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Submitted by : herzog Submitted on : Jun 20,2006 10:24:10 am ballot title: POWs found tortured and murdered . . .ballot number:96085
No matter who does it. Which is a major reason I do NOT want my country condoning such action. How can you support us doing it and turn around and condemn others? Geez, is this rocket science?!? whats the difference between these victims of insurgents in Iraq and the victims of the invaders of Iraq who emulate the Brave Little Tailor and take out whole families at a time Oh yessssss, the Invaders are American, so therefore their actions can be excused and explained away and the Insurgents are Islamic (assumed) and therefore bad evil eaters of kittens and fluffy white poodle puppies. "sorry to disapoint" the bitterer the better ;) *passes around the olives & cheeses* War, in itself, is a Barbaric act. War is indeed a barbaric act, and yet Humans are famous for it. Animals don't do war. Humans do war. Who's the superior species? That's almost as horrific as this: "US troops face murder charges THREE American soldiers have been charged with premeditated murder after being accused of shooting three Iraqi detainees, the military announced last night. The latest investigation, which began a week after an incident on May 9, was publicly revealed only last week, after a raft of other investigations into Iraqi deaths at the hands of US soldiers. They included alHaditha, where 24 people, including women and children, were allegedly massacred. The three soldiers were members of 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division. US Army Staff Sergeant Raymond Girouard was charged with 11 counts stemming from four charges: premeditated murder, attempted murder, conspiracy and wrongfully communicating a threat. Private First Class Corey Clagett was charged with six counts and Specialist William Hunsaker was charged with eight counts of the same charges. Premeditated murder charges can bring the death penalty under US military law. The three soldiers are accused of deliberately allowing three men detained during a raid on an insurgent training camp, at a former chemical factory southwest of Tikrit, to flee so they would have an excuse to shoot them, said a defence official, speaking on condition of anonymity. A day after the killings, according to the charge sheets, Sergeant Girouard told Private First Class Bradley Mason, who knew the truth about what happened: “You better not talk or I will kill you.” The soldiers were being held in military detention in Kuwait pending a hearing to determine whether they should face a court-martial. The charge sheet released by the Army said the dead men were “of apparent Middle Eastern descent whose names are unknown.” News of the charges will be a further blow to the reputation of American forces in Iraq. Al-Haditha is already being labelled the “My Lai” of the Iraq war. An investigation is under way into what happened when a group of Marines allegedly went on the rampage after the death of a colleague in a roadside bombing. A second inquiry into how the Marines allegedly covered up the deaths and passed false information up the chain of command concluded last Friday and is in military hands. Murder, kidnapping and conspiracy charges are also likely to be brought imminently against seven Marines and a Navy corpsman for killing an Iraqi civilian near Baghdad in April. The man was said to have been dragged from his home and shot before troops planted a shovel and an AK47 rifle next to his body to make it look as if he were an insurgent burying a roadside bomb. Claims that US soldiers rounded up and shot 11 unarmed civilians in Ishaqi have been rejected, despite video obtained by the BBC that appeared to contradict the official military account. The accusations against the US troops have driven a wedge between the US military and Iraq’s new Government. Nouri al-Maliki, the Iraqi Prime Minister, accused US troops of habitually killing unarmed civilians. He said that violence against civilians by coalition troops was a “daily phenomenon”. He ordered an Iraqi investigation into al-Haditha, demanding that the US hand over files on the alleged massacre. However, the Iraqi Government has no jurisdiction over American troops on its soil. The incident at al-Haditha came to light only through the media, which presented the military with their findings before investigations began. (Times Online) * * * * But, of course, in the mind of a neo-con propagandist, atrocities committed by Americans are mever to be acknowledged. Neo-cons aren't interested in justice or fairness, only in winning, regardless of how low they have to sink to do it.  This was a barbaric act, and we can expect more of this. The coalition is putting tremendous pressure on insurgents, and we can expect more and more desperate acts to try to discourage and defeat them. Also, from the perspective of the insurgents, the U.S. is torturing their guys in prisons in Iraq and abroad; Marines are murdering civilians; their holy places are now being attacked; and they are losing the war. It's no surprise that the are torturing and killing captive soldiers. War is a sick, disgusting business no matter which side you're on.
