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WIESENTHAL CENTRE WANTS TO BUILD A "TOLERANCE MUSEUM" ON A MUSLIM CEMETARY

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WIESENTHAL CENTRE WANTS TO BUILD A "TOLERANCE MUSEUM" ON A MUSLIM CEMETARY


[+] serious ballot by cranky
ACTIVE Fri Sep 15, 06 - Wed Jun 10, 09

Row over Israeli tolerance museum

BBC News website, Jerusalem

For the last 40 years Mohammed Hamdi Bader has left his tailor's shop in the Old City once a month and taken a short walk to the heart of west Jerusalem where he prayed close to his grandfather's grave.

But the 49-year-old Palestinian father-of-five can no longer reach the grave and he's furious about it.

The Maamam Allah cemetery, which is at least 1,000 years old, has become a building site.

The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Centre is constructing a Museum of Tolerance on the cemetery. The centre says the museum will seek to promote "unity and respect among Jews and between people of all faiths".

The project has raised the ire of the Muslim community in the city. There have been accusations that exhumed remains have been damaged.

Despite a temporary injunction on work at the site issued by the Islamic Court - a division of the Israeli justice system - Israeli archaeologists and developers have continued excavating remains at the cemetery, says Durgham Saif, a Palestinian lawyer.

On Wednesday Mr Saif took the case to the Israeli Supreme Court in the hope of strengthening the Islamic Court's injunction. The supreme court's verdict is still pending.

Standing in his tailor's shop beside an old hoarding advertising "London styles", with drawings of men in suits, raincoats and bowler hats from the 1930s, Mr Bader says he thinks a museum of tolerance is a good idea.

"But you can't build this museum on any graveyard, regardless of religion," he adds.

The discovery of human remains on building sites in this part of the world is highly sensitive, for both Jews and Muslims.

The Mufti of Jerusalem, Ekrema Sabri, says that Muslim religious authorities were not consulted about digging at the site.

Sitting in his office in the al-Aqsa Mosque, the mufti also says that the museum's claim to promote tolerance is absurd.

"How can a museum carrying the name of tolerance be built on a graveyard?"

Durgham Saif, the lawyer who brought the Islamic petition to the Israeli Supreme Court, says that bones have already been removed to boxes and that one skull has been smashed.

But Charles Levine, spokesman for the new museum, accused Palestinian and Muslim groups of exploiting the issue for political gain.
"Why didn't they protest when the car park was built?" asks Mr Levine, referring to the part of the cemetery converted into a car park 20 years ago and now part of the site for the museum.

"Wherever you dig in Jerusalem you are going to find graves and archaeological sites. We are fully committed to resolving this issue in a respectful manner."

Californian governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and Ehud Olmert, now acting Israeli Prime Minister, attended a ceremony in 2004 to lay the Museum of Tolerance's foundation stone.

Plans for the $150m museum, designed by renowned architect Frank Gehry, include a theatre complex, a conference hall, an education centre and a library.

It is expected to be completed in 2009.

For now, the cemetery is patrolled by security guards and is surrounded by a four-metre-high metal fence and razor wire.

Through the cracks of the padlocked gates, you can see diggers and bulldozers. White tents, housing skeletal remains, are also visible.

Inside one of these white tents, Mr Bader says, lie the mortal remains of his grandfather.

* * * * * * * *

Is building a "tolerance museum" on an ancient Muslim cemetary a sign of tolerance?

Yes, desecrating cemetaries says "tolerance" to me
No, this plan is a classic example of insensitivity and intolerance


Ballot #102000 : SEE RESULTS

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COMMENTS:
LOL, Germany should raze Auschiwitz and build a Oktoberfest Museum. Goodwill and understanding through sharing good Beers and Bratwursts....

MAG_killme what the heck is wrong with these people??? MAG_killme
by LCD on Fri Sep 15, 06 3:05pm [+]

Do you even read what you post?

