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crime : crime :
[+] ballot by flagrantviolator

Just interested in what people think. Please don't sabotage the poll. I'm trying to get at something here.
So why did the Allies fight against Germany in 1938? What started it?

Hitler bombing Britain
The Holocaust against the Jews.
The Invasion of Poland

Ballot #17920 : SEE RESULTS

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Submitted by : flagrantviolator
Submitted on : Feb 10,2004 2:19:55 am
ballot title:

What was the Reason for WW2?

ballot number:17920
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D. None of the above.
This is what happened see..Someone stole hitlers nosehair trimmer which sent him into an evil killing spree. After finding that he accidentaly left it up his ass, he then continued to fight for a lost cause and the rest, is history.
1938? In that year the allies did everything to refrain from war - climaxed in munich convension, in which Czechoslovakia was sacrificed to appease Hitler. Do you have a secret point? Or is it honest mistake?
Anyway, the holocaust in its known form - the final solution hadn't started untill june 1941, at the invasion to the USSR.

God point yosi. The truth is that in the end was first stupidity, when they alowed Hitler to take everything that he wanted and stupid pride when they promis Poland protection and, despite abandoning Tzechoslovakia in march 1939 (under there protection after Munich accord), they decided (in march 1939) that they must protect her, not to lose face. And worse they suported the polish gov. in his foolish policy twords Germany, in such a way that an accord was made imposible. This opinion belongs to gen. Basill Liddel Hart, who is considerd the best military analist of Britain. If you want to talk more and explain my opinion e-mail me.
The versailles treaty which germany had to sign for losing WW1 made them pay about $6billion in reparations (a shit load in those days!!!!) this caused germany to fall into economic depression, which led to domestic political conflict, which gave rise to Adolf Hitler, who was a power hungry facist arsehole hell bent on world domination- Hitler invades Poland etc....
hahahaha dingleberrys comment is fuckin hilarious!!! but mainly the allies attacked the axis powers cuz he said he would not take over any more land and he lied and took poland. BUT I KNOW ENGLAND_PATRIOT IS GONNA COME ON THIS POLE AND CORRECT ME!!!
Czechoslovakia was not not "sacrificed to appease Hitler". The Czech people voted to join Germany. Hitlers invasion of Poland was the start of WW2 as there was not a majority of people in Poland who wanted to join Germany (unlike Czechoslovakia and Austria).
The truth?
Maybe the sudet region citinzens truely wanted to join Germany, their homeland, but I'm sure that no Czechs wanted it, cause they were the dominant force in that shaky union called Czechoslovakia. Maybe the slovakians and other minorities did wanted it to happen, so they can fulfill their national asspirations, like the slovakians actually did shortly after the munich convention. But anyway, the sacrifice of Czechoslovakia was against the alliance signed by France and Czech. to stop German agression and expansion.
It was British and French fear of a repeat of WW1. They could'nt have cared less about poor old Poland, no more than the League of Nations cared about Abbysinia. It was the sight of Germany flexing her muscles that made them act. They wanted to contain the Germans but the French army put an end to that.
by OJD [+]

Erm, hmmm..ide say power hungry madmen?
Naturally, the common people don’t want war, but after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.” – Hermann Goering. Hitler’s Reich-Marshall at the Nuremberg Trials after WWII
The real reason for WW2 was that the Jews got America caught up in the war. A real sham.
it was 1939
It was a secret plot by Europenas to guilt America into the Marshall plan to rebuild Europe after WW1.

It worked very well and explains why much of Europe looks better than America.

everyone knows it was the goddamn jews fault
because your mom's ass is too big
flagrantsviolators mum dropped her panty drawers on the left side of the Vistula and the allies thought that the Germans dropped a 'dirty bomb' on Warsaw.
Well, the whole thing goes back to the dawn of civilization. The first agricultural revolution allowed people to settle down and create cities. No major change occurred in people's lives until the 1700s. In the early 1700s, a second agricultural revolution led to a change in farm life. People were laid off from farm jobs due to new technology, so they traveled to cities and helped spur the Industrial Revolution. In the 1800s, newly industrialized countries like Germany and the United Kingdom embarked on campaigns to "civilize" and industrialize other parts of the world. This imperialism led to intense jealousy, which led to all-out war in 1914. After the war, the Allies unfairly placed all of the blame for the war on Germany. With the Versailles Treaty, Germany was stripped of its colonies and its economy faltered. This, coupled with the weakness of the Weimar Republic, led to the rise of Adolf Hitler, whose expansionist policies and overall twisted dream for Germany ultimately led to World War II. You're asking what was the reason for World War II? Civilization.
People were not aware of the holocause until after the war. Hitler only bombed Britian because we declared war on him. It was the invasion of poland and other countries.
somewhere I think the the wall street crash which caused mass unemployment, highly effective propaganda which led to Hitler's rise to power. Coupled with Hitler's rise to power and his agressive foreign policy comes into it somewhere.
Reason for WW2.
America's failure to recognise that too much mass production coupled with high taxation on European goods which led to high taxation on American goods which fucked up the circle of prosperity once everybody had a car in every garage and a chicken? in every pot.
Reason for WW2
The people who decided that taxation of European goods was a good idea.

