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Submitted by : jd_30 Submitted on : Sep 24,2005 7:09:26 pm ballot title: Are the hurricanes the beginning of the end for America?ballot number:81737
Is it God punishing the US? Is it punishment for the rapacious destruction of the ozone? Or some other such stupid theory?
by inter_regnum
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I just mean the way that people perceive America may be changed by it, and that the political effects of that could be the beginning of the already inevitable change of focus to China. I am not saying America is going to come crashing down amid fire and brimstone and storm surges anytime soon. all empires eventually fall - nothing lasts forever - i don't think it is irrational to wonder if this might be the beginning of a decline. sort of childish to take a legimate question and treat it as just some theory. popular form of attack these days, isn't it? to label everything as a conspiracy theory? seems to have something to do with the general notion that just because something is a theory - it doesn't have any basis in fact nor anything to support it.
by lightreaper
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^hey man this ballot has a lot of information that doesn't have any "proof". I suppose that you think there is some significance to observations from the outside? You and jd30 are also making the assumption that the US is an empire which at the very least you would have to define it defend. But if it is just ephemeral feelings that matter, then....?
by inter_regnum
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^define it to defend it.
by inter_regnum
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but to answer the question - perhaps it is. i spoke with my brother a day or two after Katrina hit and he commented that another hurricane or two of the magnitude could very well reduce the USA to a level - well let's just say lots less priveledged than we assume ourselves to be. I thought it an interesting comment considering the impact that storm had on gas prices and how so much of the resources of mid west america travel down the mississippi and through new orleans. and now another major hurricane - with the season barely half over. there are still those of us on the east coast dreading our turn to receive nature's wrath.
by lightreaper
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A lot of information? I haven't provided any information, so why should I need to provide any proof? All I did was state my own opinion and suggest the not so outlandish possibility that maybe someone might agree with me. Then provided the opportuinity for people to say what they think. Why are you so paranoid? Why do people like you constantly think you are being attacked and have to defend yourself? only one making assumptions here is you ir, jd and I are just sharing thoughts :)
by lightreaper
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its the weather, what can you do? like you said, we can't control it and you have to keep in mind, katrina wiped out 2 entire cities -- new orleans and biloxi. being a super power has nothing to do with it because no nation is equipped to handle such events and now, we're hit with another one. come on, you can't honestly think that being a super power means you can handle everything and anything, can you? if your perception from the outside was one that the usa was somehow magical or all powerful and all encompassing, that's just illogical. if the same events hit europe, or japan or china, they'd have the same problems. perhaps you're not comprehending the scale or power of these storms. actually lightreaper, i disagree with you. you both actually sound like casandra's. ^didn't you write that paragraph under the ballot heading? And I was talking about proof in regards to what lighteaper said. Look you asked a question and I asked some clarifying questions. I think your opinion is stupid. So what?
by inter_regnum
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um - don't recall jd saying anything about the usa being magical or anything - just that a disaster of this magnitude exposes how even the mighty usa is vulnerable, and not near as perfect as we tend to believe. geez - why is everyone so defensive??
by lightreaper
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and in reality, the way the ballot is worded lends itself toward some sort of "prophetic" or divine judgement. sorry, but that is the first thing that came to mind when i read it. if france was hit with a severe drought, would you ask if it was the beginning of the end for france? if china was hit with an earthquake and then 3 days later a tsunmai, would you ask the same question? probably not. be honest lightreaper and jd_30, instead of attacking i-r, maybe admit that your ballot and comments sound like something out of a hal lindsay book. sorry, no offense intended, but if that is how i-r and i read it, maybe that is how it comes across (and so you know, i-r and i are hardly of like mind on much) so...lightreaper is this ballot just for the two of you to comment on? Then why not have your little coffee klatch in pm?