"Wherever you dig in Jerusalem you are going to find graves and archaeological sites. We are fully committed to resolving this issue in a respectful manner."
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri Sep 15, 06 3:10pm [+]

"Wherever you dig in Jerusalem you are going to find graves and archaeological sites. We are fully committed to resolving this issue in a respectful manner."

So what do you think the resolution should be?

choice 1: scrap the plans, build elsewhere

choice 2: write report justifying it, build anyway.

Such flippant remarks (...going to find graves everywhere you dig) make me question the sincerity of that Levine character.

Hey I say dig up some jewish graves and see if they can resolve that in a respectful manner. No offense to you personally FFLSD, but even you gotta see the rediculous notion of justifying such an act.
by LCD on Fri Sep 15, 06 3:24pm [+]

omigod!
by Black_Lava on Fri Sep 15, 06 3:28pm [+]

"We are fully committed to resolving this issue in a respectful manner."

Yeah, and Bush is committed to being "The Peace President" and respecting the U.S. Constitution. rolleyes
by cranky on Fri Sep 15, 06 3:35pm [+]

LCD. He did NOT justify it. I see no where in that article that he "justified" it. I'll agree that one line was insensitive, but he also noted that both groups were EXPLOITING this for POLITICAL purposes.

All this ballot is about is that it gives cranky another excuse to bash Israel and Jews as well. He never says a word when Muslims desecrate Jewish graves (and I can give you numerous examples of this). As long as he can bash Israel and Jews all is well. Rather than acknowledge all the work that the Wiesenthal Centre has done throughout the world to educate people about tolerance, genocide, etc., he exploits this ballot. Of course, I doubt cranky really cares about that, just like he doesn't really care about the genocide in the Sudan. Which by the way, the Wiesenthal Center is one of the world leaders in trying to get people to stop the genocide in Sudan and educate people about the slavery being practiced there. That and all of the efforts that they put forth in educating people about genocides that have happened elsewhere. IN FACT, their whole mission is to STOP GENOCIDE everywhere.

Some FACTS (which of course no one bothers to look up) before hyperventilating:
1. Israeli law explicitly deals with the handling of human bones - of any faith - uncovered during building anywhere in the country. It requires that the bones be removed respectfully, turned over to the Israeli Antiquities Authority, and then transferred to the leaders of the relevant faith.
2. MUSLIM authorities themselves REMOVED GRAVES from, and BUILT upon, this very SAME CEMETERY!
3. In the early 1920s the grand mufti (The pal of HITLER and the NAZIS) of Jerusalem issued a fatwa or religious decree declaring that the MAMILLA CEMETERY was NO LONGER SACRED ground, and was therefore AVAILABLE for BUILDING.
4. In 1929 ARABS REMOVED GRAVES and BUILT the Palace Hotel ATOP the CEMETERY'S southern part.
5. History: Arabs have plundered Jewish graveyards. When the Arab League attacked the reborn state, the Jordanian army pillaged the 2,500-year-old Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. They uprooted more than 38,000 gravestones.
6. Sharia Court issued a ruling that because the MUSLIM CEMETERY WAS ABANDONED, it was no longer sanctified and that the EXCAVATIONS were being carried out in COMPLETE COORDINATION with the Antiquities Division (Ruling issued in 1964).

Far be it for cranky to ever bother with the FACTS. It is a POLITICAL ISSUE being EXPLOITED by the Arabs.

by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri Sep 15, 06 3:57pm [+]

It is also an issue which CRANKY is EXPLOITING for POLITICAL purposes. The gay people on this site know you are homophobic, should I add another group to that list?
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri Sep 15, 06 3:59pm [+]

I agree both groups are exploiting the situation, like every other situation in the middle east. that's a given. Let's us not do that same thing here.

When I get home, I will post a detailed counterpoint to what you've posted.

meanwhile, I hope you are not calling me homophobic - cause I am far from it.
by LCD on Fri Sep 15, 06 4:25pm [+]

Not you LCD. CRANKY.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Fri Sep 15, 06 7:45pm [+]

That's the illogic of a Kool-Aid drinker: Fiddle is Jewish and gay, therefore if you disagree with him, you must be anti-Semitic AND homophobic.
by cranky on Fri Sep 15, 06 8:01pm [+]

And, you'll note, I took my information from the BBC, and cited my source.

