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I think most muslim women suffer from battered person syndrome. Speaking of muslim double standards, did you know the 9/11 hi-jackers often drank alcohol, bought lap dances at strip clubs and ate pork while in America? Voted : It's much more than a double standard Most Arabic and Muslim cultures consider women as property rather then individuals with basic human rights. In the Webster's dictionary the word wife is defined as Chattel property of the husband. As property, the men believe it's their obligation to exercise control over their family (wife and children). Why sons are not held to the same standard as a daughter would be the decision of the head of the house (the father). There are cases where sons have been murdered under the guise of family honor.
by passiveson
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Voted : The women want to leave the Muslim deadly religion. crazy world 'Speaking of muslim double standards, did you know the 9/11 hi-jackers often drank alcohol, bought lap dances at strip clubs and ate pork while in America? ' They did not represent true Islam! 
Again, we should not judge an entire culture because of the act of a few. Muslims are not Gods and as humans are expected to not be perfect. Who am I to judge a man for neither am I anymore a God then he?
by passiveson
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Actually we can judge and entire culture based on the acts of a few when the manual, or in this case the koran, to that culture entails crap like: I shall cast terror into the hearts of the infidels. Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers. Quran 8:12, "The Spoils," Dawood, p. 177 ------- Slay them wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you. Idolatry is worse than carnage. Quran 2:190-2:191, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 28 -------- When the sacred months are over slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. Quran 9:5; "Repentance," Dawood, p. 186 --------- Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate. Quran 9:73, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 198 ------ Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them. Know that God is with the righteous. Quran 9:123, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 206 -------- Garments of fire have been prepared for the unbelievers. Scalding water shall be poured upon their heads, melting their skins and that which is in their bellies. They shall be lashed with rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they try to escape from Hell, back they shall be dragged, and will be told: "Taste the torment of the Conflagration!" Quran 22:19-20, "The Pilgrimage," Dawood, p. 333 ---------- Those that deny Our revelations We will burn in fire. No sooner will their skins be consumed than We shall give them other skins, so that they may truly taste the scourge. God is mighty and wise. Quran 4:56, "Women," Dawood, p. 86 -------- When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly. Quran 47:4, "Muhammad," Dawood, p. 506 --------- Let not the unbelievers think that they will ever get away. They have not the power to do so. Muster against them all the men and cavalry at your command, so that you may strike terror into the enemy of God and your enemy... Quran 8:59-60, "The Spoils," Dawood, p. 183 -------- Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another. Whoever of you seeks their friendship shall become one of their number. God does not guide the wrong-doers. Quran 5:51, "The Table," Dawood, p. 116 ---------- Believers, know that the idolaters are unclean. Let them not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year is ended. Quran 9:28, "Repentance," Dawood, p. 190 ------------ The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn for ever in the fire of Hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. Quran 98:6, "The Proof," Dawood, p. 598 ------- Women are your fields: go, then, into your fields whence you please. Quran 2:223, "The Cow," Dawood, p. 34 ---------- Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and forsake them in beds apart, and beat them. Quran 4:34, "Women," Dawood, p. 83 ---------- A male shall inherit twice as much as a female. Quran 4:11, "Women," Dawood, p. 77 ---------- married women, except those whom you own as slaves. Quran 4:24, "Women," Dawood, p. 81 ----------- Voted : These killers hate their women and expect them to live like animals and when they won't, they die. To those of you who say that these animals "do not represent true Islam", my question is "Why don't other Muslims protest against it?" There's no public outrage, so we can only assume that they agree with it. The sword verses (Qouted above) pertain to foreign invaders and intended only in self defense. The following are primary and fundamental beliefs and teachings for Muslims. Hadith Hadith (Sayings) is a term used primarily for collections of sayings of Muhammad ibn Abdullah that have been collected as guidance for followers of the Muslim traditions. Even as the fingers of the two hands are equal, so are human beings equal to one another. No one has any right, nor any preference to claim over another. You are brothers. Final Sermon of Muhammad It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing. Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1011 Religion is very easy and whoever overburdens himself in his religion will not be able to continue in that way. So you should not be extremists, but try to be near to perfection and receive the good tidings that you will be rewarded. Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 38 " '...what is the best type of Jihad .' He answered: 'Speaking truth before a tyrannical ruler.' " Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:195 Quran “Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of your religion, and have not driven you out of your homes, that you show them kindness and bring them justice; surely Allah loves the doers of justice” (Quran 60:7) Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians...and (all) who believe in God and the last day and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." The Qur'an, 2:62 2:190 You may fight in the cause of GOD against those who attack you, but do not aggress. GOD does not love the aggressors. 2:192 If they refrain, then GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful. 2:193 You may also fight them to eliminate oppression, and to worship GOD freely. If they refrain, you shall not aggress; aggression is permitted only against the aggressors. 5:87 O you who believe, do not prohibit good things that are made lawful by GOD, and do not aggress; GOD dislikes the aggressors. 8:61 If they resort to peace, so shall you, and put your trust in GOD. He is the Hearer, the Omniscient. 4:90 ... if they leave you alone, refrain from fighting you, and offer you peace, then GOD gives you no excuse to fight them. 6:125. Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. 6:127. And do thou be patient, for thy patience is but from Allah. nor grieve over them: and distress not thyself because of their plots. "Say to the disbelievers (that is, atheists, or polytheists, namely those who reject God) "To you, your beliefs, to me, mine" (109:1-6)" There are many Quranic verses that explicitly restrict fighting to be in self defense: "Fight for the sake of God those who fight you” (Quran 2:190) “If they lean toward peace, then lean toward peace” (Quran 8:61) The Quran recognizes and excepts other faiths: “Do not argue with the People of the Book except in the nicest possible manner, except those of them who are oppressive, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our God and your God is one, and we submit to Him” (Quran 29:46). "...the Favor of Allah bestowed upon you when you were enemies, and how He united your hearts, so that by His Favor you became brothers." (Surah 3:103).
by passiveson
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'To those of you who say that these animals "do not represent true Islam", my question is "Why don't other Muslims protest against it?" There's no public outrage, so we can only assume that they agree with it.' I saw a few Facebook pages about the death of Osama and it was scary how many young muslims living in western countries sympathised with him. ^ Its scary ALL muslims consider a man who married and had sex with girls younger then 10 as a prophet. Doesn't matter what you can rip off of wikianswers to give a false assumption of islam being tolerant and peaceful passive, the fact of the matter is everything I quoted is in the koran. And just as society is only as strong as its weakest members, religions are only as peaceful as their most aggressive scripture. "...what you can rip off of wikianswers..." Oh, I see, what doesn't suit your hate filled propaganda campaign railing against Muslims is discounted. The US and Israel are preceived by Islam as foreign invaders in the middle east, and they're right, so the jihad according to the quran is justified. Now I don't support terrorism, or the killing of innocents, but unless one comprehends the motivations behind these extremist act, one cannot begin to understand what the driving force is or how to approach combatting it. We must view the purpose from the opposition's eyes and accept responsibility for our conduct that propagate the conflict in the first place. You speak of self defense, well aren't they simply defending their own land from invasion the same way we are, by taking the fight to them, by attacking them on their own soil? It's sad how people can twist their own actions to appear to be justified when in fact you are doing the same thing as the people you rally against.
by passiveson
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And, the fact of the matter is everything I quoted is in the quran also. The difference is, I recognize their reasoning and agree to some extent that they are fighting in defense of their land from foreign invasion. If you want to end the jihad get the fuck out of their land.