by inter_regnum
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lightreaper, it looks like you're the one who is defensive. and excuse me, but jd can speak for himself. so thanks for taking on the role of spokesperson, but jd created the ballot, not you. or did you? proof? what would you like me to prove to you ir, that i think the usa behaves like an empire? ha, ha - guess what i can believe anything i want - i'm not asking you to and i don't need to prove a thing - there's no denying these storms have had a grat impact on this country as a whole. Initially it appears mostly negative - it is hard to say what the final results will be - but it certainly has got a lot of people's attention. now try to be nice - i'm not looking for a fight. are you?
by lightreaper
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Not really, unless it is the end for the rest of the world..... tsunami Aren't we weary of these sorts of apocalyptic connections? I mean, every time there is any kind of disaster, religious sorts claim that God is judging the folks upon whom the catastrophy is visited. And, before you leap on me, no, I cannot prove God is not judging these folk any more than you can prove He is. What I am given to wonder when I hear these notions is why on earth would God judge all these innocent children; all these elderly; all these poor? Does God hate the poor, old and infant? Does God love places like Las Vegas where the sun always shines on the rich and corrupt? Well, it gets silly.
by griffon007
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ligthreaper, whatever. later! "Why are you so paranoid? Why do people like you constantly think you are being attacked and have to defend yourself? by jd_30 on Sep 24, 2005 7:43" I never get this argument. Do you make this charge to demonstrate that I, or someone else, is unstable. I didn't feel attacked, nor did I feel the need to defend myself. Just like your ballot I suppose you have devined my paranoia in some mystical way? You have an opinion, I have an opinion about your opinion. Does it bother you that someone wouldn't agree with your opinion. Especially since it, at the very least, is an obnoxious opinion. What comes through to me is that you would be satisfied by the downfall of America. Which is an absolutely fine opinion to have. Just don't expect me to sit around and mentally masturbate in agreement with you okay?
by inter_regnum
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And I wonder jd, if you think God is visiting his wrath on the Iraqis when those B-52's rain death on them? Or did God hate the Japanese as evidenced by the Atom Bomb dropped on them? And on and on. Silly stuff, actually.
by griffon007
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Lightreaper, you are certainly conducting yourself like you want a fight and I am always ready to school fucking idiots like you. Ha there!
by inter_regnum
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And I wonder jd, if you think God is visiting his wrath on the Iraqis when those B-52's rain death on them? Or did God hate the Japanese as evidenced by the Atom Bomb dropped on them? And on and on and on. Silly stuff, actually.
by griffon007
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geez guys lighten up - think what you want - i thought it an interesting ballot but i'm not going to bicker with you over your interpretation about what he was trying to say. have a nice night - pleasant dreams
by lightreaper
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Well I'm sorry if the wording of the ballot seems prophetic and implies divine judegement but I'm sure anyone who reads it who isn't blinded by post-9/11 xenophobia would have no trouble understanding it. and griffon, i agree with you. god is not judging us. to be honest, i read that some theologian said that biloxi got wiped out because of all the csinos that were built and planned to be built. when challenged that las vegas has more and that the entire nation of monaco was built by and lives by gambeling, he had no answer. its this whole "is it the beginning of the end..." shit that is just ludicrious. it smacks of some bizare and crazy idea that somehow fire and brimstone will rain down. oddly, lightreaper and jd fail to realize that this nation has actually lived through much worse. lest we forget the flu pandemic, the dust bowel and the depression, or the tsunami that hit alaska in the 1950's or hurricane camile. in fact, the city of galveston was destroyed entirely at the turn of the century. what about chicago --- it burnt down! see my point. "Well I'm sorry if the wording of the ballot seems prophetic and implies divine judegement but I'm sure anyone who reads it who isn't blinded by post-9/11 xenophobia would have no trouble understanding it. by jd_30 on Sep 24, 2005 8:00p" This proves that your agenda is not to really advance an idea that occured to you but to shit on America. So go fuck yourself asshole.