Fiddle put up information, which from the way in which he put it into his post, looks as if he wrote it. He did not. The material was plagiarized, without citation, from an article in the Jerusalem Post and written by Lori Lowenthal Marcus, the president of the Zionist Organization of America, Greater Philadelphia District.

Way to go, Fiddle.
by cranky on Fri Sep 15, 06 8:08pm [+]

cracky. Aren't you supposedly "Mr Tolerant"? Why is it that you are once again Jew and gay baiting?

You also forgot to mention that your article is from FEBRUARY, 2006.

BTW. I verified what I posted with BOTH Jewish and Arab sources. I ACTUALLY RESEARCH the stuff I find. The move to build here has drawn harsh criticism from the following:
1. Israel-Palestine Center for Research and Information (IPCRI). This is headed by an Israeli and an Arab.
2. The ADL opposes building there.
3. The Tolerance museum has drawn harsh criticism from politicians representing both the left and the right.
4. Yad Vashem has publicly questioned why the Tolerance Center wants to build in Israel, especially at this site.
5. The site was a parking lot most recently. No one complained then.
6. Apparently, no one knew there were bones buried there until the construction efforts began.
7. The Tolerance Museum has offered to move the bones to a nearby NEGLECTED cemetery. The offer has been refused.

I'm not taking sides with the Center. I oppose them building there. It is a stupid decision. I am just trying to add some FACTS to balance out your agenda of bashing Israel and Jews.

Unlike yourself cracky, I research things from both sides. I remember not too long ago you posting numerous FAKE quotes by Israeli politicians. The slightest bit of research beyond the leftist anti-Israel site you copied them from would have shown you that they were completely bogus. That wouldn't have mattered to you though. It doesn't fit your agenda. You know, you aren't much different from what you claim herzog is: bigoted, intolerant, stirring up hate towards a religious/ethnic group, and being obsessed towards demonizing a group.
by FiddleFaddleOnLSD on Sat Sep 16, 06 5:22am [+]

Voted : No, this plan is a classic example of insensitivity and intolerance

When I first read this, I thought it was a joke ballot. Turn the situation around, and see how the Israelis would like it. Puh-leez.
by mojo on Sat Sep 16, 06 5:37am [+]

Fiddle:

The first time I heard about this outrage of insensitivity was yesterday, on NPR's Morning Edition:

"Jerusalem Tolerance Museum in Legal Limbo

by Michael Sullivan

Morning Edition, September 15, 2006

The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center wants to build a museum of tolerance in Jerusalem. But construction was halted months ago when local Muslims complained that the site is an old Islamic Cemetery."

I then researched it further, finding the BBC article from last February. The Israeli Supreme Court still hasn't issued a ruling, so we don't know, yet, whether the Wiesenthal Centre will be able to spit on the Muslims in the name of tolerance.

And it interests me that you think that February is sooo long ago that it is irrelevant, even though the issue hasn't been resolved yet, and the controversy still rages.

When your Kool-Aid Guru, herzog, put up several ballots obsessing over global cooling, which hasn't been a controversy in 30 years, you were silent about how irrelevant that was. Maybe if you took your head out of his ass, you might be able to see the light better.

_Beelzebubba_jackass
by cranky on Sat Sep 16, 06 10:25am [+]

"cracky. Aren't you supposedly "Mr Tolerant"? Why is it that you are once again Jew and gay baiting?"

Piddle, you brought up the issue of gays and Jews. I never even mentioned any relationship between Jews and the Wiesenthal Centre. You were the one that claimed the Centre for Isreal and the Jews. Frankly, I didn't know that the Wiesenthal Centre was a "Jewish organization" until you pointed it out.

And you were the one that started slandering me about my "alleged" homophobia. But that's easy, isn't it? You rightwingers always complain that blacks play the race card. How hypocritical, when the first time the pressure hits, you start playing the gay card and the Jewish Card.

