rebuild, so that doesn't count - it's voluntary. He could sell the land for quite a lot as well. Therfore he came out ahead and made a profit.
130 million per year is tiny in comparison to getting BILLIONS, neh?
Lovelynice
"He doesn't have to spend 6.3 billion to rebuild, so that doesn't count - it's voluntary."
That's right. He didn't have too but he did. Hardly the actions of someone trying to "benefit".
probably
by ABC on Tue Jul 11, 06 12:35pm
[+]
"It's voluntary".
Yes it is, and he chose to! Which would mean what?
He chose to put himself into the red.
Hence the fact that he is rebuilding one building at a time.
"130 million per year is tiny in comparison to getting BILLIONS"
Can you read? What part of "it will cost 6.3 billion to rebuild", did you not understand?
WATCH OUT FOR MAD CONSPIRACY THEORIES!!!
(reposted from internet sources)
PARANOID FANTASIES ABOUT SEPT 11
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will be at least one, usually several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it.
"Mahatma Ghandi’s ghost throttled Hendrix"
"Saddam Hussein was breeding an army of genetically modified Yeti".
"Hitler was half Werewolf"
"Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc.
The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.
So it's hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales.
And as always, there is - sadly - a small but gullible percentage of the population eager to lap up these tall tales, regardless of facts or rational analysis.
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unaware by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able to.
Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - which remains uninvestigated, the complicit behaviour of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours , crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more stupid stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus it has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.
It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed.
Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)logical conclusions.
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives ,box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist.
For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes.
If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists.
But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist.
With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious.
However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.
"Excuse me sir, why do you have a box cutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"
"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."
"Very strange", thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or box cutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane?
But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will point to the fact that the hijackers passports were allegedly found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again.
"Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?"
"You numbskull ! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on…
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unravelling of this marvellously stupid story.
"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "
The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...
This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The "improbability drive", in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to suggest it, and then speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to try to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world).
There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct.
Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.
Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the crew being able to alert Air Traffic Control (ATC ) is almost impossible. The crew needs only to punch in a four digit code to alert ATC to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane by the crude method of threatening people with box cutters and knives, shooting and stabbing passengers to try to lure the crew out of the cockpit and spraying gas (after they had attached their masks, obviously). And yet, miraculously they were able to take control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code.
Not just on one plane, but on all four. At this point in the tale, the conspiracy theorist is again forced to call upon the services of the improbability drive.
So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms", it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will for this dreadful deed.
Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behaviour - and then got up at 5am the next morning to pull off the greatest covert operation in history. This also requires us to believe that they were even clear headed enough to learn how to fly the huge planes by reading flight manuals in Arabic in the car on the way to the airport. We know this because they supposedly left the flight manuals there for us to find.
It gets better. Their practical training had allegedly been limited to Cessnas and flight simulators, but this was no barrier to the unflinching certainty with which they took over the planes and skilfully guided them to their doom. If they are supposed to have done their flight training with these tools, which would be available just about anywhere in the world, its not clear why they would have decided to risk blowing their cover to US intelligence services by doing the training in Florida, rather than somewhere in the Middle East, but such reasoning is foreign to the foggy world of the conspiracy theorist, too trapped in the constant rotation of the fruit loop to make their unsubstantiated fabrications seem even semi- believable.
Having triumphantly established a circular delusion in support of the mythical Arabs, the conspiracy theorist now confronts the difficult question of why there's nothing left of the planes. Anybody who has seen the endlessly replayed footage of the second plane going into the WTC will realize that for a plane to instantly blow itself up into nothing like that, it would have to be packed with explosives. Planes do not and cannot blow up into nothing in that manner when they crash.
But lets humour the conspiracy theorists and suppose that this crude cartoon designed to hide whatever really hit the building was actually a real plane.
Did the mythical Arabs also haul a huge heap of explosives on board, and mange to deploy them in such a manner that they went off in the exact instant of the crash, completely vaporising the plane? This is a little difficult even for the conspiracy theorist, who at this point decides that its easier to invent new laws of physics in order to keep the delusion rolling along.
There weren't any explosives. It wasn't an inside job. The plane blew up into nothing from its exploding fuel load!
