choices : culture : IS THE USA GOVERNMENT OWNED BY THE JEWS OR ZIONISTS?

[+] ballot by Ken_from_Dublin
ACTIVE Fri Oct 28, 05 - Wed Jul 23, 08

I have cousins who live and work in the 'Land of the Free', one of them is working as a waitress to make ends meet while she studies in college, anyway, she told me recently that while waitressing she overheard a group of young Jews laughing and joking at a table boasting about how they had America 'by the balls' financially and about how they called the shots on the world stage.

She was amazed at this, and asked me what was going on, I replied that I really didn't know, but would endeavour to find out, so can anyone on B&W throw any light on the subject?

America is owned by Zionists
America is owned by the Jews
No
Where’s the evidence?
America is owned by Zionist Jews
Comment
U.S.Fed.Gov't. is owned by BigBiz,Inc.
america is owned by the blacks
SORRY, THIS POLL IS NOW CLOSED.

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Comment :

The PLO has INTENTIONALLY targeted schools/school buses, and other innocent civilians. Would you like a list to see who is worse? (I'll give you one) It is the PLO. Their attacks on civilians are ALWAYS intentional, not an accident. That's the big difference between the PLO and Israel. INTENTIONAL ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS 1929: Hebron Massacre: Arab rioters killed 67 Jews in Hebron. Many of the dead were dismembered. Many incidents of rape were reported. Numerous homes were burned. 1970 February 21, Swissair Flight 330, bomb detonated in flight, killing 38 passengers and 9 crew. 1970 May 8, An ambush attack known as the Avivim school bus massacre took place on May 8, near Avivim, an agricultural community in Israel founded in 1963 by Moroccan immigrants. The attack caused the death of nine children aged between six and nine and three adults, and left nineteen others maimed.

entered by : FiddleFaddleOnLSD
Submitted on : Nov 05,2005 7:00:36 pm

COMMENTS

Great options there, you really covered all the angles.

by herzog on Fri Oct 28, 05 9:49pm [+]

...yeah like 'add your choice' - can't you think for yourself man for once in your life? - add your own choice!

by Ken_from_Dublin on Fri Oct 28, 05 10:43pm [+]

Their is a subtle difference between the two by the way - it was obviously lost on you HZ.

by Ken_from_Dublin on Fri Oct 28, 05 10:46pm [+]

No, it is owned by oil companies, the Saudi royal family, Walmart and other corporations.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri Oct 28, 05 10:50pm [+]

herzog, give it a rest, please. you are in no position to be talking about angles.

i've heard stuff like this as well ken. i also posted on here a few months ago someting about coservatives and liberals and which groups is more of a supporter of israel (i think it was a ballot?) anyway, i posted that a lot of my ultra coservative friends said that most conservative are pro-israel only in public and the opposite in private. i think that people are one way in public and the real them comes out in private or when they are talking in a groupd, etc. i guess there must be some element of truth to what those people said that your cousin overheard -- why else say it? and, like i said, i've heard similar comments. yeah, i'd say that there is an element of control or influence, without a doubt. my friend naomi has told me how close knit the jewish community is and that they look out for each other in jobs, politics, etc. i guess thats only normal, but she seemed to say that it is a deep-rooted alliance that was sort of like a network. her dad is a very, very vocal supporter of israel and he will not fly the american flag, only the israeli flag, even though he was born here and so were his parents. i don't know, but i think this notion has got merit.

by Kev24 on Fri Oct 28, 05 10:53pm [+]

Damn Jews, Niggers, Chinks, Towel Heads and Spics always fucking shit up for us white folk.

by lowerclassbrats on Fri Oct 28, 05 11:55pm [+]

It is highly unprobable that that actually happened. I suppose this is just another way in which you hope to denigrate the most beautiful and best country in the world.

by inter_regnum on Sat Oct 29, 05 1:57am [+]

Isn't the proper term "run by the Kikes". Usually that is the form that some of this bitter dislike of Jews takes. There is usually stronger language than Jews or Zionists. Maybe those two words are code enough for you?

by conservativsangfroid on Sat Oct 29, 05 2:16am [+]

I don't believe anything you say, so I think the ballot is based on a lie!

by Guy_Cabbelero on Sat Oct 29, 05 2:34am [+]

Where’s the evidence that America is controlled by the Jews or Zionists. Exactly there’s none. Or is this a joke ballot?
And guy I don’t believe anything you say so that comment is based on a lie.

by seon on Sat Oct 29, 05 6:24am [+]

'....you hope to denigrate the most beautiful and best country in the world.'

Hey STUPID!

Yeah you in the corner with the DUNCE hat on...

You have done more harm to America's reputation on this site than just about everyone else combined, bar that other retard two comments down

I'm asking a question here, not making a statement.

by Ken_from_Dublin on Sat Oct 29, 05 6:25am [+]

guy and inter, if you read my comment i said i have heard similar statements. do you not believe me either? ken is not a liar, so if he says his relative told him this, i believe him.

by Kev24 on Sat Oct 29, 05 8:55am [+]

Well, at least you started to search for sources. In the future you may even learn what "reliable sources" means. But no rush! One step at a time!
@ Ken: sometimes the difference between two different phenomenons (sorry, I don't know how else to say that!) is not qualitative, but quantitative. There is a huge line between a large group that supports its members, by using their connections whit-in the system and a small group of conspirators who try to subdue the system. In fact this is the difference: the first group uses the system in their own interest (as much as the systems allows them), it manipulates the system due to its errors (without controlling or being able to change it); the second group tries to control, manipulate and change the system in order to achieve an obscure goal.
There are a lot of communities in US. If the jews are profiting the system more than others that doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. It means the system has problems and/or the members of other ethnic groups are too individualistic to care for their co-ethnics (?). This goes to prove that jews have an extraordinary communitarian (?) spirit (something they had to learn in order to survive), not that they are some kind of conspirators.

by johan_moritz on Sat Oct 29, 05 9:11am [+]

I agree, regardless of the ethical and moral rights or wrongs, it is testament to their ingenuity as a race if they have pulled this off and attained large control of America by infiltrating the establishment and becoming the larger part of it, and by extension having huge influence over how America governs it's people, well it's foreign policies at least anyway.

Think about it, Israel couldn't wish for a better ally.

Just for the record I have great respect for Judaism and Jews, did you know that Albert Einstein was denied the Nobel prize because of anti-semitism?

by Ken_from_Dublin on Sat Oct 29, 05 10:10am [+]

Stupid? You're the wearing the tin-foil hat, moron! As I said before, come to NYC and spew your tin-foil dreams!

by Guy_Cabbelero on Sat Oct 29, 05 10:56am [+]

absolutely ken and johan. there is always influence peddling going on. every country has someone here in the usa that tries to influence us and we do to. i think when people ask this question it is related to the term zionism and what is being asked is basically this -- do confirmed zionists intentionally try to influence american foreign policy to the betterment of israel and to the detrement of the united states in terms of security, image, foreign relations and domestic contentment.

i mean china certainly tries to influence us, as does russia, and japan, etc. america does the same with other countries. do i think it is a conspiracy by zionists? no. do i think that there is a very influencial group of people in this country that is zionist by nature and who see israel as their only true homeland, despite being american? yes. i don't think that is a secret and i don't think that it is so far fetched. the jewish community has prospered greatly in this country and they would be the first to confirm that -- but as my friend naomi pointed out, they do encourage members of their faith to unite and to help each other and to advance thier cause. this is also not a conspiracy and is not necessarily a bad thing.

where the danger and risk comes into play is if there is a form of discrimination that takes place -- e.g. do they shut out non-jewish people or do they take actions that are questionable, solely to "protect" or "advance" a member of their religion. its not secret and its not biggoted to say that a lot of the media, banking, law and finance is filled with people at the highest level who are also jewish. that is why some people say that they control this industry or that industry. if however the people at the highest level of power exert their influence in a way that jeopardizes the united states, then that is where we all have a problem because if they do so to advance israel or the jewish community, without regard for national interest, etc., then that is where there is very questionable gray areas.

look, we all know that immediately after the iraq invasion it was discovered that certain members of the u.s government knowingly accepted false evidence from israel on iraq -- that is an example of what people are asking ----is that an example of israel using a network within the usa to get us to act a certain way or take a particular action? hard to say, but it makes you wonder.

by Kev24 on Sat Oct 29, 05 11:04am [+]

@ this entire ballot rolleyes

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:01pm [+]

Lots of people and groups try to influence America and it's foreign policy.

Christian fundamentalists are a good example. They also promote ideas in foreign policy which are to the detriment of the US and other countries. Things like being against family planning, birth control etc. Why aren't people bitching about that?

If Jews have the influence and success they have, it is because of hard work and determination.

What I have a problem with is when people say another group (whoever it is) have mixed allegiances.

Fundamentalist Christians, Jews, Rich white oil mean, Blacks, and any other group have fought and died for the freedom America has. To malign any group as such is an insult not only to that group but to America as well.

And, of course, this ballot comes from another bash America at every chance fool.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:08pm [+]

kev24 I think that you are probably lying yes.

I don't think that hook-nosed jews sit around drinking the blood of Christian babies either,

But do you?

And I said that it was highly improbable that his relative heard that.

More likely bias against Jews led you and anyone else who thinks they heard something like that to believe it.

And kev, I don't know if you know this or not but I don't have to believe anything that I don't want to believe. If you choose to hang out with fools like the one that made this ballot that is your choice not mine.

And don't try to proscribe my words.

by inter_regnum on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:19pm [+]

^ okay, which part? that my friend naomi has said those things? that her dad thinks the way he does? or, that i have heard similar statements or that i have heard conservative friends say that they publicly support israel because they fear they need to, but in private do not?

lying is a very rude and very harsh word to use and to be honest, i don't think i have ever given you cause to call me a liar. if you want to call me a liar, that's your right. i think you need to chose your words more carefully next time though. it also seems that you cannot stand a viewpoint that conflicts with yours.

its obvious you can read, but reading comprehension is obviously not your strong point. my comments are actually innocuous and you may want to take the time to read them again. as for hanging out with "the fool that made this ballot" i have absolutely no idea what you're talking about -- you do know that this is a web site, right? i mean its not like ken and i play pool or go to the movies together wink

tough shit if you don't believe him or me for that matter, i could not care less.

but i will tell you this, you should get a book called "winning friends and influencing people," becuase you basically just shot any chance of you and i having a harmonious interchange ever again. don't burn bridges dude, its not wise in your position.

by Kev24 on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:35pm [+]

We will proscribe all we like you half-wit, trying your bullyboy tactics again?

Say what you like Kev, and don't be intimidated, that's the only reasoning he and his other half-wit understand.