by passiveson
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Do yourself a favor passive and READ past the first line before you make up your half-mind. If you'd read my last comment in its entirety you would have seen my quote "just as society is only as strong as its weakest members, religions are only as peaceful as their most aggressive scripture." It ultimately doesn't matter when you say "doesn't the koran also say..." because it says what I said and therefore it can't be perceived as peaceful and tolerant by a reasonable individual. John Wayne Gacy was by all accounts an outgoing friendly family man and hard working business man; he was admired so much in his community that when first lady Rosalynn Carter visited in 1978, she met with and posed for a photograph with Gacy:  But then thirty three bodies were found under his house and he was charged and convicted on 33 counts of murder. So we remember him as one of the most notorious serial killers in American history. All the good he did counts for nothing, just as it does in the koran, when you leave a steaming stinking turd on humanity like gacy did and the koran does with its hate filled scripture. When debating the nature of islam, all that counts is the hatefulness and intolerance found in it I quoted. All that counts is the fact that its founder, muhammad, had sex with child brides as a middle aged man. ^ If you want to end the jihad get the fuck out of their land.
by passiveson
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^ I'm not in their land you stupid cunt. Fuck off Spleen, you bitch about muslims and Islamic terrorist but you can't deal with the fact thay we invaded their countrey and when they protest in violence you whine like a little bitch. It's people like you that are the problem because you don't accept responsibility for the transgressions you commit against other races, perceiving yourself as somekind of God by comparison. You're nothing but a murderous coward.
by passiveson
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^ You're a pathetic joke passiveson. I've seen you drive off users you disagree with on more than one occasion. But that's the problem you can't disagree; you always turn the debate into a personal flame war while pretending you speak for everyone. I've got news for you, you don't. You're a lone nut with the morals of a cunt. All you've done here is try to rationalize and justify extremism at its very worst, probably because you are an extremist. The taliban are the type of people you'd like to have a beer with. Last time I checked I didn't invade anyone and I was born well after Israel declared Independence out of what was the British Mandate for Palestine ceeded to the allies after the ottomans lost WWI. But what would you know anyways? By your syntax a dictionary is above your literacy level never mind grade 8 history. You can't even discern the difference between a protest and a riot in your last comment. But its not people like me who are the problem pASSive, its egotistical twats like you who create them to begin with. Now please, leave the big people table before you make anymore of a childish buffoon of yourself with your shameless copy and pastings and rudimentary perceptions of subject matter that will always remain way out of your league. Voted : It's much more than a double standard I heard that Muslim men paint the windows black where women are so the women cannot see out. I guess they realize they cannot actually blind them or they would not be able to see the cooking pot.
by forgetmenot
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"You're a pathetic joke passiveson. I've seen you drive off users you disagree with on more than one occasion. But that's the problem you can't disagree; you always turn the debateinto a personal flame warwhile pretending you speak for everyone." For the record, for all who followed this post, qouting Mr Spleen's first address to me: First offensive comment- "Doesn't matter what you can rip off of wikianswers to give a false assumption..." Next- "Do yourself a favor passive and READ past the first line before you make up your half-mind." Then- "I'm not in their land you stupid cunt." And- "...You're a pathetic joke passiveson....," And- "...You're a lone nut with the morals of a cunt...," And- "...you are an extremist. The taliban are the type of people you'd like to have a beer with..., ...its not people like me who are the problem pASSive, its egotistical twats like you who create them to begin with." Finally, "Now please, leave the big people table before you make anymore of a childish buffoon of yourself with your shameless copy and pastings and rudimentary perceptions of subject matter that will always remain way out of your league." So how is it I ...turn the debate into a personal flame war...?" Twist the truth as usual to suit your losing position, then lie to make the opposition out to be at fault. Typical of a bigotted propagandist speading hate and arrogance.
