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by keithsheen on Tue Oct 12, 04 7:10am
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if all cakes are made out of flour and eggs, why are there still flour and eggs? Lol
by Dingleberry on Tue Oct 12, 04 7:34am
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just some in a certain area go off on a genetic tangent. Very very gradually. by keithsheen on Oct 12, 2004 That doesn't work. The wider the gene pool the healthier the animal. Small groups that contain many genetic mutations would quickly become freaks and die out.
by cretin_slap on Tue Oct 12, 04 8:45am
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So the atheist have something to feel superior to!
by hieros_gamos on Tue Oct 12, 04 8:53am
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cretin_slap: Interesting! Never thought of that.
by hieros_gamos on Tue Oct 12, 04 9:00am
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As far as we know, the common ancestor of Humans and Chimps is extinct. Humans started evolving into different species too (races) but civilization halted the process and we are now mixing back into one race. This question stems from a fundamental misunderstanding of evolution theory. Both current monkey and ape species and man, as well as the extinct man species called Neanderthal, evolved from a common primate that has since become extinct. Cretin Slap, sorry but you are incorrect. When natural selection favors the genetic mutation it can actually flourish. We can see examples of this in antibiotic resistance where bacteria that had the random mutation to survive an antibiotic survive the treatment and then begin to reproduce again. Thus this once extremely rare mutation becomes quite common. In humans you can see this in the random mutation that kept the black plague bacteria, Yersina pestis, from entering the white blood cells, thus reducing or eliminating infection. Before the 1348 pandemic this mutation was very rare, but now it is estimated that more than 10% of current Europeans carry it. I'm descended from Irish people. Then why do the Irish still exist?
by Neal_Anderthal on Tue Oct 12, 04 10:52am
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We can see examples of this in antibiotic resistance where bacteria that had the random mutation to survive an antibiotic survive the treatment and then begin to reproduce again. The above proves nothing. It certainly does not prove that one species can change into another species. Genetic mutations cannot drive so-called evolution because one single genetic mutation will not benefit an animal without further sympathetic mutations to accommodate the original. For example if an animal gives birth to offspring that has a slightly bigger leg bone (only on one leg of course) then in order for it to have a survival advantage then the muscles, skin, veins and arteries would all have to change in order to accommodate the original. To suggest otherwise is stupid.
by cretin_slap on Tue Oct 12, 04 11:32am
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The gene that codes for your left femur is probably the same that codes for the one on the right. If this happened in a human it would just create a taller person. Since that growth is distributed over the course of their life, the muscles, skin, blood vessels, etc. would grow as they need to. The same thing happens when people lift weights. Probably eh? No wonder you're so sure of yourself. My example was supposed to make you see that single mutations alone cannot provide an individual animal with a survival advantage. Would you suggest that when an animal is born with a mutation that makes it's leg longer it automatically has it's other leg lengthened in order for it to be able to run in a straight line? Probably?
by cretin_slap on Tue Oct 12, 04 12:00pm
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But the process seems to be going in reverse now. 1st, Chimps evolved into Humans and then George Bush evolved back to Chimp.
by Cheeky_Monkey on Tue Oct 12, 04 12:19pm
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LOL cretin The efficiency with which our bodies operate would indicate that the development of arms, legs, nostils and everything else we have two of is controlled by the same genes, that is why we are symmetrical. This assumption is infinitely more logical than the assumption that we were created by some supernatural man in the sky. That belief is PROBABLY a load of crap. Are you even listening to yourself. First you admit that a random genetic change in a bacteria can allow it to better survive it its environment, a body with antibacterials. Which, it can because a small change in the proteins of the cell walls can keep certain antibacterials out of the cell. Then you say a genetic change can't give something a survival advantage. Maybe you need some other examples. First of all if you need an example of how a species can differentiate consider this: every domestic dog in existant are the same species, they can all intermate and produce fertile offspring. Thus a chihuahua and a St. Bernard are the same species. Each of these breeds had evolved their variable traits due to natural, or in the case of humans, unnatural stresses. Another famous example is the peppered moth found in England. Before the industrial revolution the gene alleles for the white phase were the most common. During the revolution the normally white tree barks of the trees were turned black due to the soot. The gene alleles for the black phenotype became more prominant since they were better camoflaged. Today, the levels of soot have fallen and as such the white phenotypes are once again becoming the most popular. In fact it doesnt even qualify as a theory . The POSTULATE of Evolution to serve the self deluded and alien. Is Irony the word? What do these "people" and their concrete and ashphalt got to do with nature? An 18th century Whitecoat dictating to a Cherokee or Tibetan , if he happens to get lost or lose his supplies ,,, oh, how embarrasing for him.