They are about as much use as one legged man in an ass-kicking contest. (",)

by Ken_from_Dublin on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:35pm [+]

^^yo, inter, also, please take me off your favorites list. i chose not to be on the list of someone that calls me a liar. kind of freaky if you ask me -- you add me on last night and due to a view i have that bothers you, you call me a liar? take your meds dude.

by Kev24 on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:37pm [+]

hey Kev

fuck off

by inter_regnum on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:40pm [+]

^ you will never learn. never. pathetic.

by Kev24 on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:43pm [+]

Ken and kev

you are just the height of intelligent debate and rigourous intellectual honesty with your karma attacks.

You were taken off my favorites list the moment you gave me bad karma you pussy.

by inter_regnum on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:50pm [+]

^ at least i'm not a close minded and arrogant bully. anyone who has an opinion that you don't like or agree with, you get nasty and you get personal. again, you were okay when i was feeding you good karma when other users were trying to get you off this site. that typifies who you really are -- take all that good karma, then you slam me, i give you one neg rating (the only one i have ever given you) and you go balistic.

what is wrong with you? did the lobotomy not take?

by Kev24 on Sat Oct 29, 05 12:54pm [+]

Kev24.

I was responding to the intention of the ballot. Which is to state that Jews sit around greedily rubbing there hands talking about how they own America. I don't think that that happens.

You asked me if I thought you were lying and I said that yes I thought you were.

You gave me bad karma for that.

Then you told me to take you off my list, which I had already done.

I don't dislike you anymore or less now. But you are the one going on the attack when there is an opinion you don't like.

but, your opinion of me is your opinion of me. I think that you are a pretty decent person and I agree with most of your stances.

I won't be changing my opinion, nor will I stop agreeing with most of your stances because of this spat.

That is probably more of the key difference between me and you.

I didn't ask you to give me good karma.

The problems I had were exactly that

my problems.

I asked one person for advice during that time and it wasn't you.

So, do whatever you want.

It really is only a website.

by inter_regnum on Sat Oct 29, 05 1:13pm [+]

^ yep. i agree. thats why you are of no relevance to me in any way and that is why i'm glad i got to see the real you and in a way, it made me sad to see that i had been wrong about you. you live and you learn. but i won't back down on my stance that you can come across as a very hateful, cruel and truly nasty person. if you don't see that or think it, fine. but as you pointed out, i or you can believe what we want.

by Kev24 on Sat Oct 29, 05 1:19pm [+]

And to be clear you were the one who attacked when there was an opinion

you didn't like.

by inter_regnum on Sat Oct 29, 05 1:27pm [+]

by Guy_Cabbelero on Sat Oct 29, 05 1:32pm [+]

^ actually that is a lie inter. you clearly called me a liar because i told of a personal experience directly related to the ballot and that is an attack. if you don't think saying the following is an attack, then you need to get a better definition

kev24 I think that you are probably lying yes.

I don't think that hook-nosed jews sit around drinking the blood of Christian babies either,
But do you?

and then this one --

And kev, I don't know if you know this or not but I don't have to believe anything that I don't want to believe. If you choose to hang out with fools like the one that made this ballot that is your choice not mine.

And don't try to proscribe my words.
by inter_regnum on Oct 29, 2005 12:19pm *

if you don't see that as an attack on my credibility, you're just wrong.

by Kev24 on Sat Oct 29, 05 1:36pm [+]

Okay you are right.

I am wrong.

You are wonderful.

And I am hateful.

happy now?

by inter_regnum on Sat Oct 29, 05 1:41pm [+]

"...I replied that I really didn't know, but would endeavour to find out, so can anyone on B&W throw any light on the subject?"

I ask for an opinion to enlighten me.

What do I get?

More abuse and to be called a liar from the usual suspects.

by Ken_from_Dublin on Sat Oct 29, 05 1:48pm [+]

Got this neg k for this ballot;

Rating of (-5:Terrible) was submitted by
inter_regnum on Ballot #83227
from Bestandworst.com. Reason ::you are the fucking bully you stupid shit bag.

HA HA! Explain why you think I am a bully please???

This should be interesting folks (-:

by Ken_from_Dublin on Sat Oct 29, 05 4:20pm [+]

Your comments to me are at least rude. Just because I don't believe your silly (moronic) ideas and tell you that you call me names.

You have followed me around and made comments about how I should be spat on and blah blah bla

And of course that was karma for the negative karma you gave me for no reason. You give me bad karma and I will give you bad karma back.

If you never give me bad karma I won't give you bad karma, and that goes for everyone. You can say whatever you want, you can abuse this site, you can spam,

anything I don't care

except for giving me bad karma.

by inter_regnum on Sat Oct 29, 05 4:29pm [+]

Ken I have respect for the Jewish people as well, what I hate is morons who call you anti sematic because you speak out about the terrorist actions of those people who are in charge of Israel who are not real Jews anyway.

by seon on Sat Oct 29, 05 10:48pm [+]

They are Semites.

The word is anti-Semitic

by inter_regnum on Sun Oct 30, 05 3:42pm [+]

A heresay conversation is not evidence of a Jew owned government. But this silly ballot maker won't ever understand that.

by inter_regnum on Sun Oct 30, 05 4:43pm [+]

seon, what do you base your comment on?

I can prove they are semites based on DNA evidence.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sun Oct 30, 05 5:16pm [+]

Its obvious, they don’t even follow the law of Moses which states “thou shall not kill” yet they have murdered 1800 Palestinians from the year 2000-2002 and imprisoned 1500 Palestinians without charge.
And look it up, not all Zionists practice Judaism and what would you call a Jew? To me a Jew is someone who practices the religion of Judaism, a Hebrew who doesn’t is simply a Hebrew.
What about the Palestinians? They have Semitic blood in them to, so are people who hate Palestinians anti Semitic to? If so then allot of the Jews I’ve chatted to are self loathing Jews lol
Again no offense to the real Jews, I just don’t want some PC thug to give me bad karma so I need to emphasize I DO NOT hate the Jewish people and I apologise if I offend anyone.
Another questions, do you have evidence the events of exodus even happened or that any of the prophets from the old testament even existed? (outside the first testament and the Torah)
And thanks for the correction inter (if that was for me).

by seon on Thu Nov 03, 05 6:12pm [+]

And I meant dna not blood also can you prove that the dna is the same dna that the Hebrew “Race” had during the time of the so called prophets?

by seon on Thu Nov 03, 05 8:08pm [+]

The short answer to your question is "YES".

Some basic facts:
For example: Males who share a common ancestor should also share a Y chromosome, diverging only with respect to accumulated mutations. Mutations on the Y chromosome occur at a relatively constant rate, allowing scientists to estimate the time that has passed since carriers of similar Y chromosomes had a common ancestor (known as the molecular clock).

Again with males: If a group shares certain Y-chromosome markers, it argues in favor of a common ancestor.

Also, I would add that using genetic theory is how scientist were able to determine the mythical "Eve", from whom all humans are descended.

It is rather complicated being genetics, but is done by examining mutations, comparing to known populations, etc in the DNA, you can track people back to a common ancestor. For example, if you wanted to see if you are part Native American, they would compare your DNA first to someone who is a known Native American. As most people wondering if they are part Native American are only a small fraction of being Native American, the testing can determine how far back the Native American dna entered into your DNA. Native American DNA has some significant differences to that of a white European. It is difficult to explain genetics in the limited space of a comment, but I wrote an article on genetic testing a while back. Any of the sites I listed in that article can give you a detailed explanation of how they do it. Genetic mutation, etc is basically about evolutionary change, etc, btw.

Also, I can also show you that Jews are most closely genetically related to other peoples in the mid-east, like palestinians, Syrians, Lebanese, etc. They all share a common Y chromosone markers. There are numerous peer reviewed studies, published by Journals like: The Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, International Institute of Anthropology, Paris, France, Nature, American Association for the Advancement of Science, etc, etc.

Need I go on?

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Thu Nov 03, 05 8:51pm [+]

Regarding your other statement:
Whenever someone sees the need to say they aren't anti-Jew or anti-semitic in every ballot about Jews, etc, it makes me think: Methinks the lady doth protest too much. You shouldn't feel the need to say that if you aren't, right?

As far as the Commandments issue, if you would study that a little bit more, you would realize that this issue is not a new one and has been settled for thousands of years. Don't show your ignorance by comparing apples to oranges. Fighting in combat defending your country is not the same as cold-blooded murder.

As far as other events in the Bible, this ballot really isn't about that. However the DNA evidence would appear to point to a common ancestor for Jews and Arabs as specified in the Bible (Abraham), although this obviously cannot be proved to the person.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Thu Nov 03, 05 9:05pm [+]

Ok so we can prove that Zionists do have Jewish dna in them but what exactly makes someone a Jew? Is it someone with Hebrew dna or someone who practices Judaism and believe they are Gods “Chosen people” if its just a Hebrew why aren’t all the other middle eastern people you talked about Jewish?
How was it settled? I mean when the commandments said Thou shall not murder it meant everyone, even the leaders. No one is above the law, everyone has to answer to God or for there crimes.
Yeah I know it’s about the US government being owned by the Jews (and there’s no evidence the Jewish people control it) but I still see no evidence that the Jews are Gods “Chosen people” just because they say so.

by seon on Thu Nov 03, 05 9:29pm [+]

seon

"Its obvious, they don’t even follow the law of Moses which states “thou shall not kill”"

You are confusing kill and murder. If you were to learn some of the history of the world instead of debunking select aspects of it, you might be more contributory to the human race.

"And look it up, not all Zionists practice Judaism and what would you call a Jew?"

Really? Zionists that aren't Jews? Instead of you making a false claim and lay it at the feet of someone to be proved you need to understand that that isn't the way it works.

You lied. You can't name one person who is a Zionist and not a Jew.

" To me a Jew is someone who practices the religion of Judaism, a Hebrew who doesn’t is simply a Hebrew. "

Funny that. You don't consider "heebs" Jews either.

hahahah

"What about the Palestinians? They have Semitic blood in them to, so are people who hate Palestinians anti Semitic to?"

Yes actually they are. But that isn't the common usage as you should know.

That is the first CORRECT claim that you have made, but it is one that is ALWAYSmade by those who want to lessen every aspect of Jews.

If you need confirmation of that go to Stormfront.com

"If so then allot of the Jews I’ve chatted to are self loathing Jews lol "

The lol doesn't make that comment okay.

You are saying that all the Jews you know are at the least racist and the worst murderers.

" do you have evidence the events of exodus even happened or that any of the prophets from the old testament even existed?"

Exodus has been widely, historically confirmed.

