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Submitted by : herzog Submitted on : May 25,2006 10:29:03 am ballot title: Is it OK to knowingly over-exagerate a problem to get people to side with you?ballot number:94793
How do you get from 'an over representation of factual information' to 'over-exaggerration and deceit?!?' I read 'over representation of factural information' to mean 'take much greater pains and effort to make THE FACTS known.' IMO, that is not over- exaggeration or deceit. I believe in letting the facts speak for themselves. If accent is needed, bring large men with shock clubs.
by Truthseeker013 on Thu May 25, 06 11:37am
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I will admit that it could have been worded much better. I read that as poor wording, not some evil admission of intent to decieve. 
"Do the ends justify the means?" See Iraq.
by Counciltucky on Thu May 25, 06 11:46am
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^ alright, then just pretend bush had said: Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous global terrorism is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis." Now, had bush said that of international terrorism, would you be on here defending him for being misquoted, or would you lambast him for knowingly decieving the american public to get people on his side? To the generic ballot question, which I don't believe fits your description ... no. Exaggeration is not merited. BTW, howz about all them Welfare Queens?
You can claim to be nonpartisan all you like, but you sure tolerate a lot of behavior from the left that you wouldn't dream of accepting from the right. Because it happens so rarely on the left, there is little scope for addressing it. The right however use lie like most people use oxygen. So, when the right wing lie, we aren't surprised in the least.
by Steelhamster on Thu May 25, 06 12:45pm
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Yep, only the right exagerates to make a point. That's why global cooling was the greatest threat to life ever, as is bush, who is also the worst dictator ever, leading the US at the worst time in the worlds history. Anyone who opposes 14th trimester abortions will send women back to the kitchen and make them property, anyone who opposes more affirmative action wants to reintroduce slavery, anyone who opposes more money for welfare wants to throw hardworking mothers out in to the street, anyone who opposes illegal immigration does so because they hate all minorities, any and all changes to welfare, social security, or medicare (other than more money) will throw millions of people in to poverty and force this country to become a thirdworld hellhole. Good thing democrats never make statements such as the above and are always well-reasoned and fair in their anti-bush, anti-republican tirades. If you lie in order to get people to side with you then once your lie is discovered you lose credibility. Remember this next time you are talking with your teenager about the “evils of Marijuana” or how “ineffective” prophylactics are.
by RobinGaylord on Thu May 25, 06 3:00pm
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Exaggeration is a time-honored tool of persuasion. Everyone does it. What about that 10 pound trout you caught last summer? How much weight can you bench? How many touchdowns did you score in high school? How pretty was that girl? What was your SAT score? Isn't Bush the biggest idiot ever to hold the office? And so on. Of course some of it has more than a kernal of truth (as in the Bush example). ALL of us exaggerate; it's just when it serves the other guy's interest that we deplore it.
by griffon007 on Thu May 25, 06 3:10pm
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I think the information should always be presented as factually as possible. No over-presenting at all. You lose credibility. Some of the other comments regarding "welfare queens" and "Because it happens so rarely on the left, there is little scope for addressing it." are just ridiculous and add don't address the question at all. A very disturbing trend of these comments lately.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Thu May 25, 06 3:19pm
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^One man's "overpresenting" is another's "facts, as I understand them."
by griffon007 on Thu May 25, 06 3:46pm
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Grif; But gore actually admitted to it this time. It wasn't that he actually believes the stuff he preaches, he admits that he is exagerating it without any sort of hesitation (and if he admits to blowing things out of proportion there's a good chance he is outright lying on some things, although he would never admit to that). Imagine you see a coworker take $5 from the register one evening. You see him do it, you watch the security, tape, he brags to you about it, you know he stole exactly five dollars. So you run off to the police and tell them that he stole $2000. Of course you have a great motive, he's a thief and should be punished harshly. But would that be A) 100% honest and truthful, or B) deceptive? I know you all hate bush and love democrats, fine. But take a moment, clear your head and look at what you're defending, could you imagine for one moment this many people coming out in support of a republican doing the same thing to oppose abortion or gay marriage, etc? Of course not, think about that. "You can claim to be nonpartisan all you like, but you sure tolerate a lot of behavior from the left that you wouldn't dream of accepting from the right." Conversely, you tolerate a lot of behavior from the right that you wouldn't even consider accepting from the left.
