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COMMENTS:
Yep, there haven't been a whole lot of atheist suicide bombers.
^Good point!
Not religion itself, more a fanatical misrepresentation of a religion.
I agree, Islam is a misrepresentaion of a religion. More like a cult.
Voted : Yes.
I don't think that's the way minni intended it, and you probably know it. Islam is as good a religion as any other, but, like most, when twisted by extremists becomes a dangerous force to be reckoned with.
^Yes, I once thought that to. Then I read and studied the Quran, as well as the hadith and sunnah. Try it some time. Do you like horror?
Books of faith are probably some of the most misineterpreted books ever. Just because you take one passage to mean something doesn't mean others take it to mean something else.
Yes ofcourse religion is the cause of Al Qaeda's global terrorism one of their stated goals is to drive the infadels out of the holy lands of Islam.That being said I don't think that Islam itself is a dangerous doctrine or one that excite's violence.
If Islam isn't rotten to the core, then why don't the "good Muslims" protest against the bad ones? Silence = Agreement
That and the fact that we've had troops and people all over the Middle East since the 80s/90s. We (Americans/zionists/western civilizations) are seen as invaders, just like the soviets were.
I'm afraid that's become much more accurate since our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Bostonian, there have been protests, just not in the hundreds of thousands. I think perhaps part of the problem is that many people who practice Islam are living in countries that would torture and/or kill them if they spoke out.
-how many people have there been in THIS country protesting against what is happening over there, when more than 50% of the population disapproves?
{"Books of faith are probably some of the most misineterpreted books ever. Just because you take one passage to mean something doesn't mean others take it to mean something else."
by himself809 on Tue Aug 22, 06 6:39pm}
I'm glad you said that. This is exactly why these books are dangerous to humanity. This is exactly why these books are not from any god.
Of course the apologists do not realize that what they say is apostasy. The Quran which contains the words of God (Allah), repeatedly claims to be a "clear book" (Q.5:15) "easy to understand" (Q.44:58, 54:22, 54:32, 54:40), "explained in detail" (Q.6:114), "conveyed clearly", (Q.5:16, 10:15) and with "no doubt" in it (Q.2:1). So you claim Muslims are misinterpreting Allah's teachings, and confusing their context and meaning? Was Allah a complete idiot or was he a sick practical joker?
If people believe Muslims quote the Quran out of its correct context, then isn't up to the Muslims to tell us what the correct contexts of those verses are? And when do we know they are correct or telling us the truth, because they say so? In jihad Muslims are permitted to lie to infidels.
Is it good to be able to interpret a book of guidance that claims to be from God in different ways? What is the purpose of a book of guidance? Isn’t it to guide us definitely and without error? Divine books from God are supposed to be infallible roadmaps for believers. What if I gave you a map, and a copy of the same map to someone else, and that map led you both to different locations when your instructions were to arrive at the same location. That map would be of no use to anyone! If people had to interpret it according to their own understanding, the map has failed to do what it claims. It should be disgarded because it is a danger to others that might use it. Therefore it is true that each person can find in Quran something that would validate his own needs and wants. If so, then this is not the "miracle" of Quran but is actually its biggest flaw.
Did you know that the term 'al-qaeda' was made up by the FBI?
This compiled from the BBC page on their great documentary, The Power of Nightmares:
"In the past our politicians offered us dreams of a better world. Now they promise to protect us from nightmares.
The most frightening of these is the threat of an international terror network. But just as the dreams were not true, neither are these nightmares.
In a new BBC series, the Power of Nightmares explores how the idea that we are threatened by a hidden and organised terrorist network is an illusion.
It is a myth that has spread unquestioned through politics, the security services and the international media.
Those with the darkest fears became the most powerful.
Together they invented today's nightmare vision of an organised terror network.
A fantasy that politicians then found restored their power and authority in a disillusioned age.
Those with the darkest fears became the most powerful.
In an age of growing disillusion with politics, the neo-conservatives turned to fear in order to pursue their vision.
They would create a hidden network of evil run by the Soviet Union that only they could see.
After nearly 10 years of fighting, Soviet troops pulled out of Afghanistan.