The treaty of Versaille strangled the German people. Hitler didn't creat the hate fillings but just used them to his own advantages. And AMerica had nothing to do with the start of the war in Europe.
I really think you'll find it was the depression.
The Depression happened because American industry overproduced goods, America was manufacturing a lot of household goods like TVs, Cars, Fridges, phones etc. The trouble with making these kinds of goods is that after everybody had one you didn't need another. America couldn't export these goods because someone (presumably someone in your government) had made sure European goods were heavily taxed so that Americans would buy American goods, it had the intended effect but in response Europe heavily taxed American goods and when the time came that America needed to export they had no market.
This meant that The circle of Prosperity got fucked up.
Investment in industry>
More goods produced>
More goods sold>
More investment industry.
You see the problem with one thing went wrong it all went wrong.
This coupled with many Americans buying on credit led to depression
Basically you fucked yourselves.
Unfortunately Germany who had been enjoying a revival powered by the American dollar were fucked by the American government asking for it's money back.
Germany then plummeted into a depression in which Hitler exploited the millions of unemployed and gained power this led to WW2.
Whoever taxed European goods is to blame almost as much as Hitler.
Were you born without a clue or sommat.
Or have your movies or TV or teachers filled your head with bullshit.
You obviously don't even know about the circumstances in which Hitler came to power.
Ever heard of the Weimar Republic?

Hitler came ot power after a failed revolution and after his book "Mien Kemp" was published and gathered him a following. Surprising that this all came from an art student that was rejected from his colege of choice.

Wow, you've actually had to change history so that the blame of WW2 falls on are solidears instead of yours, wow. Woodrow Wilson sadi in his 14 points that you should not make germany give reprations for the war and that the blame should be shared by all, what did you do, you didn't listen and the German economy was a shame from the start because all the money eventually left Germany and lined your pockets. And instad of coming in 1933 when hitler became cancellour your country went into an appeasement mode and left Hitler rearm, expand his country, create the Autobahn making rapid troop deployment possible. America has done so not so great things but don't put this on our shoulders.

Hitler's following came from fucking millions of unemployed.
He promised them jobs and bread.
You think he gained such a large following from appealing to political extremists.
You're an even bigger dumbass than I thought.

Germany's economic problems were stabilized overtime.
After the mark was issued Germany started to experience a period of prosperity funded by the dollar.
Thats why I said ever heard of the fucking Weimar Republic
The depression Germany went through which caused millions of unemployed was caused by the Wall Street Crash.
Yeah Germany recovered and then for no apparent reason slipped into depression or were the years between 1924/5-1929 invisible.
I think you'll also find that the tough terms of the Treaty of Versaille were France's conditions.
We took a mediocre approach.
Puinshed but to no where near the extent that France wanted and they got their way.
I think you'll also find Hitler's book was called Mein Kampf.
I think you'll also find a base of support is needed to start a reveloution.
Everything Hitler did before the war was right. Except for influence in the schools and churches.
Building the autobahns included. He unfucked what the depression did to Germany.
He got into power by promising to give people jobs and feed the people.
He did exactly that.
Yeah I'm sure our soldiers (spell it right dickhead) had something to do with it.
Our soldiers had no more to do with it than yours.
Yeah I'm sure we were lining our pockets.
What a warped position you hold of the world.
You make it sound like we were robbing the elderly.
We were taking money from a country that had left a country in ruins and another country bankrupt.
In my opinion that money was ours to take. Whatever the consequences
Yeah you do have a very good point on appeasement.
Churchill saw it coming.
You should consider the consequences though.
We had just been through a war which had ruined the three giants or Europe, no-one wanted another war because we didn't meet demands that were quite reasonable.
They demanded territory back for example the Sudetenland that the Treaty of Versailles had took from them and many saw the treaty as unfair and therefore many had sympathy.
Another example the occupation of the Rhineland many peoples attitude was are we really gonna start another war becuase German troops marched back into what was their own territory.
The policy of appeasement is to blame but I think the Wall Street Crash is far more to blame than appeasement.

