COMMENTS:
Can someone please respond to this ballot?
I have the popcorn all nice and warm...
Ken has never took his medication and that is why he keeps saying that 9/11 was an inside job.He and other conspiracy theorist make the most obsurd claims and present the weakest evidence possible.I want Ken to explain how thermite can cut side ways or why NYPD officers witnessed the trust failing inward before the collaspe.
This site is all about expressing your personal opinion and thats just what Ken is doing. Why is it that people who dont conform to the majority view are picked on and victimised????? We are all entitled to speak our minds, Ken should also be allowed that privilege so give him a break!!!!!!!
Paranoid obsessive behavior comes and goes with disturbed people. Take death for example.
By the way, have you seen these ballots? 39107, 70524, 35814, 16946, 22519, 23113, 78254, 66636, 47561, 45855, 45524, 45154, 44574, 41726, 23792, 35935,
One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."
Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.
Normally I don't even bother debunking this kind of junk, but the effect that this paranoid myth is beginning to have requires a little rational analysis, in order to consign it to the same rubbish bin as all such silly conspiracy theories.
These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush regime was caught unaware by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able to.
Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - which remains uninvestigated, the complicit behaviour of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours , crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.
The huge difficulties with such a stupid story force them to invent even more stupid stories to distract from its core silliness, and thus it has escalated into a mythic fantasy of truly gargantuan proportions.
It's difficult to apply rational analysis to such unmitigated stupidity, but that is the task which I take on in this article. However, it should be noted that one of the curious characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that they effortlessly change their so called evidence in response to each aspect which is debunked. As soon as one delusion is unmasked, they simply invent another to replace it, and deny that the first ever existed.
Eventually, when they have turned full circle through this endlessly changing fantasy fog, they then re-invent the original delusion and deny that you ever debunked it, thus beginning the circle once more. This technique is known as "the fruit loop" and saves the conspiracy theorist from ever having to see any of their ideas through to their (il)logical conclusions.
According to the practitioners of the fruit loop, 19 Arabs took over the 4 planes by subduing the passengers and crew through the use of guns, knives ,box cutters and gas, and then used electronic guidance systems which they had smuggled on board to fly the planes to their targets.
The suspension of disbelief required for this outrageous concoction is only for the hard core conspiracy theorist.
For a start, they conveniently skip over the awkward fact that there weren't any Arabs on the planes.
If there were, one must speculate that they somehow got on board without being filmed by any of the security cameras and without being registered on the passenger lists.
But the curly question of how they are supposed to have got on board is all too mundane for the exciting world of the conspiracy theorist.
With vague mumblings that they must have been using false ID ( but never specifying which IDs they are alleged to have used, or how these were traced to their real identities), they quickly bypass this problem, to relate exciting and sinister tales about how some of the fictitious fiends were actually searched before boarding because they looked suspicious.
However, as inevitably happens with any web of lies, this simply paints them into an even more difficult corner. How are they supposed to have got on board with all that stuff if they were searched ? And if they used gas in a confined space, they would have been affected themselves unless they also had masks in their luggage.
"Excuse me sir, why do you have a box cutter, a gun, a container of gas, a gas mask and an electronic guidance unit in your luggage?"
"A present for your grandmother? Very well sir, on you get."
"Very strange", thinks the security officer. "That's the fourth Arabic man without an Arabic name who just got on board with a knife, gun or box cutter and gas mask. And why does that security camera keep flicking off every time one these characters shows up? Must be one of those days I guess..."
Asking any of these basic questions to a conspiracy theorist is likely to cause a sudden leap to the claim that we know that they were on board because they left a credit card trail for the tickets they had purchased and cars they had rented. So if they used credit cards that identified them, how does that reconcile with the claim that they used false IDs to get on to the plane?
But by this time, the fruit loop is in full swing, as the conspiracy theorist tries to stay one jump ahead of this annoying and awkward rational analysis. They will point to the fact that the hijackers passports were allegedly found at the crash scenes. "So there!" they exalt triumphantly, their fanatical faces lighting up with that deranged look of one who has just a revelation of questionable sanity.
Hmm? So they got on board with false IDs but took their real passports with them? However, by this time the fruit loop has been completely circumnavigated, and the conspiracy theorist exclaims impatiently "Who said anything about false IDs? We know what seats they were sitting in! Their presence is well documented!" And so the whole loop starts again.
"Well, why aren't they on the passenger lists?"
