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Submitted by : Steelhamster
Submitted on : Jan 17,2009 1:14:07 am
We are all atheists, I just believe in one less god than you? Yes/No
Well, as I have been called a pompous blowhard by on of the members of B&W, can I put myself forward? ;-)
go for it - the world craves new idols
geez it's late - tootle-loo
Voted : No, I am a theist
Again, I know that Deity is parked Up There.
Stress "parked", as in "not moving".
I doubt that atheists are better or worse than anyone else.
Voted : I have another view
Why would anyone believe that there is or isn't a God?
Why choose,in human ignorance, when you can be agnostic?
^same reason you choose to believe or not to believe in witches, ghosts or fairies(without any evidence).
If I believe in all gods and you believe in one less god than me that makes you religious. No?
Do you people really put God in the same class as witches, ghosts and fairies?
^Believing in witches, ghosts and fairies would be silly, wouldn't it?
"Do you people really put God in the same class as witches, ghosts and fairies?"
Why not? What is the separation? If I was to say that I believe a fairy created the heavens and earth and all that is, would you have the audacity to say that I was being foolish?
WE ARE ALL ATHEISTS, I JUST BELIEVE IN ONE LESS GOD THAN YOU? only if believe in religions with one god (unlike Hinduism for example.
"^same reason you choose to believe or not to believe in witches, ghosts or fairies(without any evidence)."
Basically I make no claim because while I don't buy the assorted stories of any religion I see no reason not to be open.
As if everything real is provable or even observable.
The only problem I might encounter over my position would be in the form of some authoritarian religious or atheist mob mentality.With the agnostic position there is no mob mentality to manifest.
Basically I make no claim because while I don't buy the assorted stories of any religion I see no reason not to be open. So are you open to witches, ghosts or fairies? I'm not, for the same reason of being atheist. Rationality.
^Yeah,when I position myself as open it's not open to "witches and fairies" or anything *remotely* like ANY pedestrian religious explanation.
My rejection of atheism does not make me irrational,to the contrary.Mine is a concession of my limitations.I do not claim what I cannot prove,IE that there is or isn't such a thing as a higher power.
Why aren't you open to witches, ghosts etc but are to gods?
I haven't really known many atheists in my life. There's been a few people over the years that I've worked with who have proclaimed to be atheist, but they usually ended up being the people I avoided. They present themselves with a superior attitude, and if I were to question them about their beliefs, they would turn hateful and hostile, never really giving me the chance to get to know them or anything about what they do or don't believe. I'm just curious.
Being on this site and reading the comments from the atheists here has at least given me the opportunity to listen to their point of view. They make a lot of good points, but it will never be enough to persuade me not to believe in God. The only thing I don't appreciate is being told that I'm silly or irrational in my beliefs. Is that really necessary?
The remark about believing in witches, ghosts or fairies being silly was to make a point. Most people would tend agree that believing in those things is silly. But gods, as you stated, deserve to be treated in a different class of unprovable things.
Yes, I do take believing in witches, ghosts, fairies and gods irrational. I'm sorry if that offends you but I'm not trying to hurt you I'm simply stating my opinion. You may feel that I'm a jerk for expressing it but I'm being honest.
"Why aren't you open to witches, ghosts etc but are to gods?"
As I explained already,I have given up on any conventional idea of a god just as I reject belief in witches.I'm not even sure if my considerations of higher power can even be defined as "god" or even higher for that matter...when I say considerations they are just that,thoughts I entertain.
You cannot equate my ever-exploring universal thoughts with any kind of endorsement for a god.You are chasing your tale here.
Maybe you feel your hand is forced,that I lumped the irrationality of religion with atheism.I do think for the most part atheists are more rational people but myself I cannot shut the door on possibilities beyond my understanding.I see there are those who do and for me I cannot see the rationality.
Like the old adage goes,(not applied as a harsh snub)
It is the dull man who is always sure, and the sure man who is always dull.
But you are not ruling out a higher power which still begs the question of why not?
But you are not ruling out a higher power which still begs the question of why not (if the other supernatural things can be ruled out).
Voted : There is but one God,
He holds the power of procreation, love and divine truth, beyond the scope of reason, logic or calculation.
When you can equate a formula to solve the addition of genetic code,Two people becoming one soul, you can claim God doesn't exist, K?
Until then, I'd suggest you humble thyself!
Read the Bible OPEN-MINDEDLY, and see that the Lord only want mankind to; 1) Love one another, 2) Love Unity, and 3) Be Humble toward one to another. Please try to respest each other, w/o insult, arrogance or pride.
^ Haha, the exact opposite of everything you stand for. Hypocrite.
^ Sometimes. I lay no claim to perfection.
Voted : Yes, I am an atheist
I believe in string theory, statistics, numbers and physics. You know, stuff that there's actually proof of.
Voted : No, I am a theist
Steelhamster's confidence is misplaced. Especially if the best he can do to convince people there is no God is by boldly claiming that God is "more or less" a "complete fallacy".
If even the "pompous blowhard" Steelhamster cannot categorically deny God properly what chance have the rest of you got?
So why is it "more or less" a fallacy, Steelhamster? Surely God (or a god etc. etc.) is a COMPLETE fallacy?
^ ok i think i can speak for steelhamster here. Ok it is a complete fallacy. the term more or less was in context to the idea of proof of non existance rather than saying god may on may not exist.
Why cant you see that grimble?
Or is it a constant in your logic that you twist other peoples words to make you appear smarter than you actually are?
The fact of gods non existance is more or less proveable. The actual existance of god however is completely falacious.
That doesnt mean there is nothing out there it just means its not your god.
It's quite simple really.
Just to clear up any misunderstanding.... I reject all gods, and it is up to theists to prove the existence of a deity, it is not for atheists to do so.
One cannot prove a negative
"But you are not ruling out a higher power which still begs the question of why not (if the other supernatural things can be ruled out)"
Firstly I find it hard accept "proof" of something akin to a God.
By the same token claiming that there is no God is also a claim and as such cannot be proven either.I know it's a negative but it's still a claim.Because something is not provable does not mean it cannot exist.
I think you mistake an apparently silly claim of witches with consideration (NOT belief in but *consideration*)of some intrinsic force that one may call a higher power...BIG difference.I am no holy roller of any sort by any stretch.
Myself I make NO claim EITHER way.
Tug all you want,my mind stays open,not to witches but rather in light of my own earthly limitations.
And by the way,science is continually overturning itself.This much seems true,what we considered matter not so long ago is vastly more complex.
Question how do YOU know rocks(for example) aren't animated or a sensory part of an animated being?See where this is going?If you are open to the possibility of living rocks you yourself espouse consideration for what you cannot prove,IE the same thing you keep tugging at me over.
IF you claim that they cannot be animated,and again it is a claim and claims are subject to proof per your model of thought,then how can it be that we are not of a spiritual nature?If we are NOT of a spiritual nature then we are animated mass.What's to say that the rock isn't too?Your explanation would be?
"I'm sorry if that offends you but I'm not trying to hurt you I'm simply stating my opinion. You may feel that I'm a jerk for expressing it but I'm being honest."
I missed that earlier.
My answer is an emphatic NO WAY!I am the biggest advocate for candid dialog guy.No offense taken whatsoever.
I see a rigid inflexibility,a limitation in reliance on only those things "proven".
But hey,I'm not complaining because I see there is a tangible biological reason.As far as I can see people are products of their own biological make up.If everything else obeys natural laws why wouldn't our biological mechanism?
You,Steelyboy,are a product of your dad's seed and are no less an equation than standard arithmetic.Same goes for me.
All things to everyone because who's to say there is any such thing as free will?