Remarkable! Sluggishly combustible jet fuel which is basically kerosene, and usually burns at about 400c has suddenly taken on the qualities of a ferociously explosive demolition agent, vaporizing 70 tons of aircraft into a puff of smoke. Never mind that a plane of that size contains around 23 tons of steel and titanium, of which even the melting points are about four times that of the normal combustion temperature of kerosene. And forget about the boiling point of these metals, which is what would be required to vaporize a plane. And then there's about 47 tons of aluminium to be accounted for. In excess of 15lbs of metal for each gallon of kerosene.
For the conspiracy theorist, such inconvenient facts are vaguely dismissed as "mumbo jumbo". This convenient little phrase is their answer to just about anything factual or logical. Like a conjurer pulling a rabbit out of a hat, they suddenly become fanatically insistent about the devastating explosive qualities of kerosene, something hitherto completely unknown to science, but just discovered by them, this very minute.
Determinedly ignoring the fact that never before or since in aviation history has a plane vaporised into nothing from an exploding fuel load, the conspiracy theorist relies upon Hollywood images, where the effects are always larger than life, and certainly larger than the intellects of these cretins.
"Its a well known fact that planes blow up into nothing on impact!" they state with pompous certainty. "Watch any Bruce Willis movie!"
"Care to provide any documented examples? If it's a well known fact, then presumably this well known fact springs from some kind of documentation - other than Bruce Willis movies ?"
At this point the mad but cunning eyes of the conspiracy theorist will narrow as they sense the corner into which they have backed themselves and plan their escape by means of another stunning back flip.
"Ah, but planes have never crashed into buildings before, so there's no way of telling." they counter with a sly grin.
“Well, actually planes have crashed into buildings before and since, and not vaporised into nothing.”
"But not big planes, with that much fuel ! ", they shriek in hysterical denial.
“Or that much metal to vaporise. “
"Yes, but not hijacked planes !"
"Are you suggesting that whether the crash is deliberate or accidental affects the combustion qualities of the fuel?"
"Now you're just being silly".
Although collisions with buildings are rare, planes frequently crash into mountains, streets, other aircraft, nosedive into the ground, or have bombs planted aboard them, and don't vaporise into nothing. What's so special about hitting a building?
But by now, the conspiracy theorist has once again sailed happily around the fruit loop. "Its a well documented fact that planes explode into nothing on impact."
Effortlessly weaving back and forth between the position that its a "well known fact" and that "its never happened before, so we have nothing to compare it to", the conspiracy theorist has now convinced themselves (if not too many other people) that the WTC plane was not loaded with explosives, and that the instant vaporisation of the plane in a massive fireball was the same as any other plane crash you might care to mention. Round and round the fruit loop…
But the hurdles which confront the conspiracy theorist are many, and they are now forced to implement even creative more uses for the newly discovered shockingly destructive qualities of kerosene. They have to explain how the Arabs also engineered the elegant vertical collapse of both the WTC towers as well as building 7, and for this awkward fact the easiest counter is to simply deny that it was a controlled demolition, and claim that the buildings collapsed from fire caused by the burning kerosene.
This makes it necessary to sweep aside the second law of thermodynamics and propose kerosene which is not only impossibly destructive, but also recycles itself for a second burning in violation of the law of degradation of energy. You see, it not only consumed itself in a sudden catastrophic fireball , vaporising a 70 ton plane into nothing, but then came back for a second go, burning at 2000C for another hour at the impact point, melting the skyscraper's steel like butter. And while it was doing all this it also poured down the elevator shafts starting fires all through the building. When I was at school there a little thing called the entropy law which suggests that a given portion of fuel can only burn once, something which is readily observable in the real world, even for those who didn't make it to junior high school science. But this is no problem for the conspiracy theorist. Their insane eyes glinting madly, they claim that a few thousand gallons of kerosene is enough to
: completely vaporise a 70 ton aircraft
: have enough left over to burn so ferociously for over an hour at the impact point that it melted massive steel construction beams ( melting point about double the maximum combustion temperature of the fuel ).
: still have enough left over to pour down the elevator shafts and start similarly destructive fires all through the building.
Kerosene really is remarkable stuff! How chilling to realize that those kerosene heaters we had in the house when I was a kid were deadly bombs, just waiting to go off. One false move and the entire street might have been vaporised. And never again will I take kerosene lamps out camping. One moment you're there innocently holding the lamp - the next - kapow! Vaporised into nothing - along with the rest of the camp site - with still enough of the deadly stuff left to start a massive forest fire.