Just like the fact that Pontius Pilate was the governor.

by inter_regnum on Thu Nov 03, 05 11:04pm [+]

seon,
I think you are confusing the terms: Zionist, Jews, and Hebrew.
A. Zionist: is someone who support the political movement to create and maintain a Jewish state.

B. Jew: In modern secular terms, Jews include three groups:
1.People who practice Judaism and have a Jewish ethnic background (is passed matrilinealry (through the mother although sometimes it includes those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent). The largest percent, by far of Jews are those of matrinlineal descent.
2. People without Jewish parents who have converted to Judaism.
3. Jews who, while not actively practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jewish by virtue of their family's Jewish descent and their own cultural and historical identification with the Jewish people. (Even the ultra-Orthodox use this standard).
C. Hebrew: The most common usage for this term is for the language "Hebrew" which the Torah, etc are written in. It is less often used in reference to "Jews" or the more ancient Jews. Technically, "Jew" is derived from the name Judah, which was the name of one of Jacob's twelve sons. Judah was the ancestor of one of the 12 tribes of Israel, which was named after him. It is usually used as a synonym for Israelite although Israelite means a member of any of the 12 tribes of Israel.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri Nov 04, 05 6:35am [+]

Remember, Go see "Get Rich or Die Tryin'" in theaters November 9.

by _Beelzebubba on Fri Nov 04, 05 9:10am [+]

Inter here’s my response:
“You are confusing kill and murder. If you were to learn some of the history of the world instead of debunking select aspects of it, you might be more contributory to the human race”.
Killing and murder is the same thing. When a politician who hasn’t even seen a war orders his soldiers to kill civilians, to me that is murder. When a hostile army targets a civilian population that is fleeing there home to try and escape them is murder. Killing is wrong, no matter how you put it.

“You lied. You cant name one person who is a Zionist and not a Jew”
what about Dr. Baruch Kappel Goldstein who killed 29 Muslims and injured approximately 100 in a 1994 shooting attack in the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, Israel. Are those the actions of a Jew who follows the commandment “Thou shall not kill” and before you accuse me of using a “conspiracy site” I used en . Wikipedia . org which only reports the facts.

“Funny that. You dont consider "heebs" Jews either”
well I do but if you don’t follow the law of Moses and believe in God, how do you practice the Judaism religion?

”The lol doesnt make that comment okay.

You are saying that all the Jews you know are at the least racist and the worst murderers.”
I’m not saying there murderers but allot hate the Palestinians yet accuse me of being anti Semitic when I point out they lived in Palestine for hundreds of years before the Zionists came with there tanks and army’s and started murdering innocent civilians. Plus If you hate a fellow brother or sister haven’t you already committed murder in your heart? What ever happened to “Love thy neighbor” that’s one of the few things I agree with in the Bible. But I shouldn’t ramble. The point is I’m not saying the Jews I chat with are murderers I’m saying allot of Jews hate Palestinians and therefore fellow Hebrews. Maybe I should make that some since I don’t want to speak for the majority of the Jewish population. Also if I’m “anti semantic” doesn’t that make them anti semantic for not believing the Palestinians should have the right to live in Israel if they want?

“Exodus has been widely, historically confirmed”
Ok where? And why didn’t the Egyptians mention how the Jews escaped Egypt or how the pharos army drowned in the dead sea? And if God has the power to “harden the Pharos heart” why doesn’t he just fill the Pharaoh with love for the Jews and let them go, this sparing the lives of the firstborn sons of Egypt who did nothing to the Jews, some were still innocent babies. It would have saved Moses from having to send Egypt those plagues and stuff wouldn’t it?

“Just like the fact that Pontius Pilate was the governor”
But is it a fact that he crucified a man called Jesus Christ? And it’s also a fact that people were not crucified at the time he was Governor as well or that he always pardoned a prisoner on Passover. I guess its possible he did that so people would blame the Jews instead of him so why don’t people blame him for the death of Jesus instead oyou’d think his records would mention it or something.

by seon on Fri Nov 04, 05 3:38pm [+]

fiddle:
Ok so what about Hebrew person who doesn’t practice Judaism? Like a Palestinian who practices Islam or a Jew who converts to Christianity and no longer identifies themselves as Jewish? Are they still Jews? This question doesn’t really have a point, I’m just curious.

by seon on Fri Nov 04, 05 3:40pm [+]

seon
Killing and murder are not the same thing. Ideally they would be, but that isn't the case. If the only way you could save your wife, kids and country from certain death was to kill someone, would that be murder or common sense? Is it morally justified to let them die?

A Jew does not necessarily have to be a Zionist (support the creation and continued existance of Israel). This is a minority viewpoint though. Also, using the Zionist description I gave you, not the slanderous terminology bandied about by anti-semites.

A number of problems with this paragraph.
I’m not saying there murderers but allot hate the Palestinians yet accuse me of being anti Semitic when I point out they lived in Palestine for hundreds of years before the Zionists came with there tanks and army’s and started murdering innocent civilians.

Jews were there as well under varying levels of oppression under a caliphate or the Ottoman Empire.

There has NEVER been a country for the palestinians. NEVER. The area has been part of the caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, Syria and Jordan. This is a FACT. It is not debatable. The palestinians are simply Arabs. There has been a state of Israel, although sometimes ruled by the Romans, etc. This is a FACT.

Tanks and armies. Wrong. The Jews of Israel only had small arms with which to defend themselves. Israel was willing to accept the partition approved by the United Nations, but the Arabs were not. They started a war with Israel even before statehood became official.

Murdering innocent civilians? I think you open a huge can of worms when you use this statement. Israel is not perfect, but neither are the Arabs. Israel does not intentionally hijack planes, throw handicapped people over a boat or set off bombs in an area with the express purpose of INTENTIONALLY killing innocent civilians AND do these things repeatedly, with little or no consequences for the person who does it (other than being viewed as a hero). The Israeli is prosecuted and thrown in jail. There are exceptions on the Israeli side, but the vast majority of the intentional killing of innocent civilians is at the hand of the Arabs. You are engaging in a moral equivalency argument here. The situations are not the same. Israel had to fight a war of independence because of the FACT the Arabs started one.

Plus If you hate a fellow brother or sister haven’t you already committed murder in your heart? What ever happened to “Love thy neighbor” that’s one of the few things I agree with in the Bible.
I think the Israelis for the most part do. The Arabs have started the wars with Israel, NOT the other way around (with the exception of a pre-emptive strike when war was imminent). This is a FACT. It is not debatable. Most of the Arab countries now desire some type of peace (or at least seem to). It is organizations like Hammas, more rogue elements in the PLO, Al Qaeda, and Iran who do not. The point is that Israel has made and been willing to make concessions if the other side is serious and security can be guaranteed. Examples: Camp David accords, Israeli proposals made by Rabin and Baruk.

But I shouldn’t ramble. The point is I’m not saying the Jews I chat with are murderers I’m saying allot of Jews hate Palestinians and therefore fellow Hebrews.
Wrong. Most Jews do not “hate” palestinians. They just want peace.

A Hebrew is not an Arab or a palestinian. A Hebrew is by definition a Jew. I thought I made this clear. A Hebrew is a Jew. A Jew is a Hebrew. An Arab is not and cannot be a Hebrew as they are not Jews. Is that clear now?

Maybe I should make that some since I don’t want to speak for the majority of the Jewish population. Also if I’m “anti semantic” doesn’t that make them anti semantic for not believing the Palestinians should have the right to live in Israel if they want?

Arabs DO live in Israel. They are referred to as Israeli Arabs. The vast majority are peaceful and integrate well. They vote, they have all the rights as other people in Israel do. Would Jews be accorded these rights in a nearby Arab country or in the Gaza Strip? The Druze are Israeli muslims and a very good example. They consider themselve to be Muslims and that they practice Islam, although most Muslims disagree. The Druze VOLUNTARILY serve in the Israeli Defense Force (have done so since 1948) Also, at the community's request—compulsorily since 1956.

Your last question is redundant. I answered your question previously. In detail even. If you re-read what I said, the answer is there.

I can't answer the question regarding a palestinian who stops practicing Islam because I do not know the answer.

With this comment:
When a politician who hasn’t even seen a war orders his soldiers to kill civilians, to me that is murder.

I think you are confusing George W. Bush with Israeli prime ministers. Everyone pretty much serves in the Israeli Defense Forces.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri Nov 04, 05 7:28pm [+]

I’ll cut out the first few quotes to keep this comment shorter, I hope it doesn’t get confusing. I’ll also quote selected parts from your last post.

killing to preserve life or to save the life of others is about the only way killing can be justified, until then I take the command “Thou shall not kill” to literally mean killing.

I know I’ve heard of Jews who are against Zionism. Plus non Jews can be Zionists as well.

“Jews were there as well under varying levels of oppression under a caliphate or the Ottoman Empire”.
I know 5% lived in Palestine and they were living in piece with the arabs before the Zionist army came in 20 years after the international Zionist confrence began behind closed doors.

“There has NEVER been a country for the palestinians. NEVER. The area has been part of the caliphate, the Ottoman Empire, Syria and Jordan. This is a FACT. It is not debatable. The palestinians are simply Arabs. There has been a state of Israel, although sometimes ruled by the Romans, etc. This is a FACT.”
Fine. But it’s also a fact after the UN divided up Israel and Palestine in 1948 Zionists still illegally took Palestine territory which by then was recognised by the UN. The UN even meet to discuss Israel taking more land from Arabs which was a violation of international law and passed UN resolution 242which forbids the Zionists from keeping land it took in its attacks.

“Tanks and armies. Wrong. The Jews of Israel only had small arms with which to defend themselves. Israel was willing to accept the partition approved by the United Nations, but the Arabs were not. They started a war with Israel even before statehood became official”
The Zionist army still targeted innocent civilians. Your right I’m not saying the Palestinians are angels but neither are the Zionists. Its good when you don’t belong to either groups, you’re not biased and can look at the situation as a observer.

“There are exceptions on the Israeli side”
Like the Lavon affair in 1954 where Israel soldiers killed American targets in Egypt, or when Israel attacked a school In April 1970 and thousand Palestinians were murdered including innocent children who were defenceless and probably never hurt a single Jew in there lives. Or when 2,000 men, women and children were murdered Lebanon by the Israel army or In 1982, or the Al-Aqsa Mosque Massacure in October 1990 where 23 Palestinians were killed and 850 wounded. I can go on forever.

“The Arabs have started the wars with Israel, NOT the other way around (with the exception of a pre-emptive strike when war was imminent). This is a FACT. It is not debatable”
Does that mean the Arabs who have there land stolen today deserve to be forced out of there homes because of the actions of there ancestors?

“Wrong. Most Jews do not “hate” palestinians. They just want peace.”
Right. Real Jews are good people, the ones whoa ctually follow the law of Moses and take thou shall not kill seriously. But there’s extremists in every religion who always give that particular religion a bad name like Osama Binladen for instance.

