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by Les6Hithe6Wins6Again on Thu Jun 30, 05 10:54pm
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You hold an American flag in Iran and you'll be killed. You hold the Iranian flag in the US you'll be arrested for some wild accusation that you're associated with Al-Qaeda or other Arab organizations.
by Liberal_Democrat on Thu Jun 30, 05 11:04pm
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I don't think this is just Iran. Hold an American flag up in Germany or France and there's still a good chance that you'll be harassed.
by Liberal_Democrat on Thu Jun 30, 05 11:05pm
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Now you know how it feels to be English!! Not to sure how many iranians would recognise the english flag but i know what they`d feel if they did. as for europe its always been like that. Germans and French wouldn't go as far as killing you. But hey, we all love the middle-east right. They are our peaceful friends.
by a_perfect_world on Fri Jul 01, 05 3:09am
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Well the obvious sometimes reveals truth that could not be explicated in other ways. Excellent.
by inter_regnum on Fri Jul 01, 05 3:22am
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You know, I can't identify an Iranian flag LD. You know why? I don't care about them. Maybe if we leave them alone they will leave us alone.
by inter_regnum on Fri Jul 01, 05 3:24am
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Yes, let's leave them alone. Like we left them alone after the first World Trade Center bombings in the 90's. Like we left them alone after the USS Cole was attacked. Like we left them alone after the first embassy was blown up, when the second embassy was blown up. Yes, I see your reasoning, leaving them alone REALLY works. Hopefully one day an American will hold up an Iranian flag in America and an Irainian will hold up the Stars and Stripes in Tehran and will say to each other......"remember all those nearsighted jerks"! Well, it's a thought and I can dream can't I?
by Guy_Cabbelero on Fri Jul 01, 05 11:24am
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"Yes, let's leave them alone. Like we left them alone after the first World Trade Center bombings in the 90's. Like we left them alone after the USS Cole was attacked. Like we left them alone after the first embassy was blown up, when the second embassy was blown up. Yes, I see your reasoning, leaving them alone REALLY works." Iran didn't have anything to do with any of those incidents (except the '79 emabassy seige). Maybe if you didn't refer to all Arabs as terrorists, you could easily be able to hold the American flag up in the middle east without being attacked. "Maybe if we leave them alone they will leave us alone." That's usually how it works. If America didn't intervene with Middle East politics then terrorism wouldn't be a problem.
by Liberal_Democrat on Fri Jul 01, 05 1:22pm
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Liberal_Democrat, we don't agree politically and this is why: People (Arabs/Persians/Muslims) in the Middle East are hostile to Israel. Israel is our ally. Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East. Israel is the only country in the Middle East where the citizens of the country have freedoms of religion&press&speech. Israel is the only place in the Middle East where Arabs/Muslims can protest without fear of arrest. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that respects human rights. Israel is the only country in the Middle East where an Arab can publish his "heresy" without fear of the death penalty. Israel is the only country in the Middle East where an Arab, or any other person, can convert to Christianity, Bhuddism, Hiduism, Animism, Satanworship, whatever without fear of being persecuted, and in all likelihood sentenced to death. Israel is the only country in the Middle East that has the structural elements that enable democratic societies to respect human rights: independent courts, the rule of law, a free press, a freely elected government, meaningful opposition parties, and real human rights organizations. I like freedom. I think that Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, Arabians, etc should have those freedoms too. I think that Arab/Muslim people are capable of liberal society/democracy. Don't you?
by inter_regnum on Sat Jul 02, 05 2:16am
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"(Arabs/Persians/Muslims) in the Middle East are hostile to Israel." As so is Israel to the Arabs. "Israel is our ally. False, Israel may be America's ally on paper but their actions barely show it. Same way Saudi Arabia is America's ally on paper but they barely show it. "Israel is the only country in the Middle East where the citizens of the country have freedoms of religion&press&speech." Like the American protestor who was run over by a bulldozer. Or the English journalist that was killed by an Israeli soldier. "Israel is the only place in the Middle East where Arabs/Muslims can protest without fear of arrest." Depends what you're protesting. "Israel is the only country in the Middle East that respects human rights." No, they don't. They have violated human rights laws on dozens of occasions. "I like freedom." Good for you. "I think that Egyptians, Syrians, Jordanians, Arabians, etc should have those freedoms too." Egyptians do have all those freedoms but why should it matter to you? They are Arabs, they might as well all be dead to you. What do ANY of the comments I've posted on this ballot have to do with Israel? What do any of the comments you've posted above have to do with this ballot? I guess that's the only defense Republicans can give when Arab countries and the US are mentioned.