by inter_regnum
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Well I'm sorry if the wording of the ballot seems prophetic and implies divine judegement but I'm sure anyone who reads it who isn't blinded by post-9/11 xenophobia would have no trouble understanding it. by jd_30 on Sep 24, 2005 8:00pm you're an idiot. you don't know me and i don't know you. don't assume anything. i commented on the tone of this ballot as i saw it. i'm no xenophobe by any means. wow, you certainly know how to make friends on here. best of luck to you pal -- you strike me as the type that wants to get a dig in and if someone calls you on it, you blast them as being some sort of "xenophobe." yeah, that works. Quote: "And I wonder jd, if you think God is visiting his wrath on the Iraqis when those B-52's rain death on them? Or did God hate the Japanese as evidenced by the Atom Bomb dropped on them? And on and on and on. " Where did I even mention God in my ballot? i-r is the one who suggested the God connection. I don't even believe in God, not that its anyones business, omfg. one last thing before i go out -- the "propagandists" on this site love to disguise their true feelings and agenda as "hey, i'm just asking a legitimate question" but if they get called on their crap -- bam!! out come the labels and the insults. what i love is that the true colors always come shining through. funny when you think about it. "omfg" thought you just said you didn't belive in god?? Quote: "So go fuck yourself asshole." Says everything really doesn't it. Oh how did I know you would pick up on that Kev... It's called a figure of speech. ^ yeah, that you got called out and you're pissed you did. and i'm sure lightreaper is still hawking around in the background reading -- ever the being of light. yeah. ^Yep, that is really the summing up bitch. Seacrest out~!!
by inter_regnum
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^^ oh, i don't know how you knew jd_30 -- ohh, the humanity! hey!! maybe you have powers to divine the future. tell me jd_30, will the next tsunami to hit japan be the beginning of their end!? omg!!!!! "Along with the Johnstown Flood Museum, the Flood Memorial tells the story of the 1889 flood that devastated Pennsylvania. This is known as one of the worst disasters in United States history. Over twenty two hundred people perished in the Flood." oh my gosh! maybe the natural disaster above was really the beginning of the end! do you think lightreaper and jd-30?? oh please, share your prophetic visions with us mere mortals. I give up. Someone comes on here to make a fair and legitimate political point and then people read half the post and then crap all over the whole thing, just because it might be saying something slightly negative about their country. I give up. Someone comes on here to make a fair and legitimate political point and then people read half the post and then crap all over the whole thing, just because it might be saying something slightly negative about their country. by jd_30 on Sep 24, 2005 8:14pm there, at least you fucking admit it! it was a political statement. dude, like we all didn't see it for what it really was. later. There we go, taking things out of context again. I think you'll find I said political point, not political statement, which I think you will find are two very different things. As I think you will also find, you are a moron. If you say so. Bush? Has anyone even mentioned Bush in this ballot so far? I don't think so. This entire ballot is about America as a superpower, which has nothing to do with that chimpanzee. I think your true feelings are clear, you obviously didn't like the mere suggestion that you country could have weaknesses and now you are trying to discredity me in anyway you can by dragging in totally irrelevant issues. Original post: He has diplomatic immunity, even in Canada, would be hilarious if they did arrest him though. by jd_30 on Sep 24, 2005 7:16pm didn't you write that about bush? well, i hate bush too, but i've read your drivel jd_30 and the fact is, we know what you're really all about. you're just pissed because like i said, you're getting called on it. dress it up any way you want -- your true feelings are clear. by Kev24 on Sep 24, 2005 8:22pm ^ what are you talking about? so now you're attributing quotes to me? umm, where in this ballot do you see that?? kev, just leave this guy alone, he just wants to have a circle jerk of america hating without interruption with people like lightreaper.
