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[+] ballot by Cathexis

In a recent ballot, I was surprised when someone asserted that I (Cathexis) "hated Republicans."

Another person responded as if that were a given and it should be obvious to me and anyone else.

I was perplexed. I wasn't aware of hating Republicans. In fact, I was pretty sure I didn't. lol

From my perspective, it seemed that:

* My frequent railing against Neo-Conservative actions had been generalized to be against all Conservative actions and policies.

* This, in turn, had been generalized to be my being against all Republican actions and policies.

* This, at last, had been generalized to my being against all people who held these beliefs/ preferences.

* And this disagreement had been interpretted as actual hatred.

Admittedly, this is just my guesswork as to what happened. But it makes statements like "You're either with us or against us" to be chilling in their ramifications. It also makes me realize that any attempt at discussion ro debate may be getting perceived as personal attacks.

Honestly, how do you think people who disagree with you (let's say consistently or perhaps all of the time) view you?

Hatred
As enemies
With intense dislike
With intense suspicion
As people they don't care to be around
Relatively neutrally, as people
With some degree of warmth
As ultimately all being on the same team
I don't care - REALLY!
As people I disagree with - nothing personal.*
Only the right-wing nutjobs hate me
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Now I may be a wee bit too simple for this Daddy/Cath Arguefest but Ill say this:Just because you think something *IS* what it is, doesn't mean it is....{crickets}pbthtt.

entered by : Qui_Qui
Submitted on : Feb 28,2005 5:40:05 pm

COMMENTS
I definitely don't "***HATE***" people who disagree with me. I hope people who disagree with me don't "***HATE***" me. Hate is too strong a word, and a disagreement about Bush should not cause two people to "***HATE***" each other.


I can only think of two people on b&w that I think actually hate me, ironically one for my defending someone and the other for being defended. I never thought people hated me for my opinions, I think some people left and right literally hate some of the others opinions, but not the person. I hope that is the case anyways
Some forget that even if we disagree,we have no choice but to share space on this planet.
People disagree all the time, its all part of human nature, however, it doesn't mean that one hates the other just because they share an opposite point of view. We disagree with loved ones, but we dont hate them, its the same in principal. If all the people of the world held the same views, life would be boring indeed, not to mention the fact that best and worst wouldnt exist lol, as there would be nothing to debate, and I would never have known all these wonderful people, that would be a great loss.
Geeeeez! Cathexis? I really don't think that Danny meant his comment about you "hating" Republicans literally but, maybe he did. Can you blame him? Instead of looking to blame others for the manner in which they view you (generalizing everything you say). Perhaps you might want to consider the body of evidence you are leaving behind for them to view and form their opinions? Ya think?

Your "surprise" at Danny's views of you (and other people's views as well - mine included) is just as baffling to me. We form our views of each other based on what we see you "doing" and NOT what we see you "saying". With that being said, go back and take a good objective look at your body of work (what you have been doing) and then HONESTY ask yourself what YOU would think of YOU! Really - Do it!

ANYONE reading your body of ballots and comments would naturally think you are a far-left liberal that *appears* to hate almost anything conservative. If you don't want to be viewed in that regard I would suggest a more evenhanded approach to your ballots and comments. JMHO Amigo!

AS is - You are only fooling those people that don't mind being fooled - YOUR friends!

With all due respect intended to all!

As far as this ballot is concerned. The only people that would say they *hate* people that disagree with them are either very immature or very partisan. Any reasonable person would never hate someone for having different views. Goofy ballot!
:(

I just hate you all 'cuz you're ugly.
Cathexis - We can't spend too much time on worrying about how others view us otherwise, we could ultimately jeopardize our own honest opinions over concerns on how we may be viewed. No real progress can come of that! My opinion? "Just be true to yourself and let the rest take care of itself."

Friction is required to make a knife sharp!

Mags - LOL - Me too!
Friction with the grain and with greater goals in mind do, indeed, sharpen the knife.

But heedless opposition and intent to block merely succeeds in blunting it.

Cath: *It also makes me realize that any attempt at discussion ro debate may be getting perceived as personal attacks.*

Especially, when ALL the people you take issue with are conservatives or Republicans! Imagine that?