These whackos are actually claiming that the mythical raging inferno allegedly created by this miraculously recycling, and impossibly hot burning kerosene melted or at least softened the steel supports of the skyscraper. Oblivious to the fact that the smoke coming from the WTC was black, which indicates an oxygen starved fire -therefore not particularly hot, they trumpet an alleged temperature in the building of 2000 C , without a shred of evidence to support this curious suspension of the laws of physics.
Not content with this ludicrous garbage, they then contend that as the steel girders softened they came straight down instead of buckling and twisting and falling sideways.
Since they're already re-engineered the combustion qualities of kerosene, violated the second law of thermodynamics, and re-invented the structural properties of steel, why let a little thing like the laws of gravity get in the way?
All three buildings fell in a time almost identical to that of a free falling object, dropped from that height, meaning that its physically impossible for it to have collapsed by the method of the top floors smashing through the lower floors. But according to the conspiracy theorists, the laws of gravity were temporarily suspended on the morning of Sept 11.
It appears that the evil psychic power of those dreadful Arabs knows no bounds. Even after they were dead, they were able, by the power of their evil spirits, to force down the towers at a speed physically impossible under the laws of gravity, had it been meeting any resistance from fireproofed steel structures, originally designed to withstand many tons of hurricane force wind as well as the impact of a large passenger jet straying off course.
Clearly, these conspiracy nuts never did their science homework at school, but did become extremely adept at inventing tall tales for why.
"Muslim terrorists stole my notes, sir"
"No miss, the kerosene heater blew up and vaporised everything in the street, except for my passport."
"You see sir, the school bus was hijacked by Arabs who destroyed my homework because they hate our freedoms."
Or perhaps they misunderstood the term "creative science" and mistakenly thought that coming up with such rubbish was in fact, their science homework.
The ferocious heat generated by the ghastly kerosene was, according to the conspiracy theorists, the reason why so many of the WTC victims can't be identified. DNA is destroyed by such heat. This is quite remarkable, because according to the conspiracy theorist, the nature of DNA suddenly changes if you go to a different city. That's right! If you are killed by an Arab terrorist in NY, your DNA will be destroyed by such temperatures. But if you are killed by an Arab terrorist in Washington DC, your DNA will be so robust that it can survive temperatures which completely vaporise a 70 ton aircraft.
You see, these loonies have somehow concocted the idea that the missile which hit the pentagon was not a missile at all, but one of the hijacked planes. And to prove this unlikely premise, they point to a propaganda statement from the Bush regime, which rather stupidly claims that all but one of the people aboard the plane were identified from the site by DNA testing, even though nothing remains of the plane. The plane was vaporised by the fuel tank explosion, maintain these space loonies, but the people inside it were all but one identified by DNA testing.
So there you have it. The qualities of DNA are different, depending upon which city you're in, or perhaps depending upon which fairy story you're trying to sell at any particular time.
This concoction about one of the hijacked planes hitting the Pentagon really is a howler. For those not familiar with the layout of the Pentagon, it consists of 5 rings of building, each with a space in between of lower building height. Each ring of building is about 30 to 35 ft deep, with a similar depth of lower level space between the rings.
The missile which the Bush regime fired into it, went in at about a 45 degree angle, punching a neat hole less than 20 ft wide, less than 20 ft high through three rings-about 250 ft into the building
A little later a section of wall about 65 ft wide collapsed in the outer ring. Since the plane which the conspiracy theorists claim to be responsible for the impact had a wing span of 125 ft and a length of 155 ft , and a tail height of 40 ft, and there was no wreckage of the plane, either inside or outside the building, and the lawns outside were still smooth and green enough to play golf on, this crazy delusion is clearly physically impossible.
But hey, we've already disregarded the combustion qualities of kerosene, the properties of DNA, the laws of gravity, the second law of thermodynamics, and invented imaginary properties for building materials, so what the hell - why not throw in a little spatial impossibility as well ?
I would have thought that the observation that a solid object cannot pass through another solid object without leaving a hole at least as big as itself is reasonably sound science. But to the conspiracy nut, this is "mumbo jumbo". It conflicts with their mad delusion, so it must be wrong although trying to get then to explain the specifics of how it could be wrong is a futile endeavour.
Conspiracy nuts fly into a curious panic whenever the Pentagon missile is mentioned. They shriek that the plane was vaporised by it's exploding fuel load and point to the WTC crash as evidence of this behaviour.
(Fruit loop warning !! )
Like an insect which has just been sprayed, running back and forth in its last mad death throes, they first argue that the reason the hole is so small is that plane never entered the wall, having blown up outside, and then suddenly back flip to explain the 250 ft deep missile hole by saying that the plane disappeared all the way into the building, and then blew up inside the building (even though the building shows no sign of such damage).