Wow, is all that anger just for lttle old me, i'm blushing. When france was making all those extreme punishment where was Britian?

The truth is that Hitler gathered support thru his radical beliefs that were already an underlying theme in Europe. Hitler gained support thru these beliefs and then became widely popular from making promises. Yeah he did get the people jobs.

Your not that stupid, i know you've made many good points but to think that the crash of 1929 resulted in Hitler resurrgance than your dumbfounded. And Hitler Came to power in 1933 and the depression didn't reach it's height until 1932 in America. That means that Germany wouldn't have enough time to fully feel the results of the Depression.

Where was America.
At the exact same meeting.
You didn't do fuck all neither.
France had the moral high ground it's country had been ripped apart by war.
No Hitler's policies appealed to the masses thats why he got in.
They appealed to millions of unemployed, farmers, industrialists. Not just Political extremists.
You are in denial of facts.
Go and research how much the rate if unemployment increased in Germany after the Wall Street Crash and the numbers before the Wall Street Crash.
To say this is a denial of the world going through depression after The Wall Street Crash.
Say whatever and believe whatever you want and I'll do the same the only difference being I know I'm right.

Google search this
depression wall street crash germany unemployment hitler
Second one down.
Now if that doesn't convince you probably nothing will.

In fact check the first one as well for good unemployment figures.
Actually all of the links listed say pretty much the same thing.
Yeah and it also said this, "This was because Germany depended upon the Dawes Plan for loans from the USA to help repay the Reparations set by the Treaty of Versailles." So the money that the U.S. Was giving them was not helping Germany in any way because it was just leaveing to line the allies pockets. And Woodrow Wilson was opposed to such harsh conditions on to Germany and mentioned it many times taking an approach similiar that Abe Lincoln wanted to take with the south after the Civil War. Hitler or someone would of came to power with or without the crash anyways.
If you actually believe that then you're an even bigger idiot thst I thought possible.
I choose to believe another part of the argrument. You said that the main reason for Hitler's coming to power was the Crash of 1929 and I've proven that the harsh conditions of the Versailles treaty was a bigger reason.

To put it in simple terms if a person makes 200 dollars a week and neesd to pay 150 of that to a bank and the person is never truly finiacail secure to start with when the company that he's working for cuts his pay to 150 dollars who was the first and main problem for the person, the bank AKA the versailles treaty.

You think you've proven anything. I've just give you a huge number of links that all say differently.
What your word is better than mine and hundreds of others.
You obviously have no idea of fundamentally how a country is run.
The loans were aimed at rebuilding the Germany's industry. To make Germany self-dependable again.

This was achieved and had the American banks not panicked and requested all their loan money back at once (which really is unacceptable as the loans had been lent over quite a few years and the loans had no fixed date of repayment) instead of a steady repayment then Germany would have fully recovered.
This meant the economy crashed instantly.
Germany would have been better off never having accepted a loan and therefore would have recovered slower but it wouldn't have been dependant on the dollar and therefore the Crash wouldn't have hit them that hard.

May I also point out that at the height of the effects of The Treaty of Versailles - 1923. That unemployment reached only 8.34% compared to what it was after The Wall Street Crash - 22.5%

You go on about Woodrow Wilson thinking the terms were too harsh but so did Britain yet neither did nothing about it, yet despite America being just as guilty here you attribute the blame to Britain instead of Britain and America and why should you do that when it was France who set the harsh term.
It is enivitable that eventually that Britain would have reduced the reparations.
The fact that Britain thought the terms were too harsh is shown by the fact that Britain refused to support the Belgian and French occupation of the Ruhr and by sources from as early as 1919.
But of course you're probably not used to seeing historical sources or anything that doesn't show America in a positive manner.

But whatever, I know you won't change your mind whatever I say.

"America in a positive manner"

I've said many times that my country isn't perfect, we have made many mistakes, but the rise of Hitler isn't one of them. I attribute the blame more to Britain and France because that was your war, not AMerica's war we entered really late and really did nothing so we souldn't of been resposible for preventing the next fiasco that engulfs your continent.