Both the neo-conservatives and the Islamists believed that it is they who defeated the "evil empire" and now had the power to transform the world.
But both failed in their revolutions.
In response, the neo-conservatives invented a new fantasy enemy, Bill Clinton, focusing on the scandal surrounding him and Monica Lewinsky.
Out of all this comes the seeds of the strange world of fantasy, deception, violence and fear in which we now live.
But the nightmare vision of a uniquely powerful hidden organisation waiting to strike our societies is an illusion.
Wherever one looks for this al-Qaeda organisation, from the mountains of Afghanistan to the "sleeper cells" in America, the British and Americans are chasing a phantom enemy.
But the reason that no-one questions the illusion is because this nightmare enemy gives so many groups new power and influence in a cynical age - and not just politicians.
Those with the darkest imaginations have now become the most powerful."
The series goes on to point out how the very name `Al-Qaeda' was invented in a NYC court room, where they had a stooge on trial willing to make up anything to have his sentencing decreased. The whole thing is made up, but, post 9/11, Bin Laden was all too happy to have a huge terrorist network attributed to him. Those videos of him walking through the training camps? Most of the guys around him were paid for the day. Could we imagine a more obscene hyperreality?
Those innocent civilians being held against their free will at Guantanomo were sold to the US by the Northern Alliance. The more 'foreign-looking' Arabs the grudge-bearing Northern Alliance fighters could find, the more money to line their pockets.
Actually, there are different types of Jihad. Your example is the ignorant apologist one.
Don't you mean the BBC? (o:
So those that believe and vote that Al-qaeda's terrorism is NOT inspired by Quran, why don't you have the courage to explain your reasoning in the comments?
I suppose you could look at it that way; however, one might argue that religious DISBELIEF is actually more the driving force. Oh, they're religious alright; but, they aren't attacking those who believe LIKE them. People are basically lazy. All of us. If a little resistance will get the job done, we'll stop there. So, it's an attitude... and I could argue it's in MOST people. It can start with simple emotional actions, a shrug, a snub, etc. When that doesn't work we ask ourself, is it worth escalating (to achieve what we want?) Then we move up to verbal, or writing nasties to each other on the web, like some of the bloggers on here... (to get people to believe as they do)... When that doesn't work? And if we really have an interest in the assets of these people? WAR. So, in that way I would say, yes, anyone is capable. But not because of what THEY BELIEVE in... It's because of what they want YOU and ME to STOP BELIEVING in. 'course, I could be all washed up. Might just be my imagination.
The Quran. bin Laden's guide and play book to fighting the infidels.
9:123, O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
3:28, Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah
5:51 O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
3:118 O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom.
4:89 They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper
5:82 Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christians; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.
3:151 We will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve, because they set up with Allah that for which He has sent down no authority, and their abode is the fire, and evil is the abode of the unjust
8:60 And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah...
And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to terrorize thereby the enemy of Allah...
2:191, And slay them wherever ye catch them
2:216, Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you
4:84, Then fight in Allah's cause - Thou art held responsible only for thyself - and rouse the believers. It may be that Allah will restrain the fury of the Unbelievers; for Allah is the strongest in might and in punishment.
4:141, And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way (to triumphs) over the believers
5:33, The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive
with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter
8:12, I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them
8:15-16, O ye who believe! when ye meet the Unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day - unless it be in a stratagem of war, or to retreat to a troop (of his own)- he draws on himself the wrath of Allah, and his abode is Hell,- an evil refuge (indeed)!
8:60, Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly
8:65, O Prophet! rouse the Believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred: if a hundred, they will vanquish a thousand of the Unbelievers
9:5, But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem
9:14, Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you (to victory) over them, heal the breasts of Believers
9:23, O ye who believe! take not for protectors your fathers and your brothers if they love infidelity above Faith: if any of you do so, they do wrong
9:28, O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; so let them not, after this year of theirs, approach the Sacred Mosque
9:29, Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (jews and christians), until they pay the (poll tax) Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued
9:39, Unless ye go forth, (for Jihad) He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least
9:73, O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed
25:52, So obey not the disbelievers, but strive against them herewith with a great endeavour
47:4, Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens
48:29, Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other
48:16 Say to those of the dwellers of the desert who were left behind: You shall soon be invited (to fight) against a people possessing mighty prowess; you will fight against them until they submit; then if you obey, Allah will grant you a good reward; and if you turn back as you turned back before, He will punish you with a painful punishment.