“A Hebrew is not an Arab or a palestinian. A Hebrew is by definition a Jew. I thought I made this clear. A Hebrew is a Jew. A Jew is a Hebrew. An Arab is not and cannot be a Hebrew as they are not Jews. Is that clear now?”
so basically all Hebrews are Jews but not all Jews are Hebrews? Some non Hebrews can convert to Judaism.

“Arabs DO live in Israel”
So how long have Arabs lived in Israel? I just wish the Zionist soldiers had let the Palestinians stay in Israel then I’d support the state of Israel. I just don’t like it when people are forced out of there homes, even if there state has not been officially recognised.

And inter I’m still waiting for your reply, I’d love to see evidence outside the bible and torah that the events of exodus happened or that the “Prophets” of the old testament actually exist. Judaism actually makes more sense then most of the organized religions out there.

by seon on Fri Nov 04, 05 10:26pm [+]

" Fine. But it’s also a fact after the UN divided up Israel and Palestine in 1948 Zionists still illegally took Palestine territory which by then was recognised by the UN. "

No, in 1948 the UN determined that 45% of Palestine would be an Arab country. However, the Arabs rejected it by going to war with Israel, and Israel ended up gaining 78% of the land, approved by the armistice agreements of 1948-1949, and latter approved by the UN. The 78% portion was never opposed by the UN, but from some reason, the same logic didn't work in 1967, when Israel gained the other 22%. This was the unacceptable outcome, even though it's obvious that if israel had already taken those territories in 1948, there wouldn't have been a problem with it. resolution 242 refers only to the 22% gained in 1967.

" The Zionist army still targeted innocent civilians. Your right I’m not saying the Palestinians are angels but neither are the Zionists. Its good when you don’t belong to either groups, you’re not biased and can look at the situation as a observer. "

In the context of 1948 war, you should remember that there were many armed groups of Zionists, not following the same leadership. That way, before the formation of the IDF which unified those groups in the end of June 1948, many groups acted according to their own policy, and not according to the mainstream, including the groups who committed what I think you refer to as "targetting civilians". It took the newborn Israel less than month and a half to unify its forces and force the numerous groups to accept one authority, which took more moderate approach. You can compare that to the situation in the Palestinian authority today, when Hamas and other terror organizations doesn't follow the Palestinian official leadership (and the groups who do, are also using terrorism).

" I can go on forever. "

With a list of war crimes? So can I, and yours are much worse. BTW, can you give more details about the attack in April 1970? I don't recognize...

" Does that mean the Arabs who have there land stolen today deserve to be forced out of there homes because of the actions of there ancestors? "

Arabs today are not forced out of their homes, as a policy to make room for Jewish settlers, if that's what you mean. When a Palestinian today complains that the Jews steal his land, and drives him out of there by the settlements, he usually means that the settlers settle empty / non vacant ground in the WB.

by Yosi on Sat Nov 05, 05 12:18am [+]

"So how long have Arabs lived in Israel? I just wish the Zionist soldiers had let the Palestinians stay in Israel then I’d support the state of Israel. I just don’t like it when people are forced out of there homes, even if there state has not been officially recognised. "

The Palestinians who were forced out (as opposed to those who moved away by themselves) were primarily population which initiated many attacks on Jewish civilians before and after the creation of Israel. They also declared that they'll never accept Israel, not to mention follow its laws or even stop fighting it. The peaceful populations, which stated that they'll accept Israel and be willing to become its citizens, weren't forced out, and latter were given full rights as Israeli citizens. I don't think that, for example, the Australian authorities acted differently towards the hostile aboriginals who lived near Sydney, Melborne and Perth. They were forced out of their homes too, if not worse - am I right?

by Yosi on Sat Nov 05, 05 12:29am [+]

seon
what part of this: so basically all Hebrews are Jews but not all Jews are Hebrews? Some non Hebrews can convert to Judaism.
do you not understand? I've defined who is a Jew several times.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Nov 05, 05 5:37am [+]

btw seon
"palestinians" do live in Israel. They aren't subject ed to constant harassment and the threat of getting blown up for just going to get some coffee at a Starbucks or some place like that. Is the same true for a Jew living in the Gaza Strip?

Stealing land is an odd example for you to bring up as Jews were forbidden for a long time (pre-1948) to ever own property.

Does that mean the Arabs who have there land stolen today deserve to be forced out of there homes because of the actions of there ancestors?

Well, lets see. The Arabs started all the wars and lost land. If Aboriginals in Australia started all the wars against the immigrants to Australia (even though many of them legitimately bought the land), should the Australians have to give all the land back? Or should they learn to live in peace?

Jews are Hebrews, Jews are Israelites, Hebrews are Jews and Israelites. Converts are considered Jews and Israelites.

If you are an Arab and convert to Judaism, then you are now a Jew. The same as if a Muslim convert to Christianity. They are now considered a Christian.

It is a bit more complicated for Judaism, admittedly, because of ethnicity, etc.

Maybe if the palestinians, etc, realized that they are genetically closely related to Jews, instead of being indoctrinated to hate Jews, there might be more peace in that region.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Nov 05, 05 9:30am [+]

Yoshi:
That doesn’t change the fact that Israel ignored the UN resolution to stop taking Palestinian land.

Were the Zionists who didn’t follow the leadership ever tried for there crimes like the Nazi war criminals were? If they were (all of them) then I admit I was wrong about Israel, but that doesn’t change the fact that areal Sharon was a terrorist before he became prime minister, as was Yitzhak Shamir who was wanted for murder by the Britsh government. But if the Zionists were brought to justice then fair enough.

I don’t have much info on it but in 1970 Israel attacked a Egyptian school killing 58 children, I was wrong I think I must have got the number of wounded mixed up with the number who were actually killed but 58 is still horrible. They were just children.

Come on what about the Gaza strip? I know the Egyptians owned that strip but its evidence that Israel is still illegally taking territory. Also what about when Palestinian civilians were shoot simply for getting to close?

Well why should they follow its laws? Pretend you were a Palestinian civilian just minding your own business then all of a sudden a hostile army comes in and forces your fellow countrymen out of there homes and clams “God” gave them that land? Would you submit to it? I know I wouldn’t that’s for sure.

The aboriginal example could also be used to say why the Jewish people don’t have the right to govern Israel anymore, most of them left. The Palestinians have been living in Palestine ever since. Yes the Aborigines were treated badly by the Australia government but the Native Americans were treated badly by the American government as well. But I thought I’d point out Australia and America were ruled by the British Empire when they did this and they are known for there hostility towards native people.

by seon on Sat Nov 05, 05 2:20pm [+]

Fiddle:
what about a Palastinian who used to get to close to the gaza strip and was shoot? What about all the other innocent civilians who were killed or the ones who are killed for the “eye for a eye” thing?

“Or should they learn to live in peace?”
I think that’s the first thing I agree with you on, your right they should live in piece instead of making Israel strictly a Jewish state or strictly a Muslim state. Besides the Jews today weren’t the ones who murdered innocent civilians, they should have the right to live in Israel as well. But do they have Palestinians in the Israel government or is it all Zionists?

“It is a bit more complicated for Judaism, admittedly, because of ethnicity, etc.”
Yeah you’re right but I’m getting it now.

“Maybe if the palestinians, etc, realized that they are genetically closely related to Jews, instead of being indoctrinated to hate Jews, there might be more peace in that region.”
Yeah I admit in Muslim schools there taught to hate the Jews but I don’t see the point, they do share the same dna as we discussed and they both believe in God, the Jews just don’t recognise Muhammad. But I also admitted the Palestinians aren’t angels, I just know the Zionists have committed some horrible crimes as well.

by seon on Sat Nov 05, 05 2:21pm [+]

And johan_moritz there’s no evidence that the Jews are the only members of the Trilateral commission, the Bilderberg group or the world bank. It’s all run by evil bloodlines, but there’s no evidence that it’s only run by Jews. Please take your hatred elsewhere.

by seon on Sat Nov 05, 05 2:32pm [+]

Both in a sense. Zionists control/help with America's middle east policy while Jews control business' and the law. Bankers, lawyers, and the big dogs are all Jews or mostly Jews. The only reason it's not all run by Jews is because there aren't enough Jews to hold these positions. Especially the new coming Jews from Ukraine and the former Soviet Union provinces.

by Liberal_Democrat on Sat Nov 05, 05 6:06pm [+]

Oh so the Jews just control America in sense of the middle east policy but not actually the government, or is there evidence the Jews control the government as well? Is there evidence that all the world bankers are Jewish? if its true is it really a Jewish agenda or does it just happen that the world bankers are Jewish?

by seon on Sat Nov 05, 05 6:17pm [+]

The aboriginal example could also be used to say why the Jewish people don’t have the right to govern Israel anymore, most of them left.
They were forced out. Those that remained in the land of Israel or anywhere in the Arab world were oppressed. The same could be said of pretty much anywhere they went to.

I don’t have much info on it but in 1970 Israel attacked a Egyptian school killing 58 children, I was wrong I think I must have got the number of wounded mixed up with the number who were actually killed but 58 is still horrible. They were just children.

Where do you get this one sided information? Was this attack accidental or on purpose? Were terrorists/PLO hiding there? I think your answer can be found in answering these questions.

Before you start talking about Zionist "attacks", you ought to consider the following: The PLO has INTENTIONALLY targeted schools/school buses, and other innocent civilians. Would you like a list to see who is worse? (I'll give you one) It is the PLO. Their attacks on civilians are ALWAYS intentional, not an accident. That's the big difference between the PLO and Israel.

INTENTIONAL ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS
1929: Hebron Massacre: Arab rioters killed 67 Jews in Hebron. Many of the dead were dismembered. Many incidents of rape were reported. Numerous homes were burned.

1970 February 21, Swissair Flight 330, bomb detonated in flight, killing 38 passengers and 9 crew.

1970 May 8, An ambush attack known as the Avivim school bus massacre took place on May 8, near Avivim, an agricultural community in Israel founded in 1963 by Moroccan immigrants. The attack caused the death of nine children aged between six and nine and three adults, and left nineteen others maimed.

May 30, 1972, a three-man hit squad from the Japanese Red Army attacked civilians at the Lod Airport in Tel Aviv, Israel in an operation planned and supported by the General Command of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP-GC). Twenty-six people were killed in the massacre and 78 were injured.

1972 Munich Massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Summer Olympics.

1974 Ma'alot massacre: members of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP), a faction affiliated with the PLO, infiltrated into Israel dressed as Israeli soldiers, and stormed a high school in Ma'alot, a community in northern Israel, where a group of 100 14-16 year olds were sleeping on the floor after a day spent hiking.