by griffon007
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Barbaric, terrorist, Allah-directed (I'll get mail for that!) and should be held accountable. Thanks for making a point I made some months ago, when the issue of torture was hot-button-of-the-moment. So amny are copacetic when it's *us* torturing the Bad Guy for information, but when the sitch gets turned one-eighty... And, on the possibly-unwanted-but IMO, absolutely-neccessary sidebar, these soldiers were taken on Friday, and it's taken the Media Wing of the GOP until today to report on it. Fair and balanced? Now, isn't there a little bit of a difference between stacking naked people in a pyramid and beheading them? And cranky forgets that the situation with the US soldiers is rare and NOT official and usual action. It is also PUNISHED if proved. Of course, any excuse to bash his own country is good enough. FF: IMO, we can either quibble about degrees of barbarism or we can decide we will not participate in barbarous acts. Period. I am for the latter and will not support or make apologies for any acts of barbarism. Period. BTW, please don't tell me that you believe that is all that has been done. In your heart, you should know that it has gone beyond what you would be comfortable with. Very unfortunate,it happens all the time to any creature walking in Iraq.
by drinkaholic
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Cath: find where I condone torturing and murdering pows. And to everyone who says 'well whats the difference between this and what american soldiers did . . . ", the difference is that if you follow up on any of those allegations they are either proven false or the soldiers involved face jail time for their actions. How much you are you willing to bet on the insurgents punishing the guys who did this with a military style tribunal? Any takers? I could use some extra cash. ' FF: IMO, we can either quibble about degrees of barbarism or we can decide we will not participate in barbarous acts. Period.' Cath, so if the US says it's it not acceptable to do this, but some of our soldiers do anyway, and then we punish them for their crimes, that is no different than the insurgents who encourage this sort of thing and would never even dream of punishing their own for these crimes? You see the faults with moral equivalency? Our troops take naked pictures of pows (and are kicked out of the military and punished as a result) so that means we can't be opposed to the terrorists in iraq capturing soldiers (as well as women and children), torturing then beheading them as a matter of policy? Does that make the slightest sense to you? Because it sure doesn't to me. Another example of why the Islamo-facist must be stopped;they are ruthless murders abosultely no mercy. Truth: I saw reports of their kidnapping on friday of last week. They just didn't find out about this until today. To clarify that last bit: They didn't find out about this murder until today, on friday it was still up in the air what had happened to them. Oh jyl you know you were let down when you found you found out this wasn't about the US screwing up. I left it vague so that more people would click on this link, I'm guessing I'd get about half the traffic if I'd said that it was the insurgents who did it. You are in a war. This is what happens. If you dont have the stomach for it you can always leave. Lets face it. You started it. It's a barbaric act. No matter who does it. Which is a major reason I do NOT want my country condoning such action. How can you support us doing it and turn around and condemn others? Geez, is this rocket science?!? by Cathexis on Jun 20, 2006 7:31am ^^ and he does it again. do ever not work in some dis' against the usa? dude, focus on the fucking topic at hand. i'm getting bored with you now. who's the total a-hole that voted "its bushes fault, blah, blah, blah. see the bigger picture you ignorant idiot. (now, who ever replies to my comment, well we'll know it was you who voted). can't anyone debate the actual topic without debasing it into an anti-usa thing? get a new line you boring tools. Fiddle hit the nail on the head. Cranky, I recall you saying that the neo-cons are always beaten in arguments here? So far the left here has just failed to comment and said "well the U.S does it". Then the "neo-cons" pointed out there is a difference between beheading a soldier and getting away with it and stacking up naked prisoners and getting kicked out of the military. I'm interested in hearing what you have to say mate? because surely you don't believe what the U.S did is as bad as what the insurgency is doing But, of course, in the mind of a neo-con propagandist, atrocities committed by Americans are mever to be acknowledged. Neo-cons aren't interested in justice or fairness, only in winning, regardless of how low they have to sink to do it. by cranky on Jun 20, 2006 9:56am and its abundantly clear that in the minds of some liberals, an act of barbarism can be rationalized and even apporved of if the topic can be shifted to bashing the usa. in a sense, what "you're" doing is turning a blind eye and approving of what they did. the issue is not "oh yeah, well, umm, hey, the american guards at the prison stacked prisoners." umm, they were alive though, right? so by doing that, you basically just took the side of the barbarians and gave blatant approval of their actions. so how do you sleep at night? Barbaric behaviour is barbaric behaviour, regardless of who commits it. One of the ten commandments is "Do not kill." There are no excuses, no exceptions, no codicils to this most basic of laws. A few centuries after the commandments were carved into stone, I assume in a effort for them never to be lost or forgotten, Jesus said "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The cry for war is a cry for blood to be spilled. I don’t care if the person baying for somebody elses blood is a leader of a religion, any religion, a leader of a