COMMENTS:
Of course, in order to discern if one was "brainwashed," one would have to be certain that they weren't "brainwashed," themselves. And how could that be done? Exactly.
The problem is that each side of every conceivable position thinks that they have the market on truth, and that the other side is "brainwashed" or some such.
Religion is full of this kind of thinking. It's either right or wrong, good or bad, in or out with these folks. No room for the middle, and if you don't agree with them, then it's off to the fires and torments of eternal damnation for you.
Generally, when one expresses inflexible, absolutist, certain views, he/she is "brainwashed."
How about you, Freon? You aren't inflexible, absolutist are you? Hmmmmm?
What was it Will Rogers, the country comedian of the 30's used to say? "All I know is what I read in the paper." We're all in something of the same boat here: We choose our news sources and believe them or not. We have no real way of discerning absolute truth.
Then what you are saying griff, is that truth does not exist and that everything is relative...if that's the case then i guess nothing really matters and life is as purposeless as the cosmos itself?!
Just the ones who think the 17 hijackers acted alone on 911 and the ones who believe in the so-called war on terror, which is just a way for bush to push his agenda further, is actually a war on terror.
by seon on Wed Jul 26, 06 5:49pm
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Uhm... I'm staying quiet.
Al Qeada doesn't exist? That statement is so obsurd it warrants only a laugh.
The way a Teacher explained it to is was that it was a case something like a safe haven principle. In other words, we tend to live in a very safe country. Our government for the most part is benevolent (even if stupid) and we enjoy a great deal of freedom. We as a nation have not lived under opression or abuse and we have really, for the most part, never been threatened by a foreign power. He explained that its like the super rich who live in giant compounds, surrounding by gates and protected by security...they tend to become somewhat detached from the reality of what happens outside their secure lives. American culture has been one of benevolence and security. Lots of people in other countries think we are somewhat naive. We are. Its not that Americans are intentionally oblivous, its just that it is part of our psyche to believe in good and to believe we are a nation that helps people. Face it, none of us WANTS to admit that our President and his administration may be up to no goo. Do we? No.
Americans also tend to be generous and want to genuienly help people, so there are some that truly believe we "liberated" the Iraqi people from a dictator. Deep down ALL of us know that a war was NOT the way, but it goes so against our core beliefs to admit that our government went about it all wrong, that most just can't accept it, so they cling to an ideology.
In reality, its also more the heartland people that are this way. People on the coasts are very cynical of our government and tend to expose themselves to world news. In the mid-west and the Bible belt, they're mentality tends to be more narrow-minded, so they will watch Fox news and believe whatever that moron Bill O'Reilly says.
Al Qeada doesn't exist is like saying Bush never recieved a warning that Binladen was up to something before 911.
by seon on Wed Jul 26, 06 7:49pm
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Patches....very keen insight. Seon and Corrupt...the fact is that there is no evidence whatsoever of an Al-Quaeda "network" that spans the globe plotting against America...period. If there is any "network" it is a very loosely tied group of Jihadists who probably couldn't fight their way out of a paper sack, much less learn to fly 757's from training on Cessna's(which they weren't even successful at). Furthermore, "Al-Quaeda" is a term created by the US government in there McCarthyist witchhunt. Bin-Laden probably chuckles everytime he is referred to as "Al-Quaeda". Wake up dude. Look at the evidence its there in PLANE Site. You might also want to look into how much of the world's gold bullion that was stored in the WTC came up missing......hmmmm? Or better yet, the fact that on 9/11 the Bin-Laden family in Florida was the only plane allowed to leave the ground....or how Bin-Laden, to this day, has never been produced and continues (supposedly) to make videos, but hey we did get Saddam! Who had no weapons of mass destruction nor did he have any hand in the "attacks" on America according the government itself! Let's see....Bush Sr. attacks Iraq to "prevent tyranny:)"...Clinton comes in and war disappears...yet he is shredded by the neo-cons, even suggesting an impeachment based on the fact that he diddled the secretary! What a farce! Then Bush Jr. comes in and lo and behold we're back in Iraq for no good reason other than neo-con conquests to get rich on oil and war. Meanwhile, thousands and thousands of Iraquis and Americans are dying....if you don't see the pattern yet you are a blind fool! Wake the fuck up dude and realize you've been had!
Al-Quaeda may have been given its name by the United States Defense Department, but it was not thought up out of the blue by it.
And, for the record, I agree with patch's comment.
Freon have you been watching "Loose Change" because alot of your ideas seem to match that film.The gold bullion that was under the WTC was recovered in full,check the wikipedia article about Loose change.
Second on 9/11 the Bin Laden family was not flown out of the country that is an urban legend.Check snopes.com under legends about 9/11 and see what I'm talking about.
Moreover why would Bush want to attack his own citizens;what would he have to gain?Money?Bush is already a wealthly man so why would he need to kill people to make more money?Perhasp power then; well Bush won the Presidency in 00 arguably the most powerful position on the planet so that does not seem likely either.So why do you think Bush was behind 9/11?
Freon also has a finely tuned talent for wholesale sophistry. But, I do agree with one thing; people she take the time to become better informed. Starting with you...Freon
^^^Should^^^ not she
I still believe Al-Quaeda carried out 911. There’s no evidence to support that it was carried out by the American government and the American government alone.