1994 October 19: 22 people killed and more than 50 wounded when a Hamas suicide bomber blew himself up Tel Aviv city bus

1996 March 4: A suicide bomber exploded outside the Dizengoff Center, a Tel Aviv shopping mall, murdering 20 and injuring 75 others, including United States citizens.

1997 September 4: Three people were killed and 166 wounded when three suicide bombers detonated at Jerusalem's Ben-Yehuda pedestrian mall.

Hell, the palestinians even pissed off Jordan enough for King Hussein to use the Jordanian army on them. Oh, also, this was due to the PLO declaring war on Jordan.

Lets not forget this (I'm sure it was just an accident)
Dawson's Field hijackings
Attempt to hijack FIVE aircraft, 4 of which were successful
* El Al Flight 219, a Boeing 707, originated in Tel Aviv, Israel and was headed to New York City. It had 148 passengers and 10 crew members aboard. It stopped in Amsterdam, Netherlands, and was hijacked shortly after it took off from there by Patrick Arguello, a Nicaraguan, and Leila Khaled, a Palestinian. El Al security officers shot and killed Arguello and captured Khaled. The plane landed safely at Heathrow Airport in London, where Khaled was turned over to authorities. The original plan was to have four hijackers aboard this flight, but two were unable to board in Amsterdam.
* Pan American Flight 93, a Boeing 747, was carrying 152 passengers and 17 crew. The flight was from Brussels, Belgium to New York with a stop in Amsterdam. The two hijackers bumped from the El Al flight boarded, and hijacked, this flight. It first landed in Beirut where it refueled and picked up several associates of the hijackers. It then landed in Cairo. The plane was blown up at Cairo after everybody deplaned.
* TWA Flight 74, a Boeing 707. was an around-the-world flight carrying 141 passengers and a crew of 10. It was hijacked shortly after taking off from Frankfurt am Main, Germany. It landed at Dawson's Field in Jordan.
* Swissair Flight 100, a DC-8, carrying 143 passengers and 12 crew flying from Zurich, Switzerland to New York. It also landed at Dawson's Field.

On the following day, a fifth plane, BOAC flight 775, a VC-10, was hijacked and brought to Dawson's Field. This was unplanned by PFLP, but the work of a sympathizer who wanted leverage with the British to free Leila Khaled.

On September 12, after taking the passengers off, the guerrillas blew up the three planes (TWA, Swissair, BOAC) in the Jordan desert

oh geee. I almost forgot about hizballah

June 14, 1985, Between Athens and Rome. Two Hizballah members hijacked a TWA Flight 847 en route to Rome from Athens and forced the pilot to fly to Beirut. The terrorists asked for the release of members of the group Kuwait 17 and 700 Shi'ite prisoners held in Israeli and South Lebanese prisons. The eight crewmembers and 145 passengers were held for 17 days during which one of the hostages, Robert Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, was murdered.

October 7, 1985, Between Alexandria, Egypt and Haifa, Israel. A four-member Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine squad took over the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro, as it was sailing from Alexandria, Egypt, to Israel. The squad murdered a DISABLED U.S. citizen IN A WHEELCHAIR, Leon Klinghoffer, by throwing him in the ocean. The rest of the passengers were held hostage for two days and later released after the terrorists turned themselves in to Egyptian authorities in return for safe passage. Fortunately, U.S. Navy fighters intercepted the Egyptian aircraft flying the terrorists to Tunis and forced it to land at the NATO airbase in Italy, where the terrorists were arrested. Two of the terrorists were tried in Italy and sentenced to prison. The Italian authorities however let the two others ESCAPE on diplomatic passports. Abu Abbas, who masterminded the hijacking, was later convicted to life imprisonment in absentia.

I only gave you a small amount of the attacks against innocent civilians. Would you like some more?

Who is following their laws? Are palestinians doing what the Koran teaches?

Well why should they follow its laws? Pretend you were a Palestinian civilian just minding your own business then all of a sudden a hostile army comes in and forces your fellow countrymen out of there homes and clams “God” gave them that land? Would you submit to it? I know I wouldn’t that’s for sure.

That is bogus. You don't want to listen to the truth. It is hardly just Yosi and I. Felix has tried to reach you as well.

Israel was willing to accept the original partition (which was decided based on the majority living in each area) and live in peace. Oh I forgot, the Arabs weren't. Israel was willing to live with different boundaries after that. Oh damn. The Arabs attacked again in 1967. And on and on and on....... Who is willing to live in peace and who is not?

The biggest problem in this is the constant indoctrination of many in the muslim world against Jews. One only need look at Iran for a good example.

If this type of thing were ended, I would think that peace had a much better chance.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Nov 05, 05 6:51pm [+]

The PLO has INTENTIONALLY targeted schools/school buses, and other innocent civilians. Would you like a list to see who is worse? (I'll give you one) It is the PLO. Their attacks on civilians are ALWAYS intentional, not an accident. That's the big difference between the PLO and Israel.

INTENTIONAL ATTACKS ON CIVILIANS
1929: Hebron Massacre: Arab rioters killed 67 Jews in Hebron. Many of the dead were dismembered. Many incidents of rape were reported. Numerous homes were burned.

1970 February 21, Swissair Flight 330, bomb detonated in flight, killing 38 passengers and 9 crew.

1970 May 8, An ambush attack known as the Avivim school bus massacre took place on May 8, near Avivim, an agricultural community in Israel founded in 1963 by Moroccan immigrants. The attack caused the death of nine children aged between six and nine and three adults, and left nineteen others maimed.

May 30, 1972, a three-man hit squad from the Japanese Red Army attacked civilians at the Lod Airport in Tel Aviv, Israel in an operation planned and supported by the General Command of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP-GC). Twenty-six people were killed in the massacre and 78 were injured.

1972 Munich Massacre of Israeli athletes at the 1972 Summer Olympics.

1974 Ma'alot massacre: members of the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine (DFLP), a faction affiliated with the PLO, infiltrated into Israel dressed as Israeli soldiers, and stormed a high school in Ma'alot, a community in northern Israel, where a group of 100 14-16 year olds were sleeping on the floor after a day spent hiking.

1994 October 19: 22 people killed and more than 50 wounded when a Hamas suicide bomber blew himself up Tel Aviv city bus

1996 March 4: A suicide bomber exploded outside the Dizengoff Center, a Tel Aviv shopping mall, murdering 20 and injuring 75 others, including United States citizens.

1997 September 4: Three people were killed and 166 wounded when three suicide bombers detonated at Jerusalem's Ben-Yehuda pedestrian mall.

Hell, the palestinians even pissed off Jordan enough for King Hussein to use the Jordanian army on them. Oh, also, this was due to the PLO declaring war on Jordan.

Lets not forget this (I'm sure it was just an accident)
Dawson's Field hijackings
Attempt to hijack FIVE aircraft, 4 of which were successful
El Al Flight 219, a Boeing 707, originated in Tel Aviv, Israel and was headed to New York City. It had 148 passengers and 10 crew members aboard. It stopped in Amsterdam, Netherlands, and was hijacked shortly after it took off from there by Patrick Arguello, a Nicaraguan, and Leila Khaled, a Palestinian. El Al security officers shot and killed Arguello and captured Khaled. The plane landed safely at Heathrow Airport in London, where Khaled was turned over to authorities. The original plan was to have four hijackers aboard this flight, but two were unable to board in Amsterdam.
Pan American Flight 93, a Boeing 747, was carrying 152 passengers and 17 crew. The flight was from Brussels, Belgium to New York with a stop in Amsterdam. The two hijackers bumped from the El Al flight boarded, and hijacked, this flight. It first landed in Beirut where it refueled and picked up several associates of the hijackers. It then landed in Cairo. The plane was blown up at Cairo after everybody deplaned.
TWA Flight 74, a Boeing 707. was an around-the-world flight carrying 141 passengers and a crew of 10. It was hijacked shortly after taking off from Frankfurt am Main, Germany. It landed at Dawson's Field in Jordan.
Swissair Flight 100, a DC-8, carrying 143 passengers and 12 crew flying from Zurich, Switzerland to New York. It also landed at Dawson's Field.

On the following day, a fifth plane, BOAC flight 775, a VC-10, was hijacked and brought to Dawson's Field. This was unplanned by PFLP, but the work of a sympathizer who wanted leverage with the British to free Leila Khaled.

On September 12, after taking the passengers off, the guerrillas blew up the three planes (TWA, Swissair, BOAC) in the Jordan desert

oh geee. I almost forgot about hizballah

June 14, 1985, Between Athens and Rome. Two Hizballah members hijacked a TWA Flight 847 en route to Rome from Athens and forced the pilot to fly to Beirut. The terrorists asked for the release of members of the group Kuwait 17 and 700 Shi'ite prisoners held in Israeli and South Lebanese prisons. The eight crewmembers and 145 passengers were held for 17 days during which one of the hostages, Robert Stethem, a U.S. Navy diver, was murdered.

October 7, 1985, Between Alexandria, Egypt and Haifa, Israel. A four-member Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine squad took over the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro, as it was sailing from Alexandria, Egypt, to Israel. The squad murdered a DISABLED U.S. citizen IN A WHEELCHAIR, Leon Klinghoffer, by throwing him in the ocean. The rest of the passengers were held hostage for two days and later released after the terrorists turned themselves in to Egyptian authorities in return for safe passage. Fortunately, U.S. Navy fighters intercepted the Egyptian aircraft flying the terrorists to Tunis and forced it to land at the NATO airbase in Italy, where the terrorists were arrested. Two of the terrorists were tried in Italy and sentenced to prison. The Italian authorities however let the two others ESCAPE on diplomatic passports. Abu Abbas, who masterminded the hijacking, was later convicted to life imprisonment in absentia.

I only gave you a small amount of the attacks against innocent civilians. Would you like some more?

Who is following their laws? Are palestinians doing what the Koran teaches?

Well why should they follow its laws? Pretend you were a Palestinian civilian just minding your own business then all of a sudden a hostile army comes in and forces your fellow countrymen out of there homes and clams “God” gave them that land? Would you submit to it? I know I wouldn’t that’s for sure.

That is bogus. You don't want to listen to the truth. It is hardly just Yosi and I. Felix has tried to reach you as well.

Israel was willing to accept the original partition (which was decided based on the majority living in each area) and live in peace. Oh I forgot, the Arabs weren't. Israel was willing to live with different boundaries after that. Oh damn. The Arabs attacked again in 1967. And on and on and on....... Who is willing to live in peace and who is not?

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Nov 05, 05 6:58pm [+]

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Nov 05, 05 7:00pm [+]

LD, your comment is ridiculous.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Nov 05, 05 7:02pm [+]

"Killing and murder is the same thing. When a politician who hasn’t even seen a war orders his soldiers to kill civilians, to me that is murder."