by Liberal_Democrat on Sat Jul 02, 05 11:07pm
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^Completely devoid of any reason to respond.
by inter_regnum on Sun Jul 03, 05 3:48am
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"^Completely devoid of any reason to respond." Yes, I know you have no responses to any of my comments. You don't have to deny it by saying you have no reason to respond.
by Liberal_Democrat on Sun Jul 03, 05 2:51pm
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LD. Israel is our ally on more than paper. Israel is the only liberal democracy in the middle east. Your two examples don't disprove that. Israel is the only country in the middle east that respects human rights in head to head comparisons. If you think that Egypt is as respectful of human rights as Israel, then arguing with you isn't worth the time. Let me ask you LD: When is the last time that Egypt had a fair election? Or do you claim that they already do? I suppose that you will tell me that the Muslim Brotherhood agrees with you on your statement about the openness of the Egyptian system? Why has Mubarak not lifted state of emergency orders that have been in place for 30 years? I care about as much for Arabs as I do Israelis and that is what separates us. If the Israelis do something bad I will admit it. But you won't even acknowledge that Egypt has a repressive government that is far worse than Israel in a significant or meaningful way. It is you that would like to see an entire people dead. And those people are Israelis. Egypt and Israel have a peace treaty. Egypt recognizes Israel's right to exist. They are the only country in the Middle East that does. What your comments have to do with this ballot is that they are monumentally stupid and unsubstantiated. No one, except extreme boneheads would make statements like you did. No one really agrees with you. Well maybe Osama Bin Ladin and others of the extremist Islamic ilk. But to state with conviction that the Jews would be treated worse here than in the Middle East is outright stupid. that is why I initially didn't respond to your stupidity. I am not one of those who think if you don't agree with me you are wrong. so now, run along and try to present me as a right-wing, hoping the prophecy will be fulfilled in Israel stooge. You are the stooge. And you don't have a command of the subject matter. Either that, or you have bought wholesale into the rhetoric of the most dominant hatefule group in the world today: RADICAL ISLAMO-FASCISM.
by inter_regnum on Sun Jul 03, 05 6:52pm
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"LD. Israel is our ally on more than paper." Is that why they sell American war techs to China behind America's back? Is that why they spied on America? "Israel is the only liberal democracy in the middle east. Your two examples don't disprove that." I put up one example. "Israel is the only country in the middle east that respects human rights in head to head comparisons. If you think that Egypt is as respectful of human rights as Israel, then arguing with you isn't worth the time." You're trying to make Israel look like an angel. They aren't, they have violated human rights laws dozens of times taking that Democracy label away. But, that's fine. I would rather live in Israel than in any other Arab country. "Let me ask you LD: When is the last time that Egypt had a fair election?" I don't know? When's the last time America had a fair election? "Or do you claim that they already do?" I don't. "I suppose that you will tell me that the Muslim Brotherhood agrees with you on your statement about the openness of the Egyptian system?" I wouldn't know that either because I know no one from the Muslim Brotherhood. I've never even heard their thought about Egypt's openness. "Why has Mubarak not lifted state of emergency orders that have been in place for 30 years?" That's his politics, I wouldn't know. Why did George W. Bush say major combat operations in Iraq have ended when they haven't? That's politics, you're just biased when it comes to blaming people. I'm not saying that Egypt is a great place for human rights but compared to any other Arab country they're ideal. "I care about as much for Arabs as I do Israelis and that is what separates us." Explain to me how that seperates us? I care for both the Israelis and the Arabs. I don't care for their governments one bit. THAT'S WHAT SEPERATES US. "If the Israelis do something bad I will admit it." As so will I, same goes for Arabs. You don't see me condoning opressive regimes. "But you won't even acknowledge that Egypt has a repressive government that is far worse than Israel in a significant or meaningful way." Never did I say that Egypt and Israel are 100% equally democratic. I said that they are democratic in some ways. Same way France isn't 100% democratic since they don't allow religious headware in public. Does this mean that they aren't democratic at all? "It is you that would like to see an entire people dead. And those people are Israelis." You know that really hurts. That really does offend me and I'm not being sarcastic either. To accuse me of such thing is like accusing me of being a Nazi. Never have I had this stance but all I see it as is another cheap shot, below the belt by a desperate foolish man who has no