People could easily look back at all my ballots and comments and conclude that I am 90% conservative and guess what? They would be absolutely right! LOL! I am (by far) more conservative than I am liberal. Nothing wrong with that, right? There also would be nothing wrong with people viewing me that way, just as (IMO) there is nothing wrong with people viewing YOU as liberal in your opinions and beliefs.

You are leaving a trail of evidence back to the Democratic Party and to those with liberal points of views that would make Hansel and Gretel proud and at the same time, not wanting to have your ballots and comments viewed as just a bit "crummy'! LOL! That dog don't hunt, my friend!

Cath: "D2B: I disagree. I believe that how people perceive each other frames how discussions and debates take place, as well as setting the tone for day-to-day interaction. We can remain "true to ourselves" and still be empathetic towards interactions with others."

You disagree with what? I completely agree with you here!

??????????

By "friction" I meant to say that we should welcome *differences* in us all and view them as chances to learn (sharpen the knife).

Cath: "not attacks on Conservatives or Republicans, in general)"

Dude - THAT is ALL they are! LMAO! C'mon! Virtually all of your ballots focus on Republicans or conservatives and THAT is exactly why they are viewed as "attacks" by many people (myself included). If you would occasionally make a ballot that was critical of a Democrat or liberal point of view I would come down on your side of this issue. However, you have not given me a single reason to view you as anything other than a "partisan" hack with some type of agenda to advance.

*I do not believe in becoming ABUSIVE when I disagree with a person's opinions. If someone hurls insults at me and calls me schoolyard names, that's the when they become someone I don't 'care to be around'.

Some of my best friends have totally different opinions to my own, both in real life (even in my family), and here on B&W. They are kind, have a sense of humor, and a lot of class. Those in the other category lack those virtues.

Cathexis - GREAT ballot, as usual.

They focus on particular groups ... not all. IMO, trying to generalize such statements to address all is an attempt to seek to defuse and diffuse responsibility.

BTW, the Liberal label was the topic for a different ballot.

There are elements within the Republican party who are extremist and/or corrupt. I attack the actions of these elements.

Unless every Republican is in on this, I suggest it is ridiculous to say that I "hate Republicans."

Cath: "You also show a bit of waffling there, my friend ... first assuring me that he wasn't serious, then asserting that he would be justified if he was serious. Better to pick a perspective and stick with it."

What I was attempted to say (perhaps poorly) was that "I" would not have used the word *hate* if I were him and was relatively sure he didn't do so seriously either. I also meant to say that I could understand his having come to feel that way (though I would NOT have) when ALL you ever do is attack what he feels is important and right.

My apologies if I appeared to justify his hating you. I disagree completely, my friend!

You know Cath - You make it damn hard to convince someone to come over and pick your apples when all your tree ever produces are oranges!

Cath: "Better to pick a perspective and stick with it."

You mean like Jerry Farewell does? That's OK Cath! If it's OK with you, I think I'll keep my mind open and willing to change when and if *new* information comes to light. For example: If YOU should suddenly begin acting like the *moderate* you sooooo want people to view you as being, I will keep my mind open to that remote possibility and be ready to give you full credit for having made that most welcomed change. OK?

I don't understand the sarcasm directed at Cathexis. I've always found him to be open-minded.

Note: I like both apples and oranges.

Cath: "Or ... better yet ... do a bit of introspection and see whether there may be some truth to this "goofy" ballot topic, after all."

IMHO - This "goofy" ballot is all about YOU, Cath! You became so concerned and insecure over how people were viewing you that you made this ballot in an effort to get positive affirmations from all your friends. You even went on to give YOUR opinions on why we were all wrong for assuming (generalizing) such bad things about you. What you were/are looking for is for people to get on here and tell you how wrong we were to view you in the manner described above. Why else would you have use the last ballot as an example? You could just as easily have asked the question and left off all the "bad" things people had said about YOU on the previous ballot. Good grief - Are you that insecure? No one has to make you look liberal, Cath! You do a great job of doing that all on your own!