It doesn't matter what it means to you.

There is a difference between kill and murder. Do you eat meat? Have you ever murdered a fly?

The Bible, which you were quoting makes the distinction. If you want to argue the bible fine. But if you think that you can define something anyway you want and have anyone agree with you then you are sadly mistaken.

" Dr. Baruch Kappel Goldstein who killed 29 Muslims and injured approximately 100 in a 1994 shooting attack in the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron, Israel."

I googled this guy and it seems to me that he was observant. I can't find any information that he was a Zionist BUT NOT a Jew. So you still fail to demonstrate your hypothesis.

"Are those the actions of a Jew who follows the commandment “Thou shall not kill” and before you accuse me of using a “conspiracy site” I used en . Wikipedia . org which only reports the facts."

I don't think that anyone has ever claimed that Jews individually are exempt from amoral acts. Nor would I make that statement about a Catholic.

Are you trying to say that I am going to defend the action of a madman because I generally support the same side as him?

FYI I don't think that someone who kills an abortion doctor is "living in the light of God" either.

"well I do but if you don’t follow the law of Moses and believe in God, how do you practice the Judaism religion? "

That is not for you to decide, now is it?

"Palestinians yet accuse me of being anti Semitic when I point out they lived in Palestine for hundreds of years"

There is some ignorance and intolerance everywhere. That doesn't mean that they are all saying that you are anti-semitic.

"Plus If you hate a fellow brother or sister haven’t you already committed murder in your heart?"

What the hell are you talking about?

"“Love thy neighbor” that’s one of the few things I agree with in the Bible"

Really? Then it is obvious, like the 9/11 Report, that you haven't read it.

How about turn the other cheek?

Or do unto others as you would have them do to you?

Many others, but I am not a prosletyzer.

Maybe you should actually try to understand something before you condemn it in your ignorance.

"Maybe I should make that some since I don’t want to speak for the majority of the Jewish population"

Maybe you shouldn't presume to speak for any of them since you obviously disdain them.

"“Exodus has been widely, historically confirmed”
Ok where? And why didn’t the Egyptians mention how the Jews escaped Egypt or how the pharos army drowned in the dead sea? And if God has the power to “harden the Pharos heart” why doesn’t he just fill the Pharaoh with love for the Jews and let them go, this sparing the lives of the firstborn sons of Egypt who did nothing to the Jews, some were still innocent babies. It would have saved Moses from having to send Egypt those plagues and stuff wouldn’t it? "

There are various sources. Some of them would require that you read a book before you cndemn it though. Recently I saw a special on the History Channel. But you can believe it or just condemn it and keep on

"asking the hard questions". lol lol

Your ignorance shows. Moses didn't send the plagues.

And besides I didn't say that that was historical accurate. I said the Exodus is. And that Pontius Pilate is. That means that there is significant proof on the part of secular (that means non-religious) historians who are trying to get to the bottom of things.

The questions you ask are base here. I can't answer why Jesus didn't just ask God to spare him the trial of the cross. But I believe he could have and God would have saved him. But that is a religious belief not one that is historically provable.

Your last paragraph is just stupid.

I didn't make the claim as I said above that Jesus' death was or could be historically proven, although I think that there is tons of evidence for it.

See, the thing is that you have got so used to just ignoring the conradictory information that you are really beyond help.

I have to tell you that I REREAD THE 9/11 COMMISION REPORT after you made the claim that everything in it was a lie.

You should read it because there is alot of information in there that would make your arguments more cogent.

by inter_regnum on Sat Nov 05, 05 7:39pm [+]

I just typed a long comment and I think it is lost. Will this one go thru?

by inter_regnum on Sat Nov 05, 05 7:40pm [+]

Exactly most of them left, the land became Palestinian land and the Palestinians have been living there for hundreds of years after they left in piece with the Jews but I still think the Jews have the right to live in Israel as long as they want to live with the Palestinians in piece.

“Where do you get this one sided information? Was this attack accidental or on purpose? Were terrorists/PLO hiding there? I think your answer can be found in answering these questions”
from a documentary and it didn’t say weather the attack was on purpose or not so it could have been biased but even if it was a accident shouldn’t those responsible be brought to justice?

“Before you start talking about Zionist "attacks", you ought to consider the following: The PLO has INTE”
the what has what?

by seon on Sat Nov 05, 05 7:40pm [+]

" That doesn’t change the fact that Israel ignored the UN resolution to stop taking Palestinian land. "

But it raises many question about the UN logic.

" Were the Zionists who didn’t follow the leadership ever tried for there crimes like the Nazi war criminals were? "

For actions taken before the UN partition resolution (November 29 1947) they were tried by the British, if caught. Sometimes the mainstream leadership of the Zionists cooperated with the British, and help them catch the militants (1944-1945, 1946-1947). After the partition resolution, the mainstream forces forced the forces who didn't obey the formal leadership to obey and join the united forces - some time by using force and violence, so their independent harsh actions stopped. But they weren't tried.

" If they were (all of them) then I admit I was wrong about Israel, but that doesn’t change the fact that areal Sharon was a terrorist before he became prime minister, as was Yitzhak Shamir who was wanted for murder by the Britsh government. "

Shamir was punished by the British government, and was sent to exile after his trial. Sharon operated in the peroid of the IDF, so he was subjected to the military court system inspection.

"I don’t have much info on it but in 1970 Israel attacked a Egyptian school killing 58 children, I was wrong I think I must have got the number of wounded mixed up with the number who were actually killed but 58 is still horrible. They were just children. "

I'm sure that the school wasn't the target of the attack - the Israeli response to this needs to be checked.

" Come on what about the Gaza strip? I know the Egyptians owned that strip but its evidence that Israel is still illegally taking territory. Also what about when Palestinian civilians were shoot simply for getting to close? "

I've lost the context of that one. If the context is that Israel steals land, the case in Gaza is (or was) just the same as the WB. The Israelis took and settled territories who were considered by the Palestinians as impossible to live there, no Palestinian was evacuated from his home to make room for those settlements.

" Well why should they follow its laws? Pretend you were a Palestinian civilian just minding your own business then all of a sudden a hostile army comes in and forces your fellow countrymen out of there homes and clams “God” gave them that land? Would you submit to it? I know I wouldn’t that’s for sure. "

They had 2 options, to accept the fact that they are now living in Israel - thus follow its rules, or to resist to Israel, not agreeing to be part of Israel. If they chose the second option, should Israel keep them? Many countries require some form of commitment to follow the law from people who wish to become citizens, otherwise they are expelled.

How exactly can the Aboriginal case be used to show that the Jews don't have a right to govern Israel? And you're telling me that if the Australian had self rule in earlier stage of the colonization of the continent (like the USA) the native Australian would be treated differently? And that Aboriginals, who wouldn't follow the laws of Australia and continued to attack Australian settlers, would be allowed to stay in their villages from which they mount their attacks?

by Yosi on Sat Nov 05, 05 7:47pm [+]

test

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sun Nov 06, 05 3:57am [+]

HOW COME IT SEEMS TO BE PC ON THIS SITE TO BASH JEWS AND CHRISTIANS BUT NOT MUSLIMS?

My point is that people seem to be reluctant to ask some difficult questions. I think that is necessary. I have asked some hard questions of the muslims on this site. I think that herzog has a right to ask questions. What bothers me is when people try to shut up someone who is asking questions.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Aug 04, 2005 11:21pm

FiddleFaddleOnLSD, please accept your trophy as 'Hypocrite of the Year 2005 on Best and Worst.com'

by Ken_from_Dublin on Thu Nov 10, 05 2:07pm [+]

Is it any coindidence that they are spoken of in whispers(save college protesters over the Palistine issue) and that they vastly and disproportionately own and control the media networks,book publishing companies(they largely decide what form of history is taught)newspapers?Is it any coincidence that they were much more heavily involved in the African slave trade to the Americas than white gentiles(ESPECIALLY GERMANS who owned NO slaves) yet this has somehow been overlooked by ALL history book publishers in the US?Is it any coincidence that there is deafening silence over the fact that Israel supplied much of the bad intelligense reports reguarding Iraqi weapons capabilities and that prominent Jewish Americans and prominent Israelis declared removing Saddam to be a major tenet in a plan to stabalize the middle east in Israel's interest?Is it any coincidence at all that there are mounting numbers of people from Canada to Europe who are finding themselves in prison simply for publicly declaring a disbeleif in the official Jewish version of the Holocaust?Is it ANY coincidence that so called "anti semitic" websites are being shut down worldwide thus silencing dissent?Is it a coincidence that they have been nothing but victims throughout history,in EVERY conflict they found themselves in?Why are they above criticism?Why must you speak in whispers and look over your shoulder if you criticise Jews remotely?Why do you have to bend over backwards to assure people that you are not against all Jews,just the bad ones?Why is that you can go to a public library and find COUNTLESS books intended to shame white gentile's over their ancestors but you will not find a single such book as critical of Jews throughout Jewish history?Why do I not have to worry about being critical of blacks,whites or asians but talks about jews and watch out!?
Why did they make such an ungodly stink over a single movie "The Passion of the Christ" in light of the utter rock bottom sh-t perversion of Gentile history?
I like a number of Jews and hell ... one of my late grandmothers may well have been Jewish.I just wish that they could be ALOT more self effacing and honest,really.

by robotthinker on Fri Nov 11, 05 2:30pm [+]

The neoconservative war machinery:

Richard Perle emerged as Chairman of George Bush's Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee;

Douglas Feith emerged as Under Secretary of Defense and the Pentagon's Policy Advisor;

Paul Wolfowitz, was Deputy Defense Secretary and campaign advisor;

Robert Satloff, was U.S. National Security Council Advisor;

Rabbi Dov Zekheim was Under Secretary of Defense and Comptroller;

Elliott Abrams, National Security Council Advisor;

Marc Grossman, Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs;

Richard Haass, Director of Policy Planning at the State Department and Director of National Security Programs;

Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State a Pentagon advisor who sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board;

James Schlesinger, another Pentagon advisor who also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board;

Robert Zoellick, the U.S.'s Trade Representative;

Mel Sembler, President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States;

Israeli citizen Ari Fleischer, who served as the official White House spokesman for the first Bush administration;

Joshua Bolten, Bush's Chief Policy Director;

Steve Goldsmith, Senior Advisor to the President and domestic policy advisor;

Mark Weinberger, the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury;

Samuel Bodman, Deputy Secretary of Commerce;

Bonnie Cohen, Under Secretary of State for Management;

Ruth Davis, the Director of the Foreign Service Institute;

Lincoln Bloomfield, Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs;

Jay Lefkowitz, General Counsel of the Office of Budget and Management;

David Frum, Bush's official White House speechwriter,the one who wrote Bush's speach declaring the need to "sprread freedom"

Ken Melman, White House Political Director;

Brad Blakeman, White House Director of Scheduling;

George Tenet, head of the CIA. It was Tenet who manufactured all the welter of lies, half truths and deceptions about Saddam Hussein and Iraq.

by robotthinker on Fri Nov 11, 05 2:39pm [+]

^^ Let's not forget that the "NEWS" media DARE NOT point out the numbers of prominent Jews who pushed for this war.Neither were a coincidence.

by robotthinker on Fri Nov 11, 05 2:43pm [+]

You have some serious issues with Jews, don't you robotthinker?