other argument than "You're a Nazi", "You're a terrorist suck up". So it's really me who has no reason at all to respond to you. "Egypt and Israel have a peace treaty. Egypt recognizes Israel's right to exist. They are the only country in the Middle East that does." Good for them. "What your comments have to do with this ballot is that they are monumentally stupid and unsubstantiated." There goes your cheap shot again. You have no argument other than name calling and bad mouthing. Another sign that you are a weak fool desperate for attention. "No one, except extreme boneheads would make statements like you did." Here goes the name calling again...I can name several local and national politicians who have the same views as I do when it comes to Israel, but I guess since they disagree with you, they are boneheads too? "No one really agrees with you." Are you sure about that? "Well maybe Osama Bin Ladin and others of the extremist Islamic ilk." Blah, blah, blah... "But to state with conviction that the Jews would be treated worse here than in the Middle East is outright stupid." Maybe those words are too strong? Lets say they'd be better off in Israel than the US. "that is why I initially didn't respond to your stupidity." So you think that they'd be better off here than in Israel? And you have something to say about stupid comments. "I am not one of those who think if you don't agree with me you are wrong." I think you are. "so now, run along and try to present me as a right-wing, hoping the prophecy will be fulfilled in Israel stooge." Blah, blah, blah... "You are the stooge." You are a moron. RECAP: You accuse me of wanting to commit genocide against Jews; a comment that has killed off any respect I had toward you forever. Then you accuse me of supporting the political stances of extreme Jihadist/Islamist movements. Another very stupid comment by you. Then you accuse me of saying a load of things I never really said. You switch the words around to make it LOOK like I said it. Then you say that Israelis would be better in the US than in the middle east I must say that so far, after Jinn_The_Kafir, you might be the most absured person on this site.
by Liberal_Democrat on Sun Jul 03, 05 10:50pm
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I may've been wrong about Jews being more safer in Arab countries than the US but it still doesn't mean you have the right to label me a Nazi or Islamic fundamentalist.
by Liberal_Democrat on Mon Jul 04, 05 12:55am
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^I did neither.
by inter_regnum on Mon Jul 04, 05 2:01am
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"Is that why they sell American war techs to China behind America's back? Is that why they spied on America?" Get that from the "Elders of Zion" didn't you? "You're trying to make Israel look like an angel. They aren't, they have violated human rights laws dozens of times taking that Democracy label away. But, that's fine. I would rather live in Israel than in any other Arab country." I have no interest in making Israel look like an angel. Your denials of Arab repression don't lead one to think that you are taking an unbiased look at the facts though. I don't deny that Israel has committed civil and human rights violations. Those however do not "disqualify" a country from being a democracy though. And if they did, there would not be any democracies in the world. If your respect was something I valued then I would be hurt. But I don't value your respect. I assume you meant absurd when you said "absured". If my comments are absurd to you, then I have been succesful. I didn't label you a Nazi, didn't even use the words. I said that your comments would wholeheartedly be supported by those who are Islamo-Fascists. Big difference dummy.
by inter_regnum on Mon Jul 04, 05 2:09am
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"^I did neither." 'It is you that would like to see an entire people dead. And those people are Israelis. by inter_regnum on Jul 03, 2005' "Get that from the "Elders of Zion" didn't you?" No, I get it from the Pentagon and several US & UK newsstations. You must have been in a coma to miss out on it, it was on the news that entire week. Of course, Israel denied it. Israel has also been selling US secrets to China, that was on the news too. "I have no interest in making Israel look like an angel. Your denials of Arab repression don't lead one to think that you are taking an unbiased look at the facts though." My denials of Arab repression? Never said that, you're making things up again. Please do find a comment in the past where I denied Arab repression. I know you can't. "If your respect was something I valued then I would be hurt. But I don't value your respect." You had barely any to begin with. "I assume you meant absurd when you said "absured"." You've assumed right. "If my comments are absurd to you, then I have been succesful." I assume you meant successful when you said "succesful". Succesful isn't a word. If making me think your comment is absurd makes you successful, then you've been successful everytime when it comes to debating against the other side. "Big difference dummy." So there's a big difference between a Nazi and someone who wants all Jews dead? I think we all know who the dummy here is, dummy.