country or even a judge sitting on a bench, they are doing wrong. I don't care what religion a victim is or their nationality, each time a human loses its life as a direct result of the actions of another human the rest of us, (that's all of humanity) lose a little of our own human qualities and the more we are subject to this the less we become. "Oh jyl you know you were let down when you found you found out this wasn't about the US screwing up." I'm getting really tired of you assuming ridiculous shyt like this about me. And OUT LOUD, do you realize how that looks, hz? My comment was only about your bitterness (the cheese and olives go so well with whine ;) your bitterness at people who have no power over you anyway. Putting people down all day is not the way to defend your King, it's getting so old, especially when you assume things about people you do not know. oh NO, I meant to say do it more! Never stop it! It's working for you. Also, rigged with boobytraps. Barbaric behavior is barbaric behavior, regardless of who commits it. One of the ten commandments is "Do not kill." There are no excuses, no exceptions, no codicils to this most basic of laws. A few centuries after the commandments were carved into stone, I assume in a effort for them never to be lost or forgotten, Jesus said "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." The cry for war is a cry for blood to be spilled. I don’t care if the person baying for somebody Else's blood is a leader of a religion, any religion, a leader of a country or even a judge sitting on a bench, they are doing wrong. I don't care what religion a victim is or their nationality, each time a human loses its life as a direct result of the actions of another human the rest of us, (that's all of humanity) lose a little of our own human qualities and the more we are subject to this the less we become. --- Another armchair liberal spouting off rhetoric from the comfort of his own chair, with the ignorant belief that everyone lives their lives as he does. War is a necessary evil in human existence for a variety of reasons. You will always have those whose thirst for power becomes a blood lust to attain more land, more conquests, more war. You will also always have those who are oppressed who continue to fight against those who are holding them down, such is the natural circumstances of human existence, sad or otherwise. You would do well to realize that not everyone thinks like you, that there are people out there who always on any level want to dominate others, and those who will fight against such tyranny. Flowers and love and peace are great, till someone puts a gun to your hippy head and blows it clean off your Hawaiian shirt wearing body. There are those who will never live for peace, regardless of what you believe. Something the media is not talking about: These two soldiers who were kidnapped, tortured, and killed, were from the same unit, even the same platoon as the soldiers who raped the young woman and burned her body after killing her and her family. While this is publicly known, this hasn't received the same attention: Something being investigated is the correlation between those two, there is an idea that the kidnappings and killings had nothing to do with Al Quaida, but that the terror network is taking advantage of revenge killings. The Iraqi public recognizes the different patches and unit numbers on the vehicles and uniforms of the soldiers here. There is a good chance the killings were done by Iraqi's in the area exacting their view of revenge 'eye for an eye' upon the unit responsible for the rape and murder of that family. Unfortunately some units are far more hostile to local Iraqis than others, and there seems to be significant evidence supporting higher occurrences of serious incidents (road side bombs, small arms fire, etc) with the units who 'roll' with a more aggressive posture in comparison with those who take a more passive, humanitarian approach. We have seen other supporting evidence of this, a convoy had a shape charge take out the lead gun truck, killing 2 soldiers and seriously wounding another. This particular unit is a sister unit of ours, and they have had several serious incidents involving Iraqi civilians since arriving in country just a couple of months ago, including one incident where they fired more than THREE HUNDRED 50 caliber rounds. (trust me, this is a ridiculous amount considering the type of conflict going on.) Strangely, a convoy from our unit had driven by that exact same route that the shape charge exploded on less than 10 minutes before, which was the first time we really began to suspect, at least in our company leadership, that the Iraqi people are targeting specific units that are more aggressive in nature. It is unfortunate that some leaders here have not yet learned that a friendlier approach, while lowering your guard some, actually significantly decreases the likelihood you will have to deal with an attack in the first place. I should reference this ballot on every ballot by herzog and Jinn_the_kafir... " Animals don't do war. Humans do war. Who's the superior species? " Insects have wars.
by danny_mack
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Robots have wars as well. Sir Killalot rocks, dude! We have no right to complain. Bush and the Republicans pushed to the legal right to torture torrorist POW's. You reap what you sow. As John McCain said the reason the U.S. always was against torturing POW's was to protect American soldiers from the same treatment. Apparently Bush and his buddies don't care what happens to American POW's. You all should not blame Bush if the war was not over seas it would be here in the US and even more people would die. Those soldiers like what they do for us and if they die the greatest respects will be payed so stop blaming it on Bush he did what would make less death. Maybe the war should be here so you could see you are wrong. ** karma ** Oh my god! |