The overwhelming number of Jews in the US opposed the war with Iraq and still do.

Anti-Semitic web sites? I see a number of the biggies still out there.

This is bullshit: find COUNTLESS books intended to shame white gentile's over their ancestors but you will not find a single such book as critical of Jews throughout Jewish history? How about reading the Koran? It has plenty of derogatory comments about Jews.

Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany by their own choice. If I remember correctly, you have either denied this or minimized it. Of course this is despite all evidence to the contrary.

I like a number of Jews and hell ... I doubt many would like you if they knew about your spiels on here.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Mon Nov 14, 05 4:15pm [+]

Is it any coincidence at all that there are mounting numbers of people from Canada to Europe who are finding themselves in prison simply for publicly declaring a disbeleif in the official Jewish version of the Holocaust?

Holocaust denial is the purview of morons. No serious or legitimate historian disputes that this occurred or the numbers. There is plenty of evidence including that of the Nuremberg Trials. Of course, they were tortured blah blah blah into admitting it.

It is hardly a "Jewish" version of the Holocaust. It is a documented FACT.

Even in the countries where it is permitted to minimize or deny the Holocaust, it ought to be enough evidence of insanity and stupidity for the person to have to get some serious psychological treatment.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Mon Nov 14, 05 5:08pm [+]

"You have some serious issues with Jews, don't you robotthinker?"

Everybody does except those whose entire history are taught by them.In that case they are unaware that they are sheep.But do us a favor and not assume that I don't distiguish between good individuals and bad individuals of every stripe.I don't just say it,I mean it.

"The overwhelming number of Jews in the US opposed the war with Iraq and still do."

Not the ones I mentioned and that is not trivial or insignificant.For the ones who oppose,great to hear that.

"Anti-Semitic web sites? I see a number of the biggies still out there."

The internet poses a problem to the unending web of Zionist lies out there and free speech on the web is under assault by who?However you cannot compare the influence of websites by a few heretics and revisionists to total media control,history lessons,the ownership of major publishing companies,....

"This is bullshit: find COUNTLESS books intended to shame white gentile's over their ancestors but you will not find a single such book as critical of Jews throughout Jewish history? How about reading the Koran? It has plenty of derogatory comments about Jews."

Public libraries and bookstores are RIDDLED with such books and some profess OPENLY to bashing "dead white males".(gentiles that is)You talk about the Koran for what reason?

"Denying the Holocaust is a crime in Germany by their own choice."

Really??Ordinary Germans opted to have their free speech infringed apon?Do you even realize the scope of your own comment? It's a "crime" to challenge the Jewish account(without common concensus even among Jews mind you!) of the Holocaust.YOU just spelled it out and STILL you aren't making a connection.

" I like a number of Jews and hell ... I doubt many would like you if they knew about your spiels on here."

That's fine because I have no use for anybody who doesn't bother to understand me or take me for my word.

"Holocaust denial is the purview of morons. No serious or legitimate historian disputes that this occurred or the numbers. There is plenty of evidence including that of the Nuremberg Trials. Of course, they were tortured blah blah blah into admitting it."

Denial and revisionism are not the same thing.Myself I'm not so quick to label somebody a moron or conclude that they are incorrect because their opinions are controversial.There is much that does not add up about the official Jewish account of the Holocaust.History is subject to constant readjustment not to mention the obvious fact that it is written by the victors of wars.Your so called "evidence" is little more than witness acounts,some of which has been proven to be falsified testimony.The Holocaust,like any historical event,warrants continual review unless one is afraid of inconvenient truths that may emerge.

"It is hardly a "Jewish" version of the Holocaust. It is a documented FACT."

Documented like evolution?Like weather patterns?Documented like the OJ case?

"Even in the countries where it is permitted to minimize or deny the Holocaust, it ought to be enough evidence of insanity and stupidity for the person to have to get some serious psychological treatment."

Challenging a history subject to the prejudices of the writers of history of our timeis worthy of being institutionalized?Here it is,you haven't rebutted anything I've said but instead have insinuated arguments that I didn't even make.You insinuated that anybody,which must include myself,that anybody who questions the orthodoxy of historical review is dumb or insane.In that case you have said much less about me and much more about yourself.

by robotthinker on Wed Nov 16, 05 2:15pm [+]

Ah, yes, Jews own and control the entire government - yet still somehow can't even manage to get themselves elected.

by Neal_Anderthal on Fri Nov 18, 05 10:13pm [+]

American Jews are definitely influential here. The reason is simple: many of them are wealthy and own media and entertainment companies.

That said, I think most IMO, most Americans support Israel because they were reared in homes where some variety of Judeo/Christian theology was practiced.

Jesus, after all, was a Jew.

by griffon007 on Sat Nov 19, 05 4:49am [+]

Summary of Extermination Estimates
(Revised 1966)
Low to high and estimate of the Anglo-American Committee, April 1946
Germany 160,000 180,000 195,000
Austria 58,000 60,000 53,000
Czechoslovakia 241,000 251,000 255,000
Denmark Less than 100 1,500 (chiefly refugees in Sweden)
France 60,000 65,000 140,000
Belgium 25,000 28,000 57,000
Luxemburg 3,000 3,000 3,000
Norway 700 700 1,000
Holland 102,700 102,700 120,000
Italy 8,000 8,000 20,000
Jugoslavia 55,000 58,000 64,000
Greece 57,000 60,000 64,000
Bulgaria (pre-1941 frontier)- - 5,000
Rumania (pre-1940 frontier) 204,000 209,000 530,000
Hungary (1938 frontier) 180,000 200,000 200,000
Poland 2,350,000 2,600,000 3,271,000
USSR (pre-1939 frontier plus Baltic states) 700,000 750,000 1,050,000
Sum total 4,204,400 4,575,400 6,029,500

Less dispersed refugees 308,000

= 5,721,800

The "6 million" figure is from the initial 1945 Nuremberg trial estimate of 5.7 million deaths; subsequent censuses, statistical analyses, and other demographic studies of European Jewry have consistently demonstrated the essential accuracy of this first tally. After nearly 50 years of study, historians agree that approximately 6 million Jews perished during the course of the Nazi genocide.

I can give you the totals by camp if you would like. I can also provide to you the laws that were passed to discriminate and take away rights from the Jews.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sun Nov 20, 05 3:47pm [+]

The Wannsee Conference (In the Nazis own words) gives an estimate of the number of Jews to be involved in the Final Solution. This of course, does not include those already murdered. Their estimate is 11 million to be involved in the Final Solution. Some of the countries listed in that document were never conquered but the number of Jews was very small. You can compare those to the numbers of Jews remaining and the refugees. You still get approximately 6 million.

Would you care for an entire posting of the Nuremburg Trials?

Are you denying what Soviet, American and British soldiers saw and what they documented?

There is more than ample evidence.

I have spent time in Germany. The culture is one of efficiency and detail. Exact records were kept. The Nazis in WW2 were not ashamed of killing Jews, quite the contrary, they were glad. They documented everything that the Jews brought to the camps, clothing, jewelry, etc. There are literally mountains of evidence and documented testimony from the Nazis themselves.

What more would you like? I can publish an entire book.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sun Nov 20, 05 3:58pm [+]

Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee;

Henry Kissinger, former Secretary of State a Pentagon advisor who sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board;
Oh of course. He is responsible for everything

James Schlesinger, another Pentagon advisor who also sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board;
He is dovish on policy, not a neo-con.

Robert Zoellick, the U.S.'s Trade Representative;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda?

Mel Sembler, President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda?

Israeli citizen Ari Fleischer, who served as the official White House spokesman for the first Bush administration;
The US does not recognize dual citizenship. I really doubt Bush would allow a non-citizen to be his spokesman.

Joshua Bolten, Bush's Chief Policy Director;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda?

Steve Goldsmith, Senior Advisor to the President and domestic policy advisor;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda? DOMESTIC? Am I missing something here?

Mark Weinberger, the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda?

Samuel Bodman, Deputy Secretary of Commerce;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda?

Bonnie Cohen, Under Secretary of State for Management;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda?

Ruth Davis, the Director of the Foreign Service Institute;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda? That isn’t a government organization.

Lincoln Bloomfield, Assistant Secretary of State for Political Military Affairs;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda?

Jay Lefkowitz, General Counsel of the Office of Budget and Management;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda? This is about finances.

David Frum, Bush's official White House speechwriter,the one who wrote Bush's speach declaring the need to "sprread freedom"
So being a speech writer makes him guilty (by association apparently)

Ken Melman, White House Political Director;

Brad Blakeman, White House Director of Scheduling;
What does this have to do with the neo-con agenda? You have got to be KIDDING. Scheduling makes him a neo-con?

George Tenet, head of the CIA. It was Tenet who manufactured all the welter of lies, half truths and deceptions about Saddam Hussein and Iraq.
Perhaps, more like because of pressure from Cheney. Cheney is not a Jew.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sun Nov 20, 05 4:22pm [+]

I think I made my case on the Holocaust.

What more would you like? I have tons more.

And yeah, Jews control the media. You can get the source docs on just about every historical event. You can also get English language reports from the media in nearly every country.

China's mass media is controlled by Jews, isn't it? You can go on Xinhua dot net and others and get info there. Even if you assume the American mass media is dominated by Jews (which is a major stretch), there is no dearth of other sources of info.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sun Nov 20, 05 4:29pm [+]

Go to the US Holocaust Museum web site. Type "evidence" in the search button.

It will bring up a lot of things, especially photographic evidence of documents. It will also show the sheer volume of documents presented at Nuremburg for evidence regarding the Holocaust. www dot ushmm dot org

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sun Nov 20, 05 4:38pm [+]

And best of all, read the proceedings of the International Military Tribunal. It is all there. Are you going to complain that the US, Britain, France and the USSR were all controlled by Jews? It is all documented there in black and white.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sun Nov 20, 05 4:45pm [+]

Red herring!I never denied the holocaust and you know it.It looks like you are purposely pulling away from my initial comments which happen to address the question posed by the ballot. You are simply regurgitating OTHER PEOPLE'S figures and claims and the ONLY reason why there is even an "official" account of the Holocaust is because challenging those figures and claims is a PUNISHABLE CRIME.Why don't you address WHY people go to jail or lose their jobs and have their reputations tarnished if they dare challenge the OJV.Something is VERY,VERY wrong with that picture and it should concern every westerner.