As for what happened to the wings - here's where they get really creative. The wings snapped off and folded into the fuselage which then carried them into the building, which then closed up behind the plane like a piece of meat.
When it suits them they'll also claim that the plane slid in on its belly, (ignoring the undamaged lawn) while at the same time citing alleged witnesses to the plane diving steeply into the building from above. How they reconcile these two scenarios as being compatible is truly a study in stupidity.
Once they get desperate enough, you can be sure that the UFO conspiracy stuff will make an appearance. The Arabs are in league with the Martians. Space aliens snatched the remains of the Pentagon plane and fixed most of the hole in the wall, just to confuse people. They gave the Arabs invisibility pills to help get them onto the planes. Little green men were seen were seen talking to Bin Laden a few weeks prior to the attacks.
As the nation gears up to impeach the traitor Bush, and prevent his endless war, it's not helpful to have these idiots distracting from the process by spreading silly conspiracy theories about mythical Arabs, stories which do nothing but play into the hands of the extremist Bush regime.
At a less serious time, we might tolerate such crackpots with amused detachment, but they need to understand that the treachery which was perpetrated on Sept 11, and the subsequent war crimes committed in "retaliation" are far too serious for us to allow such frivolous self indulgence to go unchallenged.
Those who are truly addicted to conspiracy delusions should find a more appropriate outlet for their paranoia.
It's time to stop the loony conspiracy theories about Sept 11
{ That's right. He didn't have too but he did. -
by ClosetIguana on Jul 11, 2006 12:34pm}
Which means he didn't have to. Still voluntary. I bet it's a lot easier to obtain bank loans with a multi-billion dollar payout sitting in his bank a account. I bet he couldn't have so easily obtained a loan for a building tht wasn't making a profit (example; the WTC when he owned it, and put that convenient huge insurance on it, and the WTC was a white elephant of piling debts).
And MrWolf, your claim about him NEEDING to spend 6.3 billion falls flat. NOBODY NEEDS to spend more money than the original insured building was worth - that's always voluntary. So it doesn't count.
He came out ahead.
He's getting a new building, with most of the money for it already available, has billions in his bank account, and can easily borrow more because he has billions already.
And 130 million in rent PER YEAR is tiny in comparison to having 6.3 billion in his account. Very tiny. The YEARLY rent is pocket change in comparison.
Way to go Ken, another duplicate comment that no one is going to bother to read.
Lovelynice. If the man is spending MORE than what he recieved as compensation for the event on 9/11, he is loosing money. Quite simple really. He hasn't benefitted in any way from the loss of the WTC complex.
And you don't just "get" new buildings. Who do you think has to pay for these new buildings?
Lovely nice.
Little scenario for you...
My factory burns down to the ground.
I recieve £500,000 in compensation
It will cost £550,000 to rebuild my factory - which I chose to do.
Would I have benefitted from my factory burning down?
'...no one is going to bother to read.'
by fruit looper wolf_nipple_chips
Sums him up doesn't it- he just closes his eyes to the painful truth - shame on you for defending the mass murderers of all these innocent people.
Government complicit in 9/11
January 10,2006
Bush told us that Saddam Hussein was connected to 9/11. We didn't question it, and it wasn't true.
Bush told us that Saddam Hussein was developing nuclear weapons. We didn't question it, and it wasn't true.
Bush told us that Saddam Hussein had mobile chemical labs to churn out weapons of mass destruction. We didn't question it, and it wasn't true.
Bush assured us that our government was always getting warrants when conducting domestic wire-tapping, that his administration would stop paying for fake news articles that were made to look real, that nobody in his administration broke Valerie Plame's cover, and that our government isn't torturing people or maintaining secret prisons in foreign countries. None of this was true.
And worst of all, Bush told us that the terror attacks of 9/11 were conducted entirely by foreign terrorists and that all of our defenses just happened to fail.
We didn't question it.
We didn't ask for a single shred of evidence.
But this almost certainly wasn't true either.
I challenge everyone to read David Ray Griffin's essay, "The Destruction of the World Trade Center: Why the Official Account Cannot be True."
It's on the internet.
And Larry Silverstein, the WTC leaseholder, inadvertently admitted that controlled demolition brought down one of the buildings -just Google "Silverstein Pull It Comment."
If you have the courage to open your mind and actually review the facts, you will agree that the evidence of government complicity in 9/11 is overwhelming.