However I believe the American government aided Al-Quaeda because 17 Arab hijackers (or was it 19?) can not make NORAD stand down and they can not make the pentagon start a war game on the morning of 911 to confuse NORAD and they cant make f16’s not surround the hijacked planes which is what there flight manual says.
by seon on Thu Jul 27, 06 12:03am
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Corrupt the binladen family was flown out of the country on 911. Ok it was on a private jet and private jets were allowed to fly but that’s not the point.
by seon on Thu Jul 27, 06 12:13am
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No seon there where no flights out on 9/11,the FAA grounded all flights except for essential aircafts (military and emergency resecue).The 9/11 commision said this in their formal report and there is no evidence to support this claim.Where is the proof that the Bin Laden family was flown out of the U.S on 9/11?Are there memos or some kinda of record that shows that the FAA gave the plane carrying the Bin Ladens permission to fly on 9/11?
When the media is controlled by rich conservatives, the inevitable result is that the people are going to be led down the garden path.
^LOL is that the same conservative media that Maureen Dow,Chris Matthews,Helen Thomas and Gegore Gregorry are in?
Absolutely, most Americans have been conditioned by the media and we know who runs that little circus. 
For one I am an American if you couldn't tell by my fucking name. I watch bbc world which would not be considered American tv. Then again I do watch cnn which has no difference from BBC other than BBC is more direct in world news while CNN rambles on local stuff. Two I am not brainwashed and Freon you have already come off as an ignorant immature juvenile asshole as to claim that the us government based on Christian beliefs has commited mass murder on the Iraqi people. Yes there has been some accidental casualties but 85% of Iraqi civilians who have been killed are from insurgents with IED's. Now I already don't like you with your views on 9/11. I just wish your scrawny little ass had been in one of the towers. maybe your views wouldn't be so...controversial. just for the record American news such as CNN has been credited as being some of the most un-bias news networks in the world. During the Iraq war some country in Europe I forget which was bias agianst the Americans. When information of the opposite oppinion was added it was quickly censored by the government. This caused riots of people condeming the USA in that paticular country that I know was from Europe. It was luxembourg or maybe Sweden. So don't tell me American news is brainwashing assholes. There is constant debates over weather the war is good or bad. Now I know I am gonna catch hell for this but I don't give a shit it was worth it so bring on the -karmas I don't care.
wow Freon i looked at your page and i am ashamed that you hail from the USA. well maybe 9/11 didn't affect you that much from Knoxville, TN but I could see the smoke and shit from my house so really you should not express your views openly if you plan on visiting the East coast/ Tri state area any time soon.
Don't mind him Freon, we who know the truth consider you to be a true American patriot with America's best interests at heart.
lol...sure
might i ask what the truth is Ken_from_Dublin
not if you want an honest answer
But private flights were allowed to fly out. I guess if the 911 commission said it then it must be true. Just like anything bush says must be true.
by seon on Thu Jul 27, 06 5:51pm
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might i ask what the truth is Ken_from_Dublin
by USRocks....
Therein lies the problem 'Rock with respect, go to my homepage and read what I have posted there.
Start questioning, questioning, questioning 'Rock instead of passively accepting!
Use your mind, your brains, your heart and your head for salvation!!!
you do not question, keny boy.
"On the morning of September 11, 2001, George W. Bush's father, George H. W. Bush, was meetingwith Osama bin Laden's brother, Shafig bin Laden, in the Ritz-Carlton Hotel, Washington, on Carlyle Group business. Two days later, 13 bin Ladens were cleared by the White House to fly out of the United States when overseas flights were again cleared for departure. The New York Times reported that they were quickly called together by officials from the Saudi Embassy, which feared that they might become the victims of American reprisals. With approval from the F.B.I., according to a Saudi official, the bin Ladens flew by private jet from Los Angeles to Orlando, then on to Washington, D.C. and finally to Boston. Once the FAA permitted overseas flights, the jet flew to Europe." -wiki
"85% of Iraqi civilians who have been killed are from insurgents with IED"
I have a feeling that statistic was made up. If it wasn't, prove me wrong.
"American news such as CNN has been credited as being some of the most un-bias news networks in the world"
Please tell me what organization reached that conclusion, and please tell me that FOX News wasn't in their list of "unbiased" American news channels.
"During the Iraq war some country in Europe I forget which was bias agianst the Americans. When information of the opposite oppinion was added it was quickly censored by the government."
Few peopole will take that comment seriously unless you can:
1. Remember the name of the European country
2. Cite some form of news coverage on it
And my take on 9/11 is that it was carried out by Al-Quaeda, but helped by the United States' government's inaction.
That was a simple version of my take on 9/11. The real one's not that short lol.
ha ha corupt score one for the good guys.
by seon on Fri Jul 28, 06 12:30am
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USRocks, even Neothe1 believes that Bush knew in advance about the 9/11 attacks, and that he used them to facilitate a war in Iraq, I can direct you to his comments if you don't believe me!
Alas, brainwashing by the media and govt is not confined to the US...
for the last time, i don't believe anything.
i don't really care what you think himself...i did not make it up you can believe me or not. i know it is the truth and people not beliveng me just proves my point.
^that coment was directed towards himself809
I will believe once you cite a credible source for all the "facts" that you use.
From the official 9/11 Commission report: "First we found no evidence that any flights of Saudi nationals,domestic or international,took place before the reopening of national airspace on the morning of September 13,2001.To the contrary,every flight we have identified occurred after national airspace reopened."
Were is your proof that Saudi nationals and or the Bin Landen family was flown out of America before the reopening of national airports on 9/13/06?
Voted : Freon is a true American Patriot!
The proof that the Bin Laden's were flown out of the country on 9/11 was on every American news channel, admitted by the government, admitted by Saudi Prince Kandar (or whatev the fuck his name is... you know, Bush's best buddy) and is an accepted fact! So USCOCK... get your facts straight dude, oh, and wake up you brainwashed douche! I'll bet your daddy was mean to you growing up huh? Is he in the military? Are you? Well let me ask you this...WHAT THE FUCK DID IRAQ HAVE TO DO WITH 9/11?
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