by Liberal_Democrat on Mon Jul 04, 05 4:30pm
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You start out by saying that Americans are clearly more intolerant than the people in the Middle East. This has no basis in fact. You said that if America didn't intervene in the Middle East then there wouldn't be a problem. Now that goes directly to our support of the country of Israel. You brought the subject up, but of course you want "deniability" so you say that the US shouldn't be involved in the Middle East. Well there is the little fact that Israel is in the Middle East, and I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but America has supported Israel through countless Presidents of various political stripes and numerous Congresses controlled by both parties. And the American people have time and time again given politicians the votes who demonstrate their willingness to support Israel. Now we have intervened in the Middle East in other ways. We give billions of dollars of aid to Egypt every year. I don't suppose that that is what you meant when you said we shouldn't intervene in the Middle East. The US is the world's most generous country in food aid to any country in the world that needs it. That includes Middle East and areas near. You say that terrorism wouldn't be a problem if we didn't intervene. And there might be some truth to that. Not how you think I would agree, but yes agree all the same. The US unfortunately has consistently propped up corrupt, illegitimate regimes in the Middle East. It is time that we link our support for these corrupt dictators and "kings" with meaningful domestic changes. We should require the Saudis for instance to respect human rights. We haven't done that in the past and we should move forward by first requiring that these rulers embrace the freedoms that Israel already has. It is so easy to make the moral equivalency arguments that you make. It shows that there is a whole generation of people out there that cannot distinguish between human rights abuses in a free society and human rights abuses in countries that are fear societies. There never seems to be a consideration for one minute from people like you that terrorism stems from other things that are not in any way involved with the US or its policies. Never will you even consider that terrorism stems from the Saudis who want to create external enemies to keep the internal enemies focused outward. Nor would you consider that those who preach Islamo-Fascism are doing so because there has never been a reformation of Islam. Reformations have occured in every other major religion on Earth. Now all adherents of the other major religions "own" their religions. Unlike the followers of Islam. (And I am not talking about how Islam is practiced in the West). The followers of Islam in the Middle East and Southeast Asia do not own their religion. The state of Islam is still mired in the middle ages. There is a difference between radical Islamo-Fascism and the fascism of the past. I am not equating the two, although you seem to be constitutionally incapable of understanding that.
by inter_regnum on Mon Jul 04, 05 5:02pm
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Just as you lost the argument with me about Tito, you are losing this one. You are the one who is bringing up irrelevant material in this discussion not me. When you set yourself up as an expert on things like this you will always lose. I know that you think that you are very clever. YOu porbably think that you are intelligent. But your arguments are not mature. Nor do you have a command of the subject matter. You remind me of the kids that spout their parents political and/or religious beliefs.
by inter_regnum on Mon Jul 04, 05 5:05pm
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"You start out by saying that Americans are clearly more intolerant than the people in the Middle East. This has no basis in fact." I did not put ALL Americans as the intolerant, I said that the religious fundamentalists and klansmen are the intolerant. AGAIN, YOU ARE WRONG. "You said that if America didn't intervene in the Middle East then there wouldn't be a problem." I stand by that comment. Now that goes directly to our support of the country of Israel. You brought the subject up, but of course you want "deniability" so you say that the US shouldn't be involved in the Middle East. Well there is the little fact that Israel is in the Middle East, and I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but America has supported Israel through countless Presidents of various political stripes and numerous Congresses controlled by both parties. And the American people have time and time again given politicians the votes who demonstrate their willingness to support Israel. "Now we have intervened in the Middle East in other ways. We give billions of dollars of aid to Egypt every year. I don't suppose that that is what you meant when you said we shouldn't intervene in the Middle East." When I said the US shouldn't intervene in the middle east at all, I meant that the US should end all communications with the middle east, illegalize immigration from there, end military operations there, and end economic trade there too. If ending economic trade means oil price triples, then I guess that's what will happen. America's international policy's problem is this: It labels people like Saddam as terrorists (and I agree he is) but at the same time it gives aid to bigger terrorists like the Crown Prince Abdullah. This will always give you mixed results. "The US unfortunately has consistently propped up corrupt, illegitimate regimes in the Middle East. It is time that we link our support for these corrupt dictators and "kings" with meaningful domestic changes. We should require the Saudis for instance to respect human rights. We haven't done that in the past and we should move forward by first requiring that these rulers embrace the freedoms that Israel already has." I agree with that but when George W. Bush goes to Saudi Arabia and tells the prince what a fine country he has then that's barly sending a message. In fact that makes George W. Bush a hypocrite. "It is so easy to make the moral equivalency arguments that you make. It shows that there is a whole generation of people out there that cannot distinguish between human rights abuses in a free society and human rights abuses in countries that are fear societies." You keep telling me that I can't tell the difference between Arab countries and Israel. You're wrong, I can but for whatever reason that message isn't getting through your brain (supposedly). "There never seems to be a consideration for one minute from people like you that terrorism stems from other things that are not in any way involved with the US or its policies." I never said that all terrorist groups are America's problem. When did I say that. The terrorist groups in Chechenya and Ireland aren't created by US international policies. SO NOT ALL TERRORIST GROUPS ARE AMERICA'S FAULT. In fact, vast majority aren't. "Never will you even consider that terrorism stems from the Saudis who want to create external enemies to keep the internal enemies focused outward. Nor would you consider that those who preach Islamo-Fascism are doing so because there has never been a reformation of Islam." So you're blaming things on Islam? "Reformations have occured in every other major religion on Earth. Now all adherents of the other major religions "own" their religions. Unlike the followers of Islam. (And I am not talking about how Islam is practiced in the West). The followers of Islam in the Middle East and Southeast Asia do not own their religion. The state of Islam is still mired in the middle ages." How has the Bible changed in the last 2000 years? It hasn't, the interpretations people make have. "There is a difference between radical Islamo-Fascism and the fascism of the past. I am not equating the two, although you seem to be constitutionally incapable of understanding that." I understand the religion better than you do. Unlike me, you haven't even opened the Quran.