The quran is a book of pure hate and violence, just like Hitler's Mien Kampf was. The only difference between the two is that the former promotes a superior religion, the latter promoted a superior race.
Yes, obviously.
IMHO there is more to it than meets the eye, they play religion with politics. For example, that man thinks he is doing it for the good of Islam and will go to paridise because he was told he would by the clerics. The clerics use their status in their religion to influence world affairs and because they are the servents of Allah the people believe him because he is a cleric and what he says is the truth in their eyes.
Jinn_the Kafir i'd to know where you got those quotes from because there are many forms of the Qur'an and the more modern ones have been altered to suit political needs. Oh and if you got them off the internet then i'm just gonna laugh at you. That Qur'an the man is holding in the picture is a Saudi Arabian Qur'an form Mecca, one that has been altered. Readings from the modern day Qur'an differ from those form older ones.
Go to BBC.co.uk and look for Panorama episode called A Question of Leadership. It looks into the Qur'an and its readings and looks at some of the Clerics that use their religion for plitical gain.
"The good muslims do protest, but of course the media isn't gonna wanna cover that."
by Guest User on Sat Oct 14, 06 2:02pm
Is that so?
A "good" Muslim is one who follows the Quran and exemplifies their Prophet Muhammad. So since Muhammad was a terrorist, a torturer, a mass-murderer, an assassin, a rapist, a pedophile, a enslaver, a looter, and a thief, the "good" muslims are not doing anything that their beloved Prophet did not do. These such Muslims are of course the true Muslims. An example of true True Muslims are the Taliban, the Ayatollah, the Mullahs, Hamas, Hezbollah and bin Laden. In fact, Bin Laden can be considered the truest Muslim to his faith.
So yes, the Media does cover the "good" Mulsims that protest. Muslims protested around the world over a few silly cartoons. During these protests the "good" Muslims became violent, rampaged, looted, terrorized, attacked and killed humans, burned churches and embassies, made threats, and called assassinations fatwas. They demanded their precious Islam be respected. When the Pope recently made a hours long intellectual speech that included a single old factual historical quote, the the "good" Muslims became violent, rampaged, looted, terrorized, attacked and killed humans, burned churches and embassies, made threats, and called for assassinatioin fatwas. Again, they demanded their precious Islam be respected.
However, when the international news story of the Christian convert in Afghanistan broke out, the Muslims were eerily silent. This when the Muslim apostate was to face execution by beheading for rejecting Islam for Christianity. And when a number pictures surfaced in the media showing Muslim detainees being humiliated by US forces the "good" Muslims again went bezerk. In contrast to this, Everyone has seen the videos of beheadings released by Muslim Jihadists. During the viewing of those videos you see the most despicable and unimaginable acts, which is the cold blooded murder of another human being. The Muslims in those videos clearly invoke the name of their deity Allah. This shows that they do not perceive this sickening barbaric act as wrong. On the contrary, this is to them an act of worship. They commit these killings to please Allah. The so-called Holy Muhammad himself had thousands of his perceived enemies beheaded too. Their compass of these Mulsims does not signify to them that they are doing anything wrong. That compass is set and directed by the Quran which everyone, including the foolish non-Muslim apologists respect and call "holy". So in the Muslim's mind, what civilized people perceive as being heinous and evil is actually divine to them. A Muslim can kill non-believers with no compunction and he doesn't believe he is doing anything wrong. So whenever these beheadings take place, we see the silence from Muslim world is deafening. There are no mass protests. But dare make a mocking comment about Islam, and the world is set on fire.