by Counciltucky on Thu May 25, 06 5:32pm
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To be honest, his meaning seems ambiguous. IMO, " over-representation of factual presentations " Could mean either 1) an over EXAGGERATION of the facts or 2) Exposing the audience to the facts about global warming more prolifically than ther issues. More often than other, perhaps equally as presentation worthy issues. Either way though, I think it is a null point really. Ih he DID mean what you think he meant, then he has simply been careless enough to openly admit to doing something that politicians inherently do, as public figures/debaters and campaigners. They always have and they always will. As long as they dont actually LIE they will never be publicly chastised for it. Here's the truth: Pat Michaels goes quote mining Category: Global Warming Posted on: May 20, 2006 2:08 PM, by Tim Lambert Media Matters catches Pat Michaels in an outrageous bit of quote mining: MICHAELS: Well, it's an exaggeration. Global warming is a very real thing. People have something to do with it in the last several decades of the 20th century. But what people do on this issue is they exaggerate it. I have a quote from , from Grist magazine recently. He said, "I believe it's appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is." HANNITY: Yeah. MICHAELS: He says it's appropriate to over-represent the danger on this issue. You have to realize what he said and take that as you see this movie. No, Gore did not say it was appropriate to over-represent the danger. Michaels has taken the quote out of context. Gore was answering a question about what the right mix is between talking about the dangers of global warming vs the solutions to it, and saying that you have to get people to recognize that there is a problem before you can talk about solutions. Read the question and answer: Q.: There's a lot of debate right now over the best way to communicate about global warming and get people motivated. Do you scare people or give them hope? What's the right mix? A. : I think the answer to that depends on where your audience's head is. In the United States of America, unfortunately we still live in a bubble of unreality. And the Category 5 denial is an enormous obstacle to any discussion of solutions. Nobody is interested in solutions if they don't think there's a problem. Given that starting point, I believe it is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presentations on how dangerous it is, as a predicate for opening up the audience to listen to what the solutions are, and how hopeful it is that we are going to solve this crisis. Over time that mix will change. As the country comes to more accept the reality of the crisis, there's going to be much more receptivity to a full-blown discussion of the solutions. Pat Michaels is smart enough to have read the interview and understood what Gore was saying. Michaels' conduct was plainly dishonest. (Scienceblogs, Deltoids) * * * * * * * * Duke is clearly over-exaggerating what Gore said.  Exaggerating with an agenda is a form of deceit. The intention is to manipulate the mind of another person, so as to get them to follow your way of thinking easier. Indeed, it is deceit. And when others catch you exaggerating deceitfully, people will be less inclined to believe in your cause. It is best to be honest, and to present what is known, and to be honest about what is unknown. That is the way to truly objectively follow your cause, and not merely your own ego. Cathexis- "I read 'over representation of factural information' to mean 'take much greater pains and effort to make THE FACTS known.'" - That seems like a bit of stretch to me. cranky- so Al Gore ONLY wants to exaggerate so long as there are people who disagree with his opinion on the matter. Once everyone agrees, the need for exaggeration will no longer be needed? And once everyone were aware of the reality and were actively discussing the issue, they would see any exaggerations that were used. Tricking people for their own good? That sounds like Machiavelli to me... Hard to say but it is done all the time. right now I am thinking about the global warming debate.
by Ignatius_J_Reilly on Fri May 26, 06 10:39am
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It'd take a LOT more than dramatic over-exagerations to make Americans care about the environment. Clearly here's an example of someone who will never believe humans can help the planet. It's like a time warp to the fifties! Did y'all know cities of 15,000 all over the south aren't even recycling their trash? :p that's so last-century. My pig of a relative down there laughed at me when I seemed a little worried about all the bags of trash.. but that's the way it is, with a lot more people that y'all think. We're oblivious.. deny deny deny.. oh it's precious! |