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WHY DO GROUPS EXPECT TO BE PAID FOR PAST WRONGS DONE TO THEM?

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WHY DO GROUPS EXPECT TO BE PAID FOR PAST WRONGS DONE TO THEM?


[+] serious ballot by jappy
ACTIVE Wed Aug 09, 06 - Mon May 04, 09

Take American Indians for example, there are some who want reparations for something THEY DID to other tribes hundreds of years before it happened to them. I have no problem with the betterment of PEOPLE, I do have a problem with those who seem to look for any excuse to blame others and expect to be paid for it in return.

If a tribal guy who was stripped of his wealth couple of hundred years ago is compensated for, then what about the folks who were driven out of Europe in the 17th century, and who took shelter? What about the wealth plundered from Africa and India, that made the 'queen' rich? Should we give our gold and all back to those people?

Where do you draw the line, when do you get to a point and say: "You know, enough is enough, take care of yourself, get an education, and do not blame others for what they themselves did not do to you."

Do you also question the idea of reparations for wrongdoings literally done generations ago?

Yes, I find this to be a faulty line of thought
No, I have no problem with it

Ballot #100232 : SEE RESULTS

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COMMENTS:
This isn't to say that I fault a group who was wronged 'last year' by someone else, but look at Katrina for example. There is a reason that insurance is available for something like that. You can't blame that on any single person or group of people because it was a natural disaster unlike anything we've had happen in the United States.

But that being said, you still have people laying out blame, and will have people here in the comments also trying to lay out blame, which will be very unfortunate.

The other really disgusting fallout coming from Katrina is the new bill going thru Congress that will try and take away nearly all the control for states to decide in what way their national guard is going to be used, which would be a horrible debacle in the long run, you will see the National Guard being abused for highly suspect situations should this happen, where as now the governors have some power to limit the federal government from doing that.
by jappy on Wed Aug 09, 06 7:31am [+]

I believe in the cases of systemic victimization, to not seek some means to address the situation merely solidifies the relative positions of the predator and the victims.

To just say 'Tough luck. Suck it up and be happy with where you've been stuck' tends to implicitly tolerate (and thus encourage) more predation, IMO.
by Cathexis on Wed Aug 09, 06 7:33am [+]

No group is free from victimization if you care to research it far enough. And no group is exactly squeaky clean either.

You can't undo the past, by well wishing, and certainly not by punishing the criminals descendents years after the fact to reward people who were never wronged.

For instance, Adolph Hitler got off for his crimes right? Would it be right to track down his descendents and force them to repay the relatives of his victims? No? THat seems absurd doesn't it? Well isn't that like saying 'tough luck, suck it up and be happy' and implies a tolerance for such behavior, which of course encourages more. Certainly you aren't in favor of genocide are you?
by herzog on Wed Aug 09, 06 7:40am [+]

I understand what you are saying, Cathexis, but don't you have a problem with current generations trying to cash in on victimizations that were not even done to them?

Also, as herzog pointed out, where would you stop? Which group would be told "okay, enough is enough" considering that, as he pointed out, nearly everyone can find some sort of victimization in their past at one time or another?
by jappy on Wed Aug 09, 06 7:56am [+]

I don't believe that reparations, say cash payments, to ancestors of people who were victimized is the answer. If there is an obvious wrong, then make it right. But reparations to a race is a little too nebulous for me. And then you might ask, why this generation? Why not reparations for every generation to follow?

I am okay with reparations to the families of the Japanese internment camps. There was a specific injustice, made good to the families of those directly affected.

But if reparations are accepted as a general principle, as Jappy said, "where would you stop?

Example: One B&W users family came to America right after World War II, after they had been detered from slaughtering Jews. Should that individual have to write out a check to FiddleFaddle, because he's Jewish?
by cranky on Wed Aug 09, 06 8:56am [+]

oooh cracky is Jew-baiting again. I wonder why he does that?? MAG_afro

Being half Native American, perhaps I can offer a bit of a perspective here. While I certainly do not speak for all Native Americans, my opinion is:

1. Reparations is a non-starter, it will only result in animosity.
2. Where possible, artifacts and other items that were stolen should be returned to the tribe.
3. Returning all the land that was stolen is impossible.
4. Tribal sovereignty over the reservations should be fully respected - ALWAYS. It often isn't and this is wrong.
5. With any group that has been blatantly discriminated against or persecuted like Native American or blacks, extra effort should be made to ensure these groups are successful.
6. As sort of a follow-on to item 2, Native American burial grounds or holy sites should not be disturbed under any circumstance unless this is explicitly authorized by the relevant tribe. Even if this tribe no longer exists, related tribes should have a say on it. Native Americans are going around and digging up white American grave sites and opening them for exhibition and viewing by tourists and neither should non Native Americans.

I hope this helps.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Wed Aug 09, 06 9:59am [+]

jappy: Oh yes, I freely concede your point. I'm not convinced that a pay-out to present generation really does anything to redress the original problem. IMO, it merely 'enables' the status quo for a generation or less -- until the next generation complains that they didn't benefit from any redress.
by Cathexis on Wed Aug 09, 06 6:10pm [+]

Conversely, I don't agree that the 'shut up and take it' approach is good, either.

The best solution ... not sure. A systemic problem caused it, I would think a systemic solution would be required.
by Cathexis on Wed Aug 09, 06 6:11pm [+]

Fiddle:

Isn't it a bit hypocritical for you to hide the fact that you are Jewish, while at the same time spamming the B&W ballots with your endless pro-Israel posts?

What have you got to hide?
by cranky on Thu Aug 10, 06 11:47am [+]

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