"You numbskull ! They assumed the identities of other passengers!" And so on…
Finally, out of sheer fascination with this circular method of creative delusion, the rational sceptic will allow them to get away with this loop, in order to move on to the next question, and see what further delights await us in the unravelling of this marvellously stupid story.
"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? "
The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...
This is another favourite deductive method of the conspiracy theorist. The "improbability drive", in which they decide upon a conclusion without any evidence whatsoever to suggest it, and then speculate a series of wildly improbable events and unbelievable co-incidences to try to support it, shrugging off the implausibility of each event with the vague assertion that sometimes the impossible happens (just about all the time in their world).
There is a principle called "Occam's razor" which suggests that in the absence of evidence to the contrary, the simplest explanation is most likely to be correct.....
....Continued on my homepage.
Thats the last straw -
I was going to just ignore you and give you my free speech but you had no right to give me that karma and you know it. Your going down you and your whole conspiracy theory shit. I may have been a good friend to you but I’m a even worse foe.
seon (bestandworst.com) on 3:34am Aug 07, 2006 | RESPOND | ZAP
I'm shi**ing myself lol! (o:
Yes paranoia makes people obsessively say things out of panic.
I have no respect for your opinion, nobody does in fact.
You are a hate mongering racist Jinn, deal with it. (o:
Why don't you answer my question Ken how do you explain eyewitness accounts of the Trust failing?Were the officers apart of the conspiracy too?
Psychosis is the fundamental derangement of the mind (as in schizophrenia) characterized by defective or lost contact with reality especially as evidenced by delusions, hallucinations, and disorganized speech and behavior.
Psychological tests on patients with psychosis prove that they are lacking a variety of mental functions, such as logic and reasoning, basic comprehension, and judgment.
Paranoid obsessive behavior comes and goes with disturbed people. Take death for example.
By the way, have you seen these ballots? 39107, 70524, 35814, 16946, 22519, 23113, 78254, 66636, 47561, 45855, 45524, 45154, 44574, 41726, 23792, 35935
What's a 'trust'
Corrupt???
- you don't even know what you are talking about!
I presume you are referring to a 'truss' plural 'trusses'.
You are talking complete thicko shill ballsology again - I even had to help you with your nonsense because know neither how to pronounce or spell the key words in your argument! DUH!
How embarrassing for you.
The trusses are not visible from the outside of the building for a start and anyone one who could have possibly viewed them failing which of course they didn't as the already nearly out fires were nowhere near hot enough to even soften them - would have had to have been killed for obvious reasons.
Countless firefighters heard explosions, they are used to these situations and know the difference between certain sounds because of their experience.
Why aren't you quoting them? Couldn't spell the words maybe?
Combine their statements with the hundreds of others and it's a no brainer, explosives where present.
Watch 9/11 Revisited to hear the media reporting about the explosives as well.
ht tp:// video.google .com/videoplay? docid=1951 610169 657809939
Firefighters, police officers, paramedics, victims which escaped and many others know what they heard, deny it if you want.
I will take these eyewitness accounts any day.
What about those eyewitnesses Corrupt the truth? they didn't exist did they not?
I have no respect for your opinion, nobody does in fact.
You are a hate mongering racist Jinn, deal with it. (o:
by Ken_from_Dublin on Aug 07, 2006 1:56pm
Ken. Some people don't know the meaning of the word racism. Racists spread lies, untruths and unfounded stories and myths about other races. When I speak about Islam, can you prove that I have met this criteria? Can you point out any lies I have said about Islam?
As you do with your conspiracy nonsense, you have again made an erroneous assumtion without factual proof. Do you even know what race or ethnic backgound I come from? No you do not.
My beef is with the ideology of Islam, not Muslims. Islam is a doctrine of hate. And since I am against hate I am against Islam. I can respect the right of someone to call themselves a Nazi, but I will speak against Nazism and its doctrine of hate. Does that make me a racist?
Your problem with me has nothing to do with what I say about Islam. Your comments are merely a red-herring. What you don't like about me is that you know I can see through your tinfoil hat nonsense, and you don't know how to deal with me, except to call me a racist.
By the way, your conspiracy theory is also a doctrine of hate. So don't you think that I'm going anywhere.
"By the way, your conspiracy theory is also a doctrine of hate. So don't you think that I'm going anywhere."
by Jinn_the_Kafir on Aug 07, 2006 3:34pm
Thanks Jinn for that last nonsense sentence that speaks for itself -and you're right I don't think that you're going anywhere. (o:
(least of all with your garbage arguments)
What's a 'trust' Corrupt???