Cath: not attacks on Conservatives or Republicans, in general)

D2B: Dude - THAT is ALL they are! LMAO! C'mon! Virtually all of your ballots focus on Republicans or conservatives and THAT is exactly why they are viewed as attacks by many people (myself included). If you would occasionally make a ballot that was critical of a Democrat or liberal point of view I would come down on your side of this issue.

Cx: Then you'd be guilty of partisanship -- making decisions based on who is involved rather than what is being done.

Quite simply: If you think an action I berate is justified, do come out and express a differing opinion.

If you think an action or situation I extoll is bad, speak out!

But if you categorize these topics by who is involved and base your reaction on that basis, then I suggest that it is not I who is being partisan.

Whew! **wipes brow**
If one considers "Truth" to be Truth based on which parties are involved, I suggest they have not grasped the essence of "Truth", even if they claim to be objective.
Concerned or insecure?

Well now you're just making things up.

I view it as a legitimate topic. Very key, in fact, since it seems to me that there are a lot of folks on the Right who love to take a Victim Mentality and view disagreement or questioning as attacks.

Note: Not all ... but a lot more than I'd have expected.

Oh, and my use of examples was an intent to clarify the topic.

I'm hoping you're not in the Psychology field ... this doesn't appear to be a forte.

We've put in a good 36" of column type on this, D2B, most of it fairly off-topic.

Why does this question bother you so?

Cath: "There are elements within the Republican party who are extremist and/or corrupt. I attack the actions of these elements."

Annnnnd of course there are NO such "elements" within the Democratic party, right?

You see Cath? The statement above is EXACTLY why people see you for what you are. You could have just as easily mentioned that BOTH parties have these elements to them, but you elected to only make that assertion towards the Republicans. Why would that be? Can I take a guess? IMHO - You didn't include the Democrat's "extremists and corrupt" elements because you NEVER wail on about them and it would make you appear to be just exactly what you are "biased and partisan! All of the above is JMHO of course!

Ha ... but only one party has had the power to act upon those. Only one set of extremists have successfully hijacked their party and come to power.
I'm amazed that you can be so focussed on "equal treatment on paper" that you woudl sacrifice practicality in what affects us in day-to-day matters.
Mojo - "I've always found him to be open-minded."

I would highly suggest that is because you almost always (if not always) agree with him. We all tend to feel that way about people of our own ilk. You can feel that way all you want Mojo but, his past ballots and comments do NOT make it appear that he is either open-minded, unbiased or fair in his views or criticisms of others. His views are clearly left in their scope. First - Why is that sooooo damn hard for people to admit? Secondly - What's wrong with that?

Um ... D2B ... I hesitate to bring this up, but ...

It seems to me that you're sort of painting yourself here as just the case you're accusing me of ... but on the Right.

*wear* a T shirt.
{sigh} I won't even bother correcting porkchop.

An obvious sign that it is time to move on.

Not gonna engage. Not gonna engage. I'm heading for the Veldt, at high speed. Suggest you do the same, Cathexis.
Nice try Cath: "If you think an action or situation I extoll is bad, speak out!"

ROTFLMAO! Ahhhhhhhh I think that is EXACTLY what I have been doing. Isn't it?

I'm simply holding YOUR feet to the fire. You want to be viewed as unbiased at the same time you are posting ballots and opinions that are nothing but biased! Give me/us a break!

I was simply saying that I would be more likely to view you as an unbiased person, if you gave me one single reason for doing so. I did NOT say that I would agree with any of your positions just because it was YOU. Obviously, I do NOT play that game or I would not have been on this Site debating you on just about everything you have put forth.

I find you arguments extremely biased, weak, lacking in common sense, full of intellectual "crap" and just plain self serving and partisan. How's that for speaking out?

On the other hand - I find you smart, eloquent, respectful in your responses and to be someone that is able to separate their politics from their personal feelings when dealing with people.

Gotta hit the road, my friend! Say "Hi!" to the DNC for me! ;)

Cath's version of the "truth": Although I only point out the demons of the conservatives and Republicans even though there are plenty of examples around where I could take issues with the Democrats/liberals I am still a moderate and unbiased in my arguments!" LMAO! Yeah right!?