by inter_regnum
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That just shows how pathetic you are being about this. We both know who typed what and when. Do you think I really give a shit whether other people know who said what. You're the one who clearly has some kind of issue with 'coming out on top' here, not me. ^^ what?? seriously, you need help. so you are going to tell me what i posted on this ballot? dude, you're a freak. no need to try to come out on top. in fact, no need to even debate or talk with you. you need help. All I'm going to say is everyone is free to read through this ballot and pick out anywhere where I have said anything remotely hateful about America. I'm not denying the fact that i do dislike America, and I'm sure if you are sad enough to trawl thorugh all my other ballots you will find some less balanced things I have said. But as for this ballot, all I wanted to do was pose a question, and you guys turned it into a 'circle jerk' of non-american hating. What, so you'd rather this site only allowed people who liked America? In case you hadn't noticed there are plenty of people on here who dislike various things about America. Oh and if I'm boring you that much, why do you keep posting? I had something to say here, but it took me that long to get to this end of these comments that I've forgotten what it was! Ok bye bye then... Why is Kev and IR so defensive?? ^^^LOL Colonel's comment (or non-comment).... It's going to take a shitload more than a few hurricanes and airplanes flying into buildings to finish America.....why do I have a feeling this answer is going to disappoint you????
by Guy_Cabbelero
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Well in all fairness, just to keep things in perspective as to the sheer size and magnitude of the damage caused my Katrina: 1). The UN declared it the worst natural disaster in the world (see comments by Jan Englund and Kofi Anana) 2). Over 90,000 square miles (an areas bigger than Great Britain) sustained massive damage and was basically under water. 3). Over 1.4 million people were evacuaged ahead of Katrina 4).five million people without electricity and it may take up to two months for all power to be restored. 5). Katrina affected wide swaths of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida. 6). It virtually wiped out 2 cities New Orleans and Biloxi, MS and affected 2 other major areas of population, Gulfport, MS and Mobile, AL. 7). Entire highways, bridges and other access routes are gone. Completely gone. 6). All of the people evacuated are not able to return yet, so finding someplace for close to 1.5 million people is not easy 9). 4 Oil refineries were damaged and had to be shut down 10). The debris was strewn for hunders of miles and is just ASTRONOMICAL! Ships were actually blown in-land up to 5 miles! 11). ALl of the gas lines began to leak and all of the fuel from cars and other vehicles was released into the water, thus into homes, buildings, the actualy "water" supply, etc., etc. 12). The flood water reached 20 feet deep in some places 13). There was toxic pollutants from chemical plants, as well as rampant disease in the waters 14). The damage could be as mush as $200 billion. This is just a very brief list and does not come remotely close to conveying the full extent of the damage. Does that help to put it into perspective? If the world thinks we can just rebound from that within days, then they are living in a dream world. Perhaps they should research the damage and maybe try to put it into perspective. The begining of the end? No. Does it make us look bad? No. Its nature and considering the massive and unimaginable damage, I think the clean up is moving the best that can be expected. Was the Bush administrations initial response good? No. But that is in the past and was a matter of 2 days. Considering that an area large than the entire nation of Great Britain was damaged and considering that millions and millions of people are directly affected, I'd say that rather than showing "weakness," it shows just how fragile we ALL are. Sorry that was so long :) Here I go again. JD, as to the part of the ballot question that asks about defenses and search and rescue, that is just not accurate at all. If you are focused on the fact that Bush had put an idiot in charge of FEMA and he did not know how to do anything, that is misguided in my opinion. You cannot be questioning the search and rescue and the handling of the aftermath of Katrina, because it has been amazing. Do some research and you might discover that within 24 hours of the relief teams getting there, something like 250,000 people were documented, bathed, clothed, fed, given medical check ups, given medication, and given money. Within in that same 24 hour period, they were all moved to shelters elsewhere in the region or country. That's pretty good. Again, keeping in mind my comment above, I think that our search and rescue and clean up has been amazing and if you go on line, you'll find comments from other world leaders and Kofi Annan basically saying the same thing. Not sure what "news" your watching, but are you sure its not