"And yeah, Jews control the media. You can get the source docs on just about every historical event. You can also get English language reports from the media in nearly every country."

Lee M. Friedman, a one-time president of the American Jewish Historical Society, wrote that in Brazil, where most of the Africans actually went, "the bulk of the slave trade was in the hands of Jewish settlers."

Moshe Kahan stated bluntly that in 1653-1658, " Jewish-Marrano merchants were in control of the Spanish and Portuguese trade, were almost in control of the Levantine trade...were interested in the Dutch East and West Indian companies, were heavily involved in shipping; and, most important, had at their disposal large amounts of capital."

One study by Ira Rosenwaike published by the American Jewish Historical Society has shown that 75% of the Jews of the South owned Black slaves while 36% of the White population owned slaves.

Funny that THOSE facts are as obscure as they are and were replaced with lies,again lies, in US history books that place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Portugese,Brittish,anybody EXCEPT Jews for the african slave industry in the Americas.The fact that a most serious ommision in our history highlights a disturbing pattern of a virtual monopoly to determine what accounts for official history, which ultimately bears light on the unchecked power weilded by Jews.Kindly rebut Jewish involvement in the slave trade or forfiet the real debate.Only a great fool beleives a one sided account of all of "history".As for your holocaust #'s maybe the six million number is accurate.Then again maybe it was not.You should know that many reputable sources have varied greatly in their estimates and what were historical facts vs unproven "facts".I'd like to know how YOU know all the facts.As for your facts and figures concider that the Auschwitz figures calculated by the French Investigation Panel on Nazi-War-Crimes put the number at 8 million total for the number of people killed as Auschwitz.In the 02/05/1997 issue of USA-Today put that number at 4 million as did the Jewish weekly, Bonn.The 02/05/1997 USA-Today (daily paper USA)put that number at 1.5 million.On 08/01/194 Welt im Film (British news reel, nbr. 137)put that number at 800,000.In 1994 the Intern. Red Cross Arolsen - Department of holocaust investigations put that number at 66,206.Again,only a great fool assumes a onesided account of history.(and no,pulling up select Brittish reports or any other means nothing)

"Paul Dundes Wolfowitz (born December 22, 1943) is an American academic and political figure. He is currently the President of the World Bank, but may be most famous as a prominent architect of the ambitious foreign policy of the George W. Bush administration known as the Bush Doctrine, a role that has made him a controversial and polarizing figure both within the United States and abroad. His views are often characterized as exemplifying the modern American philosophy of neoconservatism, and he is often seen as a leading proponent of the 2003 Iraq War."

Rebut that.

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 2:14pm [+]

"Richard Norman Perle (born September 16, 1941 in New York City), is an American political advisor who served the Reagan administration as an assistant Secretary of Defense and served on the Defense Policy Board Advisory Committee from 1987 to 2004. He was Chairman of the Board from 2001 to 2003 under the Bush Administration.

Nicknamed "the Prince of Darkness," Perle was a strong advocate of the 2003 invasion of Iraq and predicted that Iraqi forces could be defeated in no more than months."

Rebut that.

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 2:32pm [+]

"Richard Perle----One of Bush's foreign policy advisors, he is the chairman of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board. A very likely Israeli government agent, Perle was expelled from Senator Henry Jackson's office in the 1970's after the National Security Agency (NSA) caught him passing Highly-Classified (National Security) documents to the Israeli Embassy. He later worked for the Israeli weapons firm, Soltam. Perle came from one the above mentioned pro-Israel thinktanks, the AEI. Perle is one of the leading pro-Israeli fanatics leading this Iraq war mongering within the administration and now in the media."

....

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 2:33pm [+]

Norman Finkelstein, a Jewish scholar who has taught political science at City University of New York (Hunter College), says in his book, 'The Holocaust Industry,' that "invoking The Holocaust" is "a ploy to delegitimize all criticism of Jews." "By conferring total blamelessness on Jews, the Holocaust dogma immunizes Israel and American Jewry from legitimate censure. ... Organized Jewry has exploited the Nazi holocaust to deflect criticism of Israel's and its own morally indefensible policies." He writes of the brazen "shakedown" of Germany, Switzerland and other countries by Israel and organized Jewry "to extort billions of dollars." "The Holocaust," Finkelstein predicts, "may yet turn out to be the 'greatest robbery in the history of mankind'."

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 2:40pm [+]

" Douglas Feith----Under Secretary of Defense and Policy Advisor at the Pentagon. He is a close associate of Perle and served as his Special Counsel. Like Perle and the others, Feith is a pro-Israel extremist, who has advocated anti-Arab policies in the past. He is closely associated with the extremist group, the Zionist Organization of America, which even attacks Jews that don't agree with its extremist views. Feith frequently speaks at ZOA conferences. Feith runs a small law firm, Feith and Zell, which only has one International office, in Israel. The majority of their legal work is representing Israeli interests. His firm's own website stated, prior to his appointment, that Feith "represents Israeli Armaments Manufacturer." Feith basically represents the Israeli War Machine. Feith also came from the Jewish thinktank JINSA. Feith, like Perle and Wolfowitz, are campaigning hard for this Israeli proxy war against Iraq."

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 2:59pm [+]

"Edward Luttwak----Member of the National Security Study Group of the Department of Defence at the Pentagon. Luttwak is reportedly an Israeli citizen and has taught in Israel. He frequently writes for Israeli and pro-Israeli newspapers and journals. Luttwak is an Israeli extremist whose main theme in many of his articles is the necessity of the U.S. waging war against Iraq."

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 3:01pm [+]

"Dov Zakheim----Under Secretary of Defense, Comptroller, and Chief Financial Officer (CFO) for the Department of Defense. He is an ordained rabbi and reportedly holds Israeli citizenship. Zakheim attended attended Jew's College in London and became an ordained Orthodox Jewish Rabbi in 1973. He was adjunct professor at New York's Jewish Yeshiva University. Zakheim is close to the Israeli lobby."

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 3:02pm [+]

"Henry Kissinger-----One of many Pentagon Advisors, Kissinger sits on the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board under Perle. For detailed information about Kissinger's evil past, read Seymour Hersch's book (Price of Power: Kissinger in the Nixon White House). Kissinger likely had a part in the Watergate crimes, Southeast Asia mass murders (Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos), Installing Chilean mass murdering dictator Pinochet, Operation Condor's mass killings in South America, and more recently served as Serbia's Ex-Dictator Slobodan Milosevic's Advisor. He consistently advocates going to war against Iraq. Kissinger is the Ariel Sharon of the U.S. Unfortunately, President Bush nominated Kissinger as chairman of the September 11 investigating commission. It's like picking a bank robber to investigate a fraud scandal."

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 3:03pm [+]

....

.....

......

by robotthinker on Mon Nov 21, 05 3:04pm [+]

In Europe today, B'nai B'rith International is establishing a monster, 55-member-nation, anti-hate gestapo, the "Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe." Drawing on the 55 nations in which B'nai B'rith has established its presence, OSCE is working closely with the European Economic Union to outlaw Biblical criticism of homosexuals and Jews. Top priority: finding a way to ban "cyberhate" -- criticism of homosexuality, matters Jewish, or the State of Israel on the Internet. OSCE attempts to establish international law, not national law, as the ultimate authority behind hate crimes law and its prosecution.

Orwellian indeed.I had better say what it is that I have to say before it becomes illegal under the global tent of ,eh-hem,you know who.

by robotthinker on Tue Nov 22, 05 11:52am [+]

Hey fiddle,I noticed that you utilize a Benjamin Franklin quote on your B&W user page.Here are a few sobering quotes from Mr Franklin that I don't think you will like:

"In whatever country Jews have settled in any great number, they have lowered its moral tone; depreciated its commercial integrity; have segregated themselves and have not been assimilated; have sneered at and tried to undermine the Christian religion upon which that nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within the state; and when opposed have tried to strangle that country to death financially, as in the case of Spain and Portugal."

"For over 1,700 years, the Jews have been bewailing their sad fate in that they have been exiled from their homeland, as they call Palestine. But gentlemen, did the world give it to them in fee simple, they would at once find some reason for not returning. Why? Because they are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live only among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and other people not of their race."

There is more but you get the gist of it.Point being Mr lsd is that Jews,like everybody else/IE Goyem, have their share of sins to account for collectively and it's about time that they came clean.The Jews that have been labeled by organized Jewery as "self hating Jews" have my highest respect and sympathy.In fact I will go so far as to say that if history fails to reflect the unforseen future of more Jewish percecutions the credit no doubt will belong to "self hating" Jews like Norman Finkelstein.

by robotthinker on Tue Nov 22, 05 12:26pm [+]

Hey Ken, I answered your question honestly, I believe it NEVER happened (that's my opinion) You're the one who then called me "stupid" and now the karma bully has resorted to giving me bad karma....a real tough guy! If you don't want people to answer your questions with an answer you might not like, DON'T ASK. Delusional_from_Dublin
by Guy_Cabbelero on Oct 29, 2005 1:32pm

Get a grip knob end...you been doing exactly the same to me..rating me down on karma while i ...a true Serviceman..not a wannabe who claims to be a marine..was away on a training exercise...keeping our skills n drills honed in. You are not only a hypocrite and two faced..but also a fucking LIAR. You are a disgrace to REAL servicemen..both British And American. Your not worth the breath it takes to slate your worthless behind. And as for saying to Ken "ohh oh come to NYC and..you have to rate me down on karma TOUGH GUY..im prettuy sure Ken would give you so many fucking combinations you'd think you were a safe ...twat..what a knob jo
ckey you really are.

by Brit_Airborne on Tue Jun 13, 06 6:10pm [+]

Looks like this ballot is being fiddlefaddled.

by cranky on Mon Jul 16, 07 7:40am [+]

Robot.. the "quotes" you attribute to Benjamin Franklin and others are frauds. They have been proven time and time again to be just that. However, they have much currency and get repeated constantly on the neo-Nazi websites you are so fond of visiting. It isn't hard to prove this is where you get them from. A simple search on Google will show this. Any non-racist site that discusses these quotes point out that they are known forgeries. Face it... you are a racist and an anti-Semite. Every time you post one of these bogus quotes I encourage everyone to look them up. Then they can easily see your thinly veiled white hood and Nazi armband.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Wed Jul 25, 07 9:03pm [+]