by passiveson
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^ Selective memory pASSive? The line "Doesn't matter what you can rip off of wikianswers" wasn't personal, it was a criticism of your tactics. You admit yourself you lifted the contents of your first comment off a private site. Don't like being criticized for plagiarizing, don't plagiarize, its that simple. So instead of giving your head a shake and apologizing to the users of this site for insulting their intellegence like that by trying to pass off other people's work as your own, you responded by trying to rationalize not only islam's right to discriminate against women, you try to justify islamic attacks on innocent civilians, summing it up with the abrasive comment: If you want to end the jihad get the fuck out of their land. by passiveson on Sun May 29, 11 12:45pm So once again I tried to explain logic and reason to you, but it fell on deaf ears, as it always does with you, just ask the myriad of users who you've alienated. Again, you responded with that disgusting comment: ^ If you want to end the jihad get the fuck out of their land. by passiveson on Sun May 29, 11 7:35pm Which proved to me that you have the moral values of a cunt, making you a cunt. And as if your response me calling you out for what you are wasn't warped and jagged enough: 89233 Appeal Mon May 30, 11 1:02am Received karma rating of : -5 from passiveson For the Ballot comment#1274800 @ Bestandworst.com. - Fuck off idiot 12.40427 -5 12.40427/196.75000 Take my comments out of context and fallaciously claiming I made comments I didn't make effort justifacation for the name calling, insults and your attempt to vilify me. Your extensive interpretation of my comments far exceed the scope of the context in which they were stated. Note, first off, I Voted It's much more than a double standard concerning the ballot question. I disagree with and take exception to your outragous precept that Islam (Muslims), inclusively, are blood thirsty terrorists hell bent on world domination. That's your subjective opinion drawn from, 1) a very narrow opinion (prejudice) of any religous beliefs or expression, especially when it pertains to the Islamic/Muslim culture, and, 2) because a small fraction of radical, anti-western Muslim extremists are psychotic religous fanatics that commit heinous murders in the name of Islam. However I know this is not the case. Many Muslims serve in the American Armed Forces fighting side by side with non Muslim servicemen and women in Iraq and Afghanistan today. Also, they are elected Congressmen, appointed as Judges and other positions in the Justice Department, they are elected or appointed to Federal and State Offices, as Mayors and City Councilman. Osama Bin Ladin, Al Qaeda, the Taliban and other individual terrorists do not speak anymore for these Muslim American Patriots then they do for Islam. You're subrogating 'Islam' to the tenets of oppressive, hardline theocracies and radical extremists with an equivical prejudice (hate for hate). This stigmatizing condemnation is counter productive and indeed unjustly victimizes millions of devout, law abiding, Muslims who are patriotic in service and duty to our country, who are empathetic to the victims of terrorist violence, and, who condemn the use of terrorism in the name of Islam. The bottom line is, your prejudicial viewpoints and opinions are egregiously misrepresented in facts and half truths that conclude with expressing your hate filled, discriminating and disparaging opinion. You're berating opposition with insults, hateful obscenities and deliberately mis-interpreting comments toand inferring your opposition possesses an extreme or unpopular view. These unfounded accusations, seering criticism and your condescending tone of belligerence serve to distract attention away from opposition evidence tending to weaking your position. These are the same tactics used by White Supremists, the KKK and the Third Reich of NAZI Germany to subdue the Jews. So are we all to jump on this band wagon and start arresting all the Amnerican Muslims working in and serving this Great Country?
by passiveson
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^ Doesn't matter if you disagree with it, you're wrong. I'm right, and that's all there is too it. You're in the small minority on the subject. I'm not prejuding -- hence your fallacious usage of the word "prejudice," -- I'm judging. I'm judging the merits of these people based on an ideology they have chosen to live by. They've chosen to live by the scripture I quoted, it doesn't matter if they've chosen to live by other benign ideals when they've chosen to live by the ones I quoted; religious values aren't compatible with those in a liberal democracy, hence the implementation of the separation of church and state. And I have said its only a minority of muslims who commit terrorist acts, but the majority of muslims do in part or completely sympathize with terrorists, because islam is a belief, and its an extreme belief founded by a murderer, polygamist and a child molester, muhammad. And going back to the days of muhammad, islam only survived and spread because it subjugated all who stood in its way through brute violence and oppression justified by the very scripture I quoted. I don't care how many muslims serve roles in society, they're unreaonable individuals for the sole fact that they're muslim. When you believe what muslims do you shouldn't be in government making life and death decisions, you definitely