re-run tapes of the first day after Katrina :) Urgency The BBC's James Coomarasamy in New Orleans says the arrival of thousands of soldiers has finally made a difference by bringing an overdue sense of urgency to the evacuation process. On Saturday, in a televised address from the White House, Mr Bush acknowledged the response had been insufficient and spoke of an "incalculable" human cost. "The magnitude of responding to a crisis over a disaster area that is larger than the size of Great Britain has created tremendous problems that have strained state and local capabilities," he said. This is from BBC.com. An excellent source of news I might add!! BBC rocks!! So, again, even a super power needs time and resources to even begin to handle something this massive. Okay, I'm done now...promise :) Thanks for indulging me. aya I don't think I was defensive. I think it is funny that people who want to say something mean about the US have to go about it so lamely. He did finally admit that he was just trying to poop on America, which of course is his right, but don't try to couch it in some sort of mystical knowledge of hurricane's effects. As for why Kev is, I don't know, but I don't think it is defensiveness in his case either. The idea that I (or Kev for that matter) don't want someone here that is anti-American is patently ridiculous, not withstanding Kevs statements. As this twat latter admitted this ballot was just to demonstrate his dislike of America. here is my first comment: hmm...do you have some sort of special ability...like a mystic because you are looking in from the outside? Is it God punishing the US? Is it punishment for the rapacious destruction of the ozone? Or some other such stupid theory? by inter_regnum on Sep 24, 2005 7:19p Those were questions to clarify. I ended up being right about the motives of this guy. Here is how I read this ballot: Don't you think it is great that this hurricane can be viewed as the beginning of the end of that terrible place America?
by inter_regnum
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inter_regnum don't waste your breath (or keystrokes) on these shit-heels....what this little preoccupied twat wants to REALLY ask is "did you have the same dream last night as me, that America crumbled to a rain storm and now the "EU" (can't help but LAUGH when I say those two letters together) somehow doesn't suck"?????
by Guy_Cabbelero
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^ Yeah I know. But I just didn't want to let him have the last word. I really don't care if idiots like this or lightreaper or others want to sit around and America hate just don't call this lame bullshit text in the ballot a legitimate conversation and not expect to get called on it. And, you notice the first thing they (lightreaper and jd30) did was to yell about how we were being defensive. But this guy is an amateur at best because Kev was able to twist him up in no time at all. And he is weird too. He put up a quote of his from another ballot and then said it was Kev's. But overall I tend to beat the shit out of an issue like this.
by inter_regnum
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I don't know jd_30. But I do know that lightreaper is not an idiot. Any nation on earth would feel the strain, not just America, so no, it aint the begginning of the end for the US, but there is no doubt that weather around the world is becoming more unpredictable, and climate change is a real phenomenone- hence why all the countries of the world should be taking it seriously, European, Asian, African (though what exactly they could do is a hard one) and American. And i doubt that the UK could deal with a hurricane that effected what is equal to their entire country in size. How weak.
by inter_regnum
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No the UK probaly couldn't cope because it isn't used to weather of that kind, we're lucky enough to live with a moderate climate...what a dump of a place eh... Well, well, well of course you are perfect and Amerikkka sucks.
by inter_regnum
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No we're not perfect. you've got a persecution complex mate. I actually defended the US and said anywhere would find it hard to cope. But I suppose you ignored that. I responded with a bit of sarcasm to you accusing my country of being weak- get over yourself. oh god, that is an old tactic on B&W. did you just learn that one? yes, you are right I will get over myself oh sooo superior one?
by inter_regnum
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Even when people agree with you you still think they're being funny with ya. hmmm....persecution complex = agreement. oh, okay. I don't live in that world. sorry that I didn't understand the code.
by inter_regnum
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hmmm, inter regnum=childish idiot...I originally agreed with you, hence agreement, yet you still tried to score points. Then you threw the dummy out the pram with all that 'UK perfect, US sucks' shite- to me that =persecution complex. No jd it is not the beginning of the end. It's just your wishful thinking. |