- you don't even know what you are talking about!
I presume you are referring to a 'truss' plural 'trusses'.
You are talking complete thicko shill ballsology again - I even had to help you with your nonsense because you don't know how to pronounce or spell the key words in your argument! DUH!
How embarrassing for you.
The trusses are not visible from the outside of the building for a start and anyone one who could have possibly viewed them failing which of course they didn't as the already nearly out fires were nowhere near hot enough to even soften them - would have had to have been killed for obvious reasons.
Countless firefighters heard explosions, they are used to these situations and know the difference between certain sounds because of their experience.
Why aren't you quoting them? Couldn't spell the words maybe?
Combine their statements with the hundreds of others and it's a no brainer, explosives where present.
Watch 9/11 Revisited to hear the media reporting about the explosives as well.
ht tp:// video.google .com/videoplay? docid=1951 610169 657809939
Firefighters, police officers, paramedics, victims which escaped and many others know what they heard, deny it if you want.
I will take these eyewitness accounts any day.
What about those eyewitnesses Corrupt the truth? they didn't exist did they not?
I quoted them in a another ballot were I was arguing with you however I will show you the quote again.
"In the case of the north tower,police chopper pilots reported seeing the warning signs-an inward bowing of the buildings facade-at least eight minutes before it collaspe at 10:29 am". New York Daily News,Paul Shin,6/19/2004.Now explain how these men saw a bowing of the buildings facade before the collaspe if the building was borought down by explosives.
'Trust' me Corrupt your talking abstract ballsology again -
explain away the loud explosions -
which EVERYONE who was in the vicinity reported hearing - explain those away - and which would have been responsible for any number of deformities in the buildings facade -including a bowing - as the building's core was eviscerated by the said same internal explosions.
No more mention of the word 'truss' Corrupt I see? - you should try -at least now since I taught you how to spell the word.
The so called explosions that the eye witnesses heard were probably caused by falling elevators and objects that were bursting because of the fires that spread through the buildings.
The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shaft at the North Towers's core,creating a conduit for burning jetfuel-- and fiery destruction throughtout the building."It's very hard to document where the fuel went,"says Forman Williams,a NIST adviser and a combustion expert,"but if atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source,it'll go off."
Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator system and caused extensive damage to the lobbies.NIST heard first person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down",to the ground floor."The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died."Says James Quinitiere,an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and NIST adviser.
These damn comments are too long and boring. I think you both need to take your Lithium and shut the fuck up.
"By the way, your conspiracy theory is also a doctrine of hate. So don't you think that I'm going anywhere."
Jinn you may be a Zionist supporter but you are dead right. Look at the comment ken gave me bad karma for: Fiddle you have a point. One could say that Bush didn’t let the democrats read the patriot act before voting but then congress never reads the bills they vote on. If you cant blame Bush who can you blame? Not being a conspiracy theorist is a lot harder cause it was so easy to blame secret societies and stuff. Now I have to try to focus on the facts. Compare this to: Lol ken what have you been smoking?
This conversation is real fiddle can vouch for that.
Fiddle in case your wondering why I gave up on the conspiracy theories, look at ken. Nuff said.
That comment is an actual attack on him and would have deserved karma. Notice how he only gave bad karma for the pro Bush comment. This proves that he is a Bush hater and goes around giving bad karma to anyone who posts pro Bush comments.
Oh and Ken I’m not calling you a kook because of the 911 rubbish you post. But its because you are suspicious of anyone who disagrees with you. I sincerely believed bush was involved in 911 but when I disagree with one of your kooky theories I work for the pentagon.
by seon on Tue Aug 08, 06 12:00am
[+]
Total balloxology again Corrupt - these surviving firemen and medics knew what they heard - they described them as distinct explosions going off, and audio and seismic data backs them up.
There is also video of a fireman describing how the towers went straight down like a controlled demolition.
Another fireman radioed down from the 77th floor -(in the court order released audio tapes, because the US PNAC government didn't want the public to hear them) - that there were only two small fires that were easy to contain and that he only need two water lines to extinguish them!
(These are supposed to be infernos that reached temperatures hot enough to melt steel!)
Seconds later the detonations went off and this hero fireman's life was snuffed out by PNAC traitors along with thousands more innocents.
Ken is this the quote you're refering to?
"I saw a flash flash flash the lower level of the building.You know like when they demolish a building"-- Assistant Fire Commissioner Stephen Gregory.