shouldn't have access to the most sophisticated and advanced weaponry in the world. And when you look at the muslim world "theocracies and radical extremists" is all muslims have to offer in terms of government. As for the rest of your warped and probably paraphrased rebuttal "You're berating opposition with insults, hateful obscenities and deliberately mis-interpreting comments toand inferring your opposition possesses an extreme or unpopular view. These unfounded accusations, seering criticism and your condescending tone of belligerence serve to distract attention away from opposition evidence tending to weaking your position" ^That sounds like a pretty good synopsis of your preceding comments. Voted : In the same way it's mostly christian women Men have always subjugated women. But religion allows for an excuse. It says more about the male species than it does about islam. Christianity has the same core values as islam. It believes in a god that subjugates women, homosexuals, non believers and people of other faith. It spreads by conquest like islam. It's violent few are not reviled by the many who share its key values. Mr Spleen you can't just point the finger at one religion when they are all very very similar. Unless of course you really think they actually were witches? ^ Never said I could, but this ballot is about islam, so today, I'm going after islam. ^ But by addressing it as a solely muslim issue you miss the fact that this is a religious device. You are supposed to be an atheist and therefore you shouldn't be biased against one religion or another. Or more to the point the ballot maker should have known better really. being a woman and all. Men have always tried to subjugate women. religion gives them an excuse. The depth of the atrocity is irrelevent. Christianity is not the reason we in the west look at the middle east in horror. We do because we see a part of the world that is living in the past. But that does not give us the right to judge them on the merits of their faith unless we can accept that we still have faith waiting round the corner to start another crusade.... It never ended. But sexism in religion never went away on any level. ..and that is the answer to the debate. It's not about islam it's about men controlling women and using religion (any will do really, but abes god is worst the one. Chop your son up indeed) Using islam as the main protagonist is irrelevent ^ It's really not an issue of religion that motivates my distaste for islam, its the subject of social progression. On the whole, a belief in spiritualism or in any religion limits social progression, it hinders intelligence because such a belief is simply a fallacy. That said some religions have evolved to a higher point compared to others and thus I have less criticism for those religions, that's not to say I don't have any criticism, but while Rome wasn't built in a day it wasn't sacked in a day either, and this will be the case when it comes to religion. Actually Rome was sacked in a day. several times. irrelevent but still.... Do you really think that religion will be removed from intelligent society? You who live in a country with 40% who believe in creationism!! A belief that permeates the upper echolons of power in your countries leadership. That would worry me more than a bunch of pissed off arabs with sticks, bombs and the odd out of date american weapons. ^ I live in Canada actually. A recent study suggested religion is going extinct here, as it is in the Czech Republic and Japan. However by 2030 the islamic population in Canada will have grown from 1% to 6%. I'm trying to prevent this while hastening the demise of religion in Canada at the same time. Here's a clue Mr_Spleen. The basic core of all modern society, including it's evolution to the present, is founded on faith based religous ideology. Our culture as it stands today is structured around religion. Marriage ceremony, funeral and burial ceremonies, architecture, academics and the principles of law all have their origin in religion. Sure, through out the milliniums religion has orchistrated some pretty horrific legacies, but what about the good it nurtured? What about the conscious drive of right and wrong that has embedded into the human spirit? Our feelings of guilt, compassion, friendship, love, and tolerance? A good leader leads by example. We move away from 'an eye for an eye' toward forgiveness because of religion. Of all the horrors terrorism brings into the world, one thing it has done shines through. The same is evident in Viet Nam. The war, in the end, brought Viet Nam into a free and democratic republic. Our intervention with the terrorist in the end will slowly re-educate them to see the truth and recognize that what they are inbred to know is false. Give them the chance to come into the light. Show them the light of love, not the bitter darkness of hate, unrelenting criticism and a tyranny of intolerance. You cite how intolerant they are but I hear the same degree of intolerance from you. Show them your way is different. Superior. More civilized. Because frankly, I don't see it in you.
by passiveson
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^ Passiveson, I'm following suit with Quirk in that I don't wish to engage in debate with you. You lack in understanding and when this soar spot of yours is hit upon by an informed contributor you lash out in personal attacks. You're a commodity the art of debate can do without.
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