Frank B. Haddleton
Burlington
- Just one open minded American, eloquently expressing the majority viewpoint.
wolf_nipple_chips
Little scenario for you...
My factory burns down to the ground.
I recieve £500,000 in compensation
It will cost £550,000 to rebuild my factory - which I chose to do.
Would I have benefitted from my factory burning down?
It's nice of you to try and make it clear to them but I still think it's over their heads.
Ken Said "Sums him up doesn't it- he just closes his eyes to the painful truth"
No Ken, I've read it (about two month ago), but when you spam every 9/11 ballot with the same huge piece of text, no one is going to read it - it's boring.
Ken, it wouldn't bother me if it was actually related to this particular ballot question.
It is SOOOOOO profoundly related to this ballot question you complete idiot, are you really THAT stupid?
"My factory burns down to the ground. I recieve £500,000 in compensation.
It will cost £550,000 to rebuild my factory - which I chose to do.
Would I have benefitted from my factory burning down? by ClosetIguana on Jul 13, 2006 5:45pm"
You lose the point because Larry Silverstein isn't REBUILDING, he's planning to build bigger and better. That's a voluntary choice, not a necessity, which means your pretending that his voluntary expenditure of MORE MONEY - which is totally voluntary - does not in any way prove he's made a loss; because HE HASN'T.
yeah, that makes sense. was a voluntary choice. absolutely nothing happened to the previous buildings that might discourage someone from building them again the exact same way. do you hear yourself talk? i might kill you tonight.
Yes, it was a voluntary choice.
oh dear zombie jesus...
Tank_girl, LMAO!
Ken, Please do me the honour of showimg me where you remotely answered this question in your text...
"DID LARRY SILVERSTEIN BENEFIT FINANCIALLY FROM THE COLLAPSE OF THE WTC TOWERS? "
Of course he did you delusional traitor.
Silverstein Makes a Huge
Profit off of the 9/11 Attacks
Deal of the Year: World Trade Center, New York, NY
Weighing in at $3.2 billion, the acquisition of the 99-year leasehold of the World Trade Center was the largest of the year. "Notwithstanding the emotional difficulty of celebrating anything related to the World Trade Center is the fact that upon completion of its acquisition by Larry Silverstein, it was clearly the deal of the year for the industry, and now more than ever, a deal of lifetime for Silverstein" said Ken Zakin, managing director at Insignia/ESG.
Six months before the 9/11 attacks the World Trade Center was "privatized" by being leased to a private sector developer. The lease was purchased by the Silverstein Group for $3.2 billion. "This is a dream come true," Larry Silverstein said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights."
But the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe.
From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace.
How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?
Also, the towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built.
It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings.
Other New York developers had been driven into bankruptcy by the costly mandated renovations, and $200 million represented an entire year's worth of revenues from the World Trade Towers.
The perfect collapse of the twin towers changed the picture.
Under a pending agreement, a developer and his investors will get back most of the down payment that they made to lease the World Trade Center just six weeks before a terrorist attack destroyed the twin towers. Developer Larry Silverstein and investors Lloyd Goldman and Joseph Cayre are nearing a deal that would give them about $98 million of their original investment of $124 million, The New York Times reported Saturday.
Instead of renovation, Silverstein is rebuilding, funded by the insurance coverage on the property which 'fortuitously' covered acts of terrorism. Even better, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy, based on the two, in Silverstein's view, separate attacks. The total potential payout is $7.1 billion, more than enough to build a fabulous new complex and leave a hefty profit for the Silverstein Group, including Larry Silverstein himself.
As reported in The Washington Post, the insurance company, Swiss Re, has gone to court to argue that the 9/11 disaster was only one attack, not two and that therefore the insurance payout should be limited to $3.55 billion, still enough to rebuild the complex.
Update: WTC Leaseholder May Collect Up To $4.6B
A federal jury on Monday ruled that the assault on the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center was in fact two occurrences for insurance purposes. The finding in U.S. District Court in Manhattan means leaseholder Larry Silverstein may collect up to $4.6 billion, according to reports.
The result of court ruling: Silverstein makes a huge profit off of the 9/11 attacks. (END)
Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it. (o:
^^^Looks like the fruitlooper nipple's sources are embarrassing the poor fool again as per usual.
well, if there was no argumentum ad copy-paste before, there is now.
LOL, Ken, read the ballot description.