by bigmonkeynuts on Wed Oct 13, 04 3:56am
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Capitalist Imperialism = Darwinism i.e. Medical Darwinism and Biopsychiatry , Social Darwinism = Surivival of the UNFITTEST and extinction of intelligent life forms "... fierce attempts to intimidate and suppress legitimate dissent. Young scientists are threatened with deprivation of tenure. Others have seen a consistent pattern of answering scientific arguments with ad hominem attacks. In particular, the (PBS) series' attempt to stigmatize all critics --including scientists-- as religious 'creationists' is an excellent example of viewpoint discrimination."
by bigmonkeynuts on Wed Oct 13, 04 4:16am
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What about Adam and Eve?...who do you believe better, the church or science...this is too confusing :-( There are three main interpretations of Adam and Eve (Enki and Enlil ) goin round 1)A theory on socio-biology in human evolution or Plato's cave, ontogenetic or " developmental " arc of the devolution of consciousness leading to a phylogenetic arc, (authoritarian controls and a system of sanctions and punishments,military , industrial and medical establishments archies and labour , language etc leading to Nature, emancipation or Spirit or mind-essence. 2) Human beings (physical form) appear to be an interfered with hybrid slave race breeding on an isolated planet in a small galaxy. As such, the human race was once a source of labor for an extraterrestrial civilization and still remains a possession today. To keep control over its possession and to maintain Earth as something of a prison, that other civilization has bred a never-ending conflict between human beings, has promoted spiritual decay, and has erected on Earth conditions of unremitting physical hardship. This situation has existed for thousands of years and it continues today. (The Gods of Eden) 3) The (sub) stages of the " fall " (involution) from freedom into determinism as well as to demonstrate the progression of the early (substages of process. A pure and innocent Anthropos, Adam, located in the paradisical Garden of Eden with unlimited freedom, clearly represents lst substage " anthropotheic potential ". The creative extension of Eve from the rib of Adam, analogous to the linear charge or force of the " separated- but -attracted" subatomic proton and electron, symbolizes the 2nd substage " binding/desire principle ". The " Tree of Knowledge" of good and evil in the center of the Garden is analogous to the establishment in the atom of a nuclear center with a stable structure and represents the self-conscious knowledge and form of the 3rd substage " identity principle ". Complete banishment from the Garden (of freedom) into the ordinary physical world of constraint and law (determinism) where trial-and-error learning and responsibility of' self-initiated action takes place, with the accumulation and combination of facts, represents the physical solidity of the ordinary world of molecular combinations and obviously symbolizes the 4th substage "combination/ control principle ". Following this latter deterministic predicament, the New Testament introduces the " virgin birth " of the self- organizational anthropotheos (Christ) and the ascending substages leading to enlightenment (or anthropotheic realization).
by bigmonkeynuts on Wed Oct 13, 04 8:30am
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It is well known that every organic interaction-- that is, every change of orbit of every electron of every atom of every molecule of every cell of every tissue of every organism-- is ultimately due to the activational exchange of photons. Light "determines itself to make particles....." and matter " is condensed or frozen light." The emphasis that light is primary and time is derived from it and that, in itself, light has no time, no space, and no speed. Light (in its full sense) is one continuous, unbroken, undivided whole . Quantum theory says that the action in it is undivided as well. " Light is what enfolds all the universe. . . it's the potential for everything . . . the fundamental activity in which existence has its ground. . ."
by bigmonkeynuts on Wed Oct 13, 04 8:48am
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Euro That theory makes much more sense than some mythological father figure. (hm,Socio-biological usually is used a different way) "If an ant which has its crop full has been selfish enough to refuse feeding a comrade, it will be treated as an enemy. . . . And if an ant has not refused to feed another ant belonging to an enemy species, it will be treated by the kinsfolk of the latter as a friend." Anarchist communism /capitalism Nadia, i recommend you avail yourself of any work of the great Viktor Schauberger which gives the utter nonsense of darwinism , conventional physics and every other scientific and religious form of poppycock the boot in the bollocks it needs "Nature is not served by rigid laws, but by rhythmical, reciprocal processes. Nature uses none of the preconditions of the chemist or the physicist for the purposes of evolution. Nature excludes all fire, on principle, for purposes of growth; therefore all contemporary machines are unnatural and constructed according to false premises. Nature avails herself of the biodynamic form of motion through which the biological prerequisite for the emergence of life is provided. Its purpose is to ur-procreate 'higher' conditions of matter out of the originally inferior raw materials, which afford the evolutionally older, or the numerically greater rising generation, the possibility of a constant capacity to evolve, for without any growing and increasing reserves of energy there would be no evolution or development. This results first and foremost in the collapse of the so-called Law of the Conservation of Energy, and in further consequence the Law of Gravity, and all other dogmatic lose any rational or practical basis."
by bigmonkeynuts on Wed Oct 13, 04 4:34pm
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WoW...you are good :-)
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