by Liberal_Democrat on Tue Jul 05, 05 3:05pm
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"Just as you lost the argument with me about Tito, you are losing this one." Look at that, you're wrong again. You're really building up a record, rectum boy. "You are the one who is bringing up irrelevant material in this discussion not me." You're really on a roll. When will you say anything that has to do SOMETHING with the ballot? "When you set yourself up as an expert on things like this you will always lose." I never said I'm an expert on THIS subject. I'm not. So without suprise you're making things up again that I NEVER SAID. I said that I'm well read on Yugoslavia, I stand by that comment. "I know that you think that you are very clever. YOu porbably think that you are intelligent." Clever? Intelligent? You make me sound like I am. I never thought of myself to be extra intelligent or clever. I'm average, I hold that banner high. "But your arguments are not mature. Nor do you have a command of the subject matter. You remind me of the kids that spout their parents political and/or religious beliefs." You know something: Both of my parents are moderate conservatives. Both oppose gay marriage, both oppose abortion, and the only thing (politically) we have in common is that healthcare should be free. You should know a person for more than a month, in real life, before you talk about them and tell them things about themselves that you don't even know.
by Liberal_Democrat on Tue Jul 05, 05 3:22pm
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CORRECTION: No terrorist groups are America's fault. They are the fault of a few bad leaders.
by Liberal_Democrat on Tue Jul 05, 05 3:37pm
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"I would rather live in Israel than in any other Arab country." I take that back. I would live in neither since in Israel if you protest the government you have a good chance of being killed by a government agent.
by Liberal_Democrat on Tue Jul 05, 05 3:47pm
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MISSED ONE "Now that goes directly to our support of the country of Israel. You brought the subject up, but of course you want "deniability" so you say that the US shouldn't be involved in the Middle East. Well there is the little fact that Israel is in the Middle East," My plan would also mean that Israel would be ended connections with too. They actually had a spy in the US. Can you please tell me in your opinion what would happen if Iran or Syria spied on the US? ISRAEL IS NOT AMERICA'S FRIEND. They just do it for the money. "and I don't know if you have noticed this or not, but America has supported Israel through countless Presidents of various political stripes and numerous Congresses controlled by both parties. And the American people have time and time again given politicians the votes who demonstrate their willingness to support Israel." Very stupid comment. In case you didn't know, Geroge W. Bush won the 2004 US presidential election. George W. Bush SUPPORTS Saudi Arabia and the Saudi Kingdom. Does this mean that all the people who voted for Bush support Saudi Arabian politics? I hope not. Saudi Arabia and Israel for whatever reason play a very small role in the US when it comes to politicians campaigning. The average voting American doesn't care about them. They would but it's a topic barely ever covered by candidates. It's like global warming or animal abuse laws. No one cares about it because they don't know it. How many times was Saudi Arabia's role in terrorism mentioned in the media? NONE. How many times has it been mentioned in the campaigns by presidential candidates? NONE. How many times has Israel been mentioned in the presidential campaigns or even the debates? Once in the debates and none in the campaigns.
by Liberal_Democrat on Tue Jul 05, 05 5:54pm
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heehee, haha not laughing with you I am laughing at you.
by inter_regnum on Tue Jul 05, 05 6:24pm
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"heehee, haha not laughing with you I am laughing at you." Poor response as usual. If you don't want to argue this, just say so. You don't have to hide behind lame exuses like "heehee, haha not laughing with you I am laughing at you.".
by Liberal_Democrat on Tue Jul 05, 05 6:56pm
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It is not that I don't want to argue it with you It is just that you aren't making any points. You are simply a little boy without the info or the intelligence or the life experience to have an intelligent conversation with.
by inter_regnum on Sun Oct 02, 05 2:51pm
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