He recieved 4.6 billion in insurance - as my source says, and as your referenceLESS piece of text also says.
It will cost far more than that to rebuild.
Or are you calling Forbes, Time, and NY Post liars?
Ken, do you actually have your own opinion? Or do you simply just have a database of other peoples opinions and pass them off as your own?
The truth is clearly hurting you.
You obviously didn't read this because it just hurts you soooo much!
So I'll repeat it for you.
Silverstein Makes a Huge
Profit off of the 9/11 Attacks
Deal of the Year: World Trade Center, New York, NY
Weighing in at $3.2 billion, the acquisition of the 99-year leasehold of the World Trade Center was the largest of the year. "Notwithstanding the emotional difficulty of celebrating anything related to the World Trade Center is the fact that upon completion of its acquisition by Larry Silverstein, it was clearly the deal of the year for the industry, and now more than ever, a deal of lifetime for Silverstein" said Ken Zakin, managing director at Insignia/ESG. (that's Ken Zakin now nipple okay? Not me)
Six months before the 9/11 attacks the World Trade Center was "privatized" by being leased to a private sector developer. The lease was purchased by the Silverstein Group for $3.2 billion. "This is a dream come true," Larry Silverstein said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights."
But the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe.
From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace.
How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?
Also, the towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built.
It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings.
Other New York developers had been driven into bankruptcy by the costly mandated renovations, and $200 million represented an entire year's worth of revenues from the World Trade Towers.
The perfect collapse of the twin towers changed the picture.
Under a pending agreement, a developer and his investors will get back most of the down payment that they made to lease the World Trade Center just six weeks before a terrorist attack destroyed the twin towers. Developer Larry Silverstein and investors Lloyd Goldman and Joseph Cayre are nearing a deal that would give them about $98 million of their original investment of $124 million, The New York Times reported Saturday.
Instead of renovation, Silverstein is rebuilding, funded by the insurance coverage on the property which 'fortuitously' covered acts of terrorism. Even better, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy, based on the two, in Silverstein's view, separate attacks. The total potential payout is $7.1 billion, more than enough to build a fabulous new complex and leave a hefty profit for the Silverstein Group, including Larry Silverstein himself.
As reported in The Washington Post, the insurance company, Swiss Re, has gone to court to argue that the 9/11 disaster was only one attack, not two and that therefore the insurance payout should be limited to $3.55 billion, still enough to rebuild the complex.
Update: WTC Leaseholder May Collect Up To $4.6B
A federal jury on Monday ruled that the assault on the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center was in fact two occurrences for insurance purposes. The finding in U.S. District Court in Manhattan means leaseholder Larry Silverstein may collect up to $4.6 billion, according to reports.
The result of court ruling: Silverstein makes a huge profit off of the 9/11 attacks. (END)
Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it. (o:
And in answer to your question - YES - your US government controlled sources got it all wrong surprise surprise. (o:
of course he doesn't have his own opinion, he just repeats what bush tells him to. he only knows how to follow orders. he's a slave, and an accomplice to murder and neglegence causing death.
You blathering idiot, try making some sense for once on this forum, and while your at it say some prayers for forgiveness for your betrayal of all those innocent victims and their families who's memories you your fellow lie mercenaries are desecrating with every lie that you type on the net to protect the real PNAC terrorists and their psychopathic greed and power motivated mass murder of their fellow Americans.
"no escape from the mass mind rape
play it again jack and then rewind the tape
and then play it again and again and again
until your mind is locked in"
^^^You're losing it now and like I stated above try making some sense for once on this forum, and while your at it say some prayers for forgiveness for your betrayal of all those innocent victims and their families who's memories you your fellow lie mercenaries are desecrating with every lie that you type on the net to protect the real PNAC terrorists and their psychopathic greed and power motivated mass murder of their fellow Americans.
As I said before I was rudely interrupted by Mr 'I don't have a life' Islam hater the traitor.
^^^You're losing it now and like I stated above try making some sense for once on this forum, and while your at it say some prayers for forgiveness for your betrayal of all those innocent victims and their families who's memories you your fellow lie mercenaries are desecrating with every lie that you type on the net to protect the real PNAC terrorists and their psychopathic greed and power motivated mass murder of their fellow Americans.
then let me put this a little clearer:
we. don't. want. your. bush. propaganda. here.
I'll repeat.
LOL, Ken, read the ballot description.
He recieved 4.6 billion in insurance - as my source says, and as your referenceLESS piece of text also says.