"And Jinn, I don't know where you got your translation of the Qura'n from, but most of it is way off. I don't blame you for that though. I guess Muslims should educate people about Islam, so that there will be less ignorance, and not everybody will believe anything that's written."
by Guest User on Sat Oct 14, 06 2:02pm
Well then, it should be the duty and responsibility of Muslims to tell us what the correct "translation", interpretation or context of those verses are. And do it now! Do you claim to know the translations of the Quran better than those Muslims that terrorize? If so you had better go public immediatly!
Just what is the real context and translation when Muhammad commands his followers to scourge their wives if they are not being obedient? What is the true context when he instructs them to kill the unbelievers wherever they find them? What is the real context when he rapes a little 9-year-old child, or women he has captured in war? The truth is, the Quran is a book completely out of context.
What is the translation and context of Quran verse 5:51? It says; "O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them.Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust."
Please tell us what the correct translation is for that intolerant and hateful verse. Please tell how civilization can apply such a barbaric teaching from Quran in this modern day age of science and reason?
The truth is, the so-called moderate Muslim apologists who in contrast to their more fundamentalist counterparts (such as the ones in Afghanistan), have now evolved so far that they are able to distinguish the wrong from the right, are now embarrassed by the stupid and inhumane teachings of Quran. Yet they are the ones who accuse us of taking the verses out of their context or mistranslating. To deceive us they insist to people in the West that Quran cannot be understood and needs to be explained by so-called experts. And they claim that to fully comprehend the meaning of Quran one has to be versed in Tafseer (a scholar’s interpretation of Quran) and hadith. However, funny thing is, they wouldn't accept those tafseers too, and called the Mofasserin (verse interpreters) and Mohadethin (experts of Hadith) fallible and in error. We have witnessed brutal attacks on men such as Ghazali, (the greatest of Islamic scholars) of the Muslim, and Bukhari Hadith, two of the greatest Muhadith that have been revered for centuries, and also other scholars such as Maududi, Muhsin Khan and Yousef Ali. So just what is the correct tafseer? Nobody has been ever able to translate Quran correctly, let alone translate it and interpret it. Yet these apologists want us to believe they know the proper translations better than others. Hogwash!
Of course apologists like you don't realize that what you say is apostasy. The Quran from Allah repeatedly claims to be a "clear book" (Q.5:15) "easy to understand” (Q.44:58 , Q.54:22 , Q.54:32, Q.54:40) "explained in detail" (Q.6:114), "conveyed clearly", (Q.5:16, Q.10:15) and with “no doubt” in it (Q.2:1). Claiming that Quran cannot be understood, translated, intepreted or is not clear and needs tafseer is in itself disbelieving and rejecting in the Quran. Was Allah a complete moron?
The fact is, if thousands of faithful Islamic terrorists around the globe are killing humans because of what they are interpreting from the Quran, then clearly the Quran is a dangerous book! Why the heck should it matter to you what you think I AM "translating" from the Quran verses? Your criticism is obviously greatly misplaced pal. You should be busy trying to correct the Islamic terrorists, not me! Please shake off your defensive Islamic sensitivites, and get your head out of the sand. Get your priorities straight.
"Anyway, the phrases in the Qura'n about fighting are about the time when Muslims were a minority, and the unbelievers where trying to eliminate them, so God was encouraging them to defend themselves and their families and their religion."
by Guest User on Sat Oct 14, 06 2:02pm
You obviously and foolishly believe you are talking to an unimformed idiot. Do you think I just woke up one day last week and decided I was against Islam? Either you have been greatly misinformed about the history of Islam, or you are totally ignorant of Muhammad, or you are lying?
First of all, let's get one thing straight. Islam is a phoney religious cult that is not from any god. Muhammad was charlatan and a liar (later he became much worse). He self-proclaimed himself as a messenger from god. Nobody told him this, his simply proclaimed it! And he continued to tell this to anybody that would listen, and often killed those that didn't. He had charisma, but so did Adolph Hitler. He was proficient at convincing people he was a prophet, but so were Charles Manson, Shoko Asahara, David Koresh and Jim Jones to name a few. Muhammad was mentally deranged narcissist who craved power and control.