Would Hitler or someone like him rise to power if the Stock market crash never happened? No one knows but it's a good possiblity.
The Reichstag had proportional representation.
These are figures of how many seats the Nazi Party had before and after the Crash
Before the Crash
Nazi party
1928 - 12 seats
Immediately after the crash
1930 - 107 seats
1932 - 230 seats
The Nazi Party (Nationalist Socialist Party) was etablished in 1921.
Between 1921-1928, 7 years they gained just 12 seats.
But in just two years they gained 95 seats or in 4 years they gained 218 seats.
What for no reason.
I have my history book here with me and it shows a graph from 1928-1938 and there is almost exact correlation between unemployment and votes for the Nazi Party.
I believe, hundreds of others that have written essays on published them on the web for which I have given links for believe and better Historians than you or I believe that without the Wall Street Crash Hitler would not have come to power.

Why do you atribute more blame to Britain that is just stupid.
Britain didn't set those harsh terms.
America stood back exactly the same as Britain and let them set the terms.
You were just as guilty as us.
The German economy was recovering naturally.
Did we invade and cause hyperinflation that made the Dawes plan nessecery.
No but the French and Belgians did. Notice the Belgians are absent.
Did we support the invasion.
No just as America didn't
Did we stop the invasion.
No we didn't just as America didn't.
Did Britain agree to the Young's plan and extend repayments of reperations.
Yes we did.
Did Americans overproduce goods and overtax European goods that cause the Wall Street Crash and subsequently a world depression.
Yes you did.
Did we demand our loans back to Germany back.
Did you
Did you demand it all in one payment instead of a gradual repayment.
Yes you did

Fact is we carry far less blame than France, America and even the Belgians.
At the end of the day I think we can agree the cause for WW2 was Hitler and his agressive foreign policy.
But if you include as to whether someone is guilty for not stopping him getting into power.
Then whoever ordered taxation of European goods is as guilty as Hitler.
As for whether a country is to blame.
No it isn't would you like to be held responsible for the actions of one American.

The America in a positive manner comment wasn't directed at you it was directed at Hollywood bullshit, a biased media and judging from the sheer amount of ignorance about WW2 and world affairs in general, a biased education system.

I think in the main you're pretty impartial (more impartial than me anyway), if not a little ignorant.

I'll give you the Hollywood bullshit because yeah it sucks and they ruined what could of been a great movie in Pearl Harbour into a laugher. Are media is bias, but what media isn't there trying to sell a product and the only way to do that is a spin.
The best answer to the question as to what gave Hitler power was Hitler. Hitler was a great speaker, period no questions asked. He is possibly the best all time, and he could bend a mass of people to his will. Form a fiery of points to his relaxe after moments to straighten his hair and calm himself he was the perfect showman. Every country is to blame for his rise to power (more than others) the serious of appeasement to the berlin olmypics of 1936 that seemed to to approve of the excistance of Hitler to the rest of the world. He arrived at the right time where his promises could take root in a stuggling country and his hatred of the jews was an underlying theme of hate in Europe of centuries earlier and was felt by many.

Hitler is the most responsible for making Hitler.

What you still don't believe that unemployment was responsible for Hitler getting into power.

I'm never going to convince you am I

ego, power, greed on Hitler's part, even his own (regular) troops didnt approve of what was going on. And he thought that everyone who wasnt of the pure race had dirty ass feet.
These were events after the start of the war, not it's cause. The humiliation of Germany by the French after WWI, and the crippling reparations imposed, which destroyed the German economy were what enraged the German people and allowed Hitler to come to power. The Jews prospered through that inter-war devastation. Jews in the US had made huge profits from the carnage in Europe, thus their 'unpopularity'. Hitler intended to deport the Jews from Europe to Madagascar. The Allies made this plan impossible.
you have all been deceived by your school systems or propaganda.
I have masses of evidence.
You have only words and speculation.
All I can say is
1928 - 12 seats
Immediately after the crash
1930 - 107 seats
1932 - 230 seats
The Nazi Party (Nationalist Socialist Party) was etablished in 1921.
Between 1921-1928, 7 years they gained just 12 seats.
But in just two years they gained 95 seats or in 4 years they gained 218 seats.
What for no reason.

May I also point out that at the height of the effects of The Treaty of Versailles - 1923. That unemployment reached only 8.34% compared to what it was after The Wall Street Crash - 22.5%

to end the world depression, eliminate poulation, put everyone to work
by ABC [+]

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