It will cost far more than that to rebuild.
Or are you calling Forbes, Time, and NY Post liars?
What's your answer Ken?
So Ken, I assume that by reposting the same piece of text, you concede that you don't actually have your own opinion.
Copy and Paste, Copy and Paste!!!
"standing in line
believing the lies
bowing down to the flag
you got a bullet in your head"
{He recieved 4.6 billion in insurance -
by wolf_nipple_chips on Jul 15, 2006 12:55pm}
Yes, and he came out ahead. So far, he's no doubt making a tidy profit with that money. Only 13o million in rent PER YEAR is pocket change, and he doesn't have to rebuild a much more expensive building.
he does if he doesn't want somebody to slam a plane into it and kill a few thousand people
^^^Exactly Lovelynice (o:
Do you guys simply not want to understand that he didn't come out ahead because it doesn't fit into your conspiracy?
Of course he did come out ahead, here - read this and choke -
The truth is clearly hurting you Closetmind.
You obviously didn't read this because it just hurts you soooo much!
So I'll repeat it for you.
Silverstein Makes a Huge
Profit off of the 9/11 Attacks
Deal of the Year: World Trade Center, New York, NY
Weighing in at $3.2 billion, the acquisition of the 99-year leasehold of the World Trade Center was the largest of the year. "Notwithstanding the emotional difficulty of celebrating anything related to the World Trade Center is the fact that upon completion of its acquisition by Larry Silverstein, it was clearly the deal of the year for the industry, and now more than ever, a deal of lifetime for Silverstein" said Ken Zakin, managing director at Insignia/ESG. (that's Ken Zakin now nipple okay? Not me)
Six months before the 9/11 attacks the World Trade Center was "privatized" by being leased to a private sector developer. The lease was purchased by the Silverstein Group for $3.2 billion. "This is a dream come true," Larry Silverstein said. "We will be in control of a prized asset, and we will seek to develop its potential, raising it to new heights."
But the World Trade Towers were not the real estate plum we are led to believe.
From an economic standpoint, the trade center -- subsidized since its inception -- has never functioned, nor was it intended to function, unprotected in the rough-and-tumble real estate marketplace.
How could Silverstein Group have been ignorant of this?
Also, the towers required some $200 million in renovations and improvements, most of which related to removal and replacement of building materials declared to be health hazards in the years since the towers were built.
It was well-known by the city of New York that the WTC was an asbestos bombshell. For years, the Port Authority treated the building like an aging dinosaur, attempting on several occasions to get permits to demolish the building for liability reasons, but being turned down due the known asbestos problem. Further, it was well-known the only reason the building was still standing until 9/11 was because it was too costly to disassemble the twin towers floor by floor since the Port Authority was prohibited legally from demolishing the buildings.
Other New York developers had been driven into bankruptcy by the costly mandated renovations, and $200 million represented an entire year's worth of revenues from the World Trade Towers.
The perfect collapse of the twin towers changed the picture.
Under a pending agreement, a developer and his investors will get back most of the down payment that they made to lease the World Trade Center just six weeks before a terrorist attack destroyed the twin towers. Developer Larry Silverstein and investors Lloyd Goldman and Joseph Cayre are nearing a deal that would give them about $98 million of their original investment of $124 million, The New York Times reported Saturday.
Instead of renovation, Silverstein is rebuilding, funded by the insurance coverage on the property which 'fortuitously' covered acts of terrorism. Even better, Silverstein filed TWO insurance claims for the maximum amount of the policy, based on the two, in Silverstein's view, separate attacks. The total potential payout is $7.1 billion, more than enough to build a fabulous new complex and leave a hefty profit for the Silverstein Group, including Larry Silverstein himself.
As reported in The Washington Post, the insurance company, Swiss Re, has gone to court to argue that the 9/11 disaster was only one attack, not two and that therefore the insurance payout should be limited to $3.55 billion, still enough to rebuild the complex.
Update: WTC Leaseholder May Collect Up To $4.6B
A federal jury on Monday ruled that the assault on the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center was in fact two occurrences for insurance purposes. The finding in U.S. District Court in Manhattan means leaseholder Larry Silverstein may collect up to $4.6 billion, according to reports.
The result of court ruling: Silverstein makes a huge profit off of the 9/11 attacks. (END)
Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it. (o:
And in answer to your question - YES - your US government controlled sources got it all wrong surprise surprise. (o:
I guess you answered my question.
God this ballot is so amusing.