No, it wasn’t that quote, though I am aware of it, it was this one I was referring to;
FDNY Captain Dennis Tardio:
"I hear an explosion and I look up. It is as if the building is being imploded, from the top floor down, one after another, boom, boom, boom."
Here are some other quotes;
Chief Frank Cruthers:
“There was what appeared to be at first an explosion. It appeared at the very top, simultaneously from all four sides, materials shot out horizontally. And then there seemed to be a momentary delay before you could see the beginning of the collapse."
Wall Street Journal reporter John Bussey:
“I . . . looked up out of the office window to see what seemed like perfectly synchronized explosions coming from each floor. . . . One after the other, from top to bottom, with a fraction of a second between, the floors blew to pieces.”
Another Wall Street Journal reporter:
‘My God, they’re going to bring the building down.’ And they, whoever they are, HAD SET CHARGES. . . . I saw the explosions.”
Beth Fertig of WNYC Radio:
“It just descended like a timed explosion-like when they are deliberately bringing a building down. . . . It was coming down so perfectly that in one part of my brain I was thinking...They got everyone out, and they're bringing the building down because they have to.'”
Teresa Veliz:
“There were explosions going off everywhere. I was convinced that there were bombs planted all over the place and someone was sitting at a control panel pushing detonator buttons. . . . There was another explosion. And another. I didn't know where to run."
Steve Evans:
“I was at the base of the second tower . . . that was hit. . . . There was an explosion. . . . The base of the building shook. . . . there was a series of explosions.”
Thomas Turilli:
“...it almost sounded like bombs going off, like boom, boom, boom, like seven or eight."
Craig Carlsen:
“...heard explosions coming from building two, the south tower. It seemed like it took forever, but there were about ten explosions. . . . We then realized the building started to come down.”
Edward Cachia:
“As my officer and I were looking at the south tower, it just gave. It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit. . . . we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation, explosives, because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.”
Rumsfeld - interviewed by Lyric Wallwork Winik, Parade Magazine Friday, Oct. 12, 2001.
"Here we're talking about plastic knives and using an American Airlines flight filled with our citizens, and the missile to damage this building and similar (inaudible) that damaged the World Trade Center."
Timothy Burke: “...the building popped, lower than the fire...”
Assistant Commissioner Stephen Gregory:
“I thought . . . before . . . came down, that I saw low-level flashes. . . .
Lieutenant Evangelista . . . asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I . . . saw a flash flash flash . . . the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.”
Captain Karin Deshore:
“Somewhere around the middle of the World Trade Center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash.”...“Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building."
Firefighter Richard Banaciski:
“...there was just an explosion. It seemed like on television they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was going all the way around like a belt, all these explosions.”
Deputy Commissioner Thomas Fitzpatrick:
"We looked up at the . . . . All we saw was a puff of smoke coming from about 2 thirds of the way up . . . . It looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building. . . . My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV."
Captain Jay Swithers:
“I took a quick glance at the building and while I didn't see it falling, I saw a large section of it blasting out, which led me to believe it was just an explosion.”
Battalion Chief Brian Dixon:
“I was . . . hearing a noise and looking up. . . . the lowest floor of fire in the south tower actually looked like someone had planted explosives around it because . . . everything blew out on the one floor. I thought, geez, this looks like an explosion up there, it blew out."
Firefighter Stephen Viola: “You heard like loud booms . . . "
Battalion Chief Dominick DeRubbio: “It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion."
Firefighter Kenneth Rogers:
"here was an explosion in the south tower. . . . I kept watching. Floor after floor after floor. One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93."
Auxiliary Lieutenant Fireman Paul Isaac:
“...there were definitely bombs in those buildings...” Isaac added: “...many other firemen know there were bombs in the buildings, but they’re afraid for their jobs to admit it because the ‘higher-ups’ forbid discussion of this fact.”
The 9-11 Commission of pure farce:
William Rodriguez: "I met with the 9/11 Commission behind closed doors and they essentially discounted everything I said regarding the use of explosives to bring down the north tower.”...“I contacted NIST . . . four times without a response. Finally, I asked them before they came up with their conclusion . . . if they ever considered my statements or the statements of any of the other survivors who heard the explosions. They just stared at me with blank faces.”
Firefighter Louie Cacchioli:
“I felt like I was being put on trial in a court room” .... “They were trying to twist my words and make the story fit only what they wanted to hear. All I wanted to do was tell the truth and when they wouldn’t let me do that, I walked out.
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