Just pointing out the obvious, Cath! You are considered a fig tree because it's FIGS you are producing. And it's perfectly fair for those of us that happen to notice you are producing figs while claiming to be an orange tree, to point it out without YOU claiming that we are "partisan" because we've done so.

Have you ever read "The King Has No Clothes"? I guess you want us all to pretend to see clothes on you when you are clearly naked as hell, eh?

Sorry! I may have other "issues", but being blind is not one of them!

Cath: "Very key, in fact, since it seems to me that there are a lot of folks on the Right who love to take a Victim Mentality and view disagreement or questioning as attacks."

LOL! Of course, Cath! But NO ONE on the left that does that, right? You're proving my points for me! Thank you!

Here is what I believe the logic flaw in your reasoning is:

Your view of "unbiased": That someone gives equal time to prevailing Conservative or Liberal views ... no matter how far one or the other may have gone.

My view of unbiased: To go with what you believe is right, no matter what the label is.

If one "group" is getting more negative press, than maybe that is because I disagree with what they are doing rather than becaus eof their label.

Here is the difference: Hide the identities and my topics don't change. I believe yours would.

Cath: "Oh, and my use of examples was an intent to clarify the topic."

ROTFLMAO! Yeah right! It was just another unbiased coincidence that they were once again made against the right! LMAO!

That's rich! You really can't help yourself can you? Too funny!

Cath: "I'm hoping you're not in the Psychology field ... this doesn't appear to be a forte."

Careful Amigo. You look to be appearing to lose your "fairness" AND your sense of humor.

Now I may be a wee bit too simple for this Daddy/Cath Arguefest but Ill say this:Just because you think something *IS* what it is, doesn't mean it is....{crickets}pbthtt.
Cath: "Only one set of extremists have successfully hijacked their party and come to power."

Sorry Cath. I don't happen to feel hijacked at all! Matter-of-fact - I feel quite happy these days. Perhaps, that might just be another one of your personal opinions you are attempting to force upon the rest of us? Hmmmmmmm?

Like the Democrats/liberals haven't had their party hijacked by every single special interest group in the country!? Yeah right! Perhaps it just might account for the fact that 3 of the last 4 Presidents have been conservatives (counting what Clinton became it would have to be 4 of the last 4 LOL) and the liberals have lost control of governorships and both Houses now! People like you, Howard Dean, Al Gore, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, AL Sharpton and Jesse Jackson have succesfully split your party and it's costing you power in DC. You better hope that Hillary gets nominated in '08 because it's the ONLY chance the Democrats have of appealing to all the moderates in those red states you dislike so much!

See your true roots are coming to the surface now. This is good for you. They say coming out of the closet is a very liberating thing, Cath!

Cath; "I'm amazed that you can be so focussed on "equal treatment on paper" that you woudl sacrifice practicality in what affects us in day-to-day matters."

Careful my friend. You may be assuming too much! ;)

Qui Qui - LMAO!
See you gang! Great fun again.

Mojo - "Suggest you do the same, Cathexis."

No such suggestion for me? LOL! Where's the love? ;)

I'm surprise at how many people find this interesting.
To answer the ballot question: I would hope that no-one who disagrees with me would hate me, but the world is full of people of all types of persuasions, and this website is a microcosm of that. Most people I've found here are funny, considerate, challenging, interesting, or good... or a combination of all of these attributes, but there will always be the haters who live to try to wield something that mirrors their own disenchantment and misery. We can acknowledge it but we don't have to become infected.
by zig [+]

Sorry Zig! :( Archie Bunker? Yikes!
Remember that I was that way once (intolerant of any view other than my own), wave jauntily at them then walk on by.
This ballot gave me an idea for another related ballot about the ignorance of "hate" in our politics. If you get time please join me on ballot #68963:

I think we might be able to find common ground amongst reasonable people!? We'll see!? ;)

Im not sure if they do or not, I dont hate people I disagree with.
I just ate an apple. I am unsure if this apple was conservative, or liberal. I can say without a doubt that eating this apple was not politically correct, but I did it anyway. It was delicious.
one thing to disagree another to be hateful toward the person, calling them names and such, which so many on this site are so famous for doing.





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