Watch the conspiracy theorists struggle with a simple concept and a simple bit of maths.
Voted : Yes
Watch all the movies at:
truth911 . net
belowground surface . org
Watch 9/11 Mysteries and
Improbable Collapse
Scientists found evidence of
thermite (thermate) steel cutting
charge byproducts, used to cut the
steel of the 3 WTC buildings that
collapsed.
Cleanup crews had to wait several
weeks to clean out the basements,
because the 3 WTC buildings that
collapsed on 9/11 each had giant
pools of orange-hot (700-1100 C)
once-molten metal under the debris,
which stayed very hot for up to
SIX WEEKS after 9/11.
Remember that for metal to melt, it
requires temperatures above 1532 C,
but air fires cannot heat metals
above 600 C, but typically only
heat up metals to about 233-300 C.
(Not enough to melt glass or even
Aluminium; at 660 C melting point)
Also, air fire cannot make solid
concrete EXPLODE even before the
downward movements of the buildings
even start.
Steel columns at Ground Zero and at
the ground levels of all WTC
buildings that collapsed, appear
sliced along straight edges with
black melted metal near the edges,
where the cut edges are at 45-60
degrees, to allow easy collapse of
the steel columns. (Typical of
most controlled demolition
operations)
All of the above FACTS are clearly
seen on collapse videos & photos
taken by clean up crews and eye
witnesses.
Big steel columns from the twin
towers were flung long distances,
hundreds of meters away, and ended
up embedded in the sides of other
tall buildings. How could these
steel columns generate so much
horizontal acceleration forces,
when gravity only points downwards?
Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang
sounds, occurring in rapid
succession, can be heard as you see
horizontal explosions shooting out
of the North Tower, just before it
collapses. (Watch the 9/11
documentary very closely and listen
for the sounds)
Molten iron metal is seen dripping
out of the South Tower (indicating
> 1532C + temperatures created by
a chemical cutting process, eg.
like thermate reacting with the
steel columns to weaken them all).
(MOLTEN IRON because it glowed
white and yellow hot, unlike silver
or grey, the colour of molten
Aluminium). This molten iron was
melted away by thermate at those
45-60 degree angles, just before
the explosions were detonated in
rapid sequence, to weaken ALL
north, south, east & west walls of
columns SIMULTANEOUSLY in order to
allow a vertical free-fall collapse
to occur (without allowing the
towers to lean over on an angle
which could destroy neighbouring
buildings)...
Watch it all on the 9/11 Mysteries
video.
truth911 . org
The Bush Administration's defenders of their official 9-11 propaganda have never answered these questions;
Where's some real video of a huge plane hitting the Pentagon? You can't show any.
When is that you are you going to explain how it is possible for all the supports on a floor (both the undamaged structural supports and the damaged ones in varying amounts of damage), to fail on all sides of a building - at the exact same time - not just in 1 building, but in all 3 buildings on the same day?
When is that you are you going to provide links, quotes, and sources to back your claims about the cellphones, and show a scientific study that shows that cellphones can make successful many-minutes-long calls from passenger jets flying at passenger jet speeds, and at passenger jet altitudes?
When is that you are you going to cite any event where steel-framed hi-rises collapsed straight-down into their bases any time in the entire history of steel-framed hi-rise buildings without a controlled demolition being the cause - apart from the 3 buildings of 9-11 (WTC 1, 2, 7)?
When will you back your point of view about 9-11 with a link, source, and quote from somebody, anybody, whose mathematical simulation or computer simulation based on the empirical data (without distortion, deviation, or bullshit fictions) proves that there was enough energy for a gravity-driven collapse?
Please explain WHY if it was floors collapsing, then how the explosions were blowing out floors BEFORE those floors from above could reach them? This is visible on the videos in slow motion - you can see such on this video showing explosions going off many stories below the collapse, and eyewitness accounts of secondary explosions as well as their reporting of the first big explosions happening BELOW the plane impact point. Witnesses confirm this;
video . google . com / videoplay ? docid = 3249714675910247150 & q = 911 & h l = en
Please explain why the seismic tremors were shorter than the collapse times, and cite at least a couple of geologists and/seismic experts explaining this - because according to everyone I've asked, this is impossible and shows that the energy source for the tremors was not the collapsing buildings but could only be from another source (explosions).
You've been asked to provide real answers to many of these questions asked by Ken from Dublin, Lovelynice, Meteor7, Coldcircuit, Blackcat06, Tank Girl, but you have never answered them
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