Sure, in the beginning Muhammad was a minority, but he couldn't depend on a phoney non existant god to make him powerful, so he became a thief. He attacked unarmed merchant caravans, killed innocent people and looted their belongings. What kind of god is this Allah that would order his followers to commit these crimes? If Muhammad and his followers were ever being attacked by others, it was because he was a criminal and he and his gang of bandits were and menace to th region. There is nothing holy or extraordinary in looting and being a highway robber. And what about the people of Banu Quraiza who never did anything against Muhammad? Muhammad and his men surrounded the Banu Quraiza, then they cut of their supply of water for fourteen days. The entire population of Banu Quraiza with the children, infants, elderly, sick and all kind of people suffered for 14 days and when they finally surrendered without any fight, the so-called holy Prophet slaughtered all the men and sold as slaves their women and children. He kept one woman for himself, named Rayhana, who just happened to be most beautiful girl of the whole tribe and she became Muhammad's own sex slave. He never ever married her. Where is the glory in that? What kind of messenger from god was this common Bedouin thief Muhammad? The poor Banu Quraiza never did a thing against Muhammad. Their only fault was that they were artisans, goldsmiths and wealthy Jewish people. Muhammad wanted and needed their wealth.
This is the early days. When Muhammad acquired more power, he became more brutal. To gain more followers he claimed his successes were due to Allah. He rewarded and praised those that bowed to him and obeyed his commands, but punished, exiled or killed those that didn't. This is exactly how all dictators and tyrants gain and keep their power.
When he was finally strong enough Muhammad invaded Mecca. His power by now went to his head. He burst into the Kaba and destroyed al the idols of those that had worshipped them for many centuries. These people had not attacked Muhammad. Muhammad had no respect for them and their beliefs. He not only insulted the "unbelievers" and their very sacred beliefs, he assaulted them, slaughtered them and forced HIS version of the truth upon them.
Upon Muhammad's "victorious" (LOL!) entry into the city of Mecca he destroyed every single temple and deity which the people their had worshipped for many a century. Shortly after his Mecca invasion, the Prophet commanded his general Khalid bin Walid to also destroy all the pagan temples of the neighboring tribes around Mecca. The General arrived upon the Jazima tribe and asked them to say “We are Muslims”. But instead they answered, “We are Sabians”, whereby Khalid had the entire tribe slaughtered. The people of the Jazima tribe had at no time ever given any trouble to the Muslims. At the conclusion of Muhammad's twenty two year militant religious campaign, he had managed to purge the entire Southern region of Arabia of its population of infidel pagans, Jews, Christians and Sabians by way of genocide, mass murder, enslavement, forced conversion and mass exile. This from a so-called holy man who claimed he was a messenger from a merciful god???? What a joke! Is this the behavior of a holy man? Is this how a messenger from god spreads the "religion of peace"?
obviously vote-stuffed ballot
Voted : Yes.
It's amazing, one man's writings from hundreds of years ago, influencing and controling millions of people today, promoting vicious and violent behavior, threatening the peace and safety of the world, illogical and dictatorial beliefs and practices, a source of evil and death. Mohammed promoted himself as being some kind of last word and supposed authority on the will of the Divine, but Mohammed was simply Inventing his own religion, his own ideas and opinions. Not really a prophet at all. But he evidentally wrote rather well and simple people were easily convinced, sometimes with the aid of a sword..
But no more can we tolerate vicious and rabid religious crazies..
Voted : Yes.
Obviously. Mohammed wrote some very inflammatory and inciteful things in his 'Koran', which promote violence, viciousness and murder, definitely Not a peaceful or civilized religion.
Mohammed's personal invented religion 'Islam' needs to be Totally reexamined and reconsidered, updated, modernized, to fit in with the rest of the world, please.
Islam seems to be considerably retarded. Women should not have to run around all the time totally covered, or even just the head. Women are wonderful and do not need to be concealed or needlessly forced to hide themselves.
And religious violence is no longer acceptable, not in the whole world. Old beliefs and old practices must pass away, the new must displace the old, change is necessary and inevitable, change is necessary for progress and improvement..
it is the imagination of the americans. they are so hate filled that they have to make up lies about others just to have an excuse to hate and attack.
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