And I find it interesting that you are always boasting about being gay, but always hiding the fact that you are Jewish. Odd, isn't it?

_Beelzebubba_jackass
by cranky on Sat Sep 16, 06 10:36am [+]

"I research things from both sides."

Then you appear to take the rightwing, pro-Israel side, every time, and cut-and-paste material to support that position.

Your backpeddaling in the following post is very unconvincing.

"I remember not too long ago you posting numerous FAKE quotes by Israeli politicians."

Sorry, didn't happen.

"you claim herzog is: bigoted, intolerant, stirring up hate towards a religious/ethnic group, and being obsessed towards demonizing a group."

Yes, he is. That's very true.
by cranky on Sat Sep 16, 06 10:41am [+]

And speaking of Piddle's uncited source for his "research," here is what he wrote:

1. Israeli law explicitly deals with the handling of human bones - of any faith - uncovered during building anywhere in the country. It requires that the bones be removed respectfully, turned over to the Israeli Antiquities Authority, and then transferred to the leaders of the relevant faith.
2. MUSLIM authorities themselves REMOVED GRAVES from, and BUILT upon, this very SAME CEMETERY!
3. In the early 1920s the grand mufti (The pal of HITLER and the NAZIS) of Jerusalem issued a fatwa or religious decree declaring that the MAMILLA CEMETERY was NO LONGER SACRED ground, and was therefore AVAILABLE for BUILDING.
4. In 1929 ARABS REMOVED GRAVES and BUILT the Palace Hotel ATOP the CEMETERY'S southern part.
5. History: Arabs have plundered Jewish graveyards. When the Arab League attacked the reborn state, the Jordanian army pillaged the 2,500-year-old Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. They uprooted more than 38,000 gravestones.

Here, direct quotes, from the source of Piddle's "research," Lori Lowenthal Marcus, President of the Zionist Organization of America:"

"Israeli law explicitly deals with the handling of human bones — of any faith — uncovered during building anywhere in the country. It requires that the bones be removed respectfully, turned over to the Israeli Antiquities Authority, and then transferred to the leaders of the relevant faith."

"Muslim authorities themselves removed graves from, and built upon, this very same cemetery!"

"In the early 1920s the grand mufti of Jerusalem issued a fatwa, or religious decree, declaring that the Mamilla Cemetery was no longer sacred ground, and was therefore available for building. Accordingly, in 1929 Arabs removed graves and built the Palace Hotel atop the cemetery’s southern part."

"Arabs have plundered Jewish graveyards. When the Arab League attacked the reborn state, the Jordanian army pillaged the 2,500-year-old Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. The uprooting of 38,000 gravestones to build houses, roads and even latrines is well documented."

In most colleges that isn't called research, it's called plagiarism. rolleyes

by cranky on Sat Sep 16, 06 10:53am [+]

Voted : No, this plan is a classic example of insensitivity and intolerance
"How frelling stupid can humanity get?," I often ask myself. Now, I have a new low-bar answer.
by Truthseeker013 on Sat Sep 16, 06 5:58pm [+]

Maybe if you took your head out of his ass, you might be able to see the light better.

not exactly to engage in civlized conversation.
by LCD on Mon Sep 18, 06 11:34am [+]

Some FACTS (which of course no one bothers to look up) before hyperventilating:
1. Israeli law explicitly deals with the handling of human bones - of any faith - uncovered during building anywhere in the country. It requires that the bones be removed respectfully, turned over to the Israeli Antiquities Authority, and then transferred to the leaders of the relevant faith.


Would you approve of North Korean antiquities commission digging up bones of George Washington, if they promise to be respectful?

It's someone else's bones. They put them in the ground in the hopes that ghouls would not dig them up.

Most respectible thing to do is to leave them where it has been for 1000 years.

2. MUSLIM authorities themselves REMOVED GRAVES from, and BUILT upon, this very SAME CEMETERY!

so, does that make it okay for Israel to do it?

3. In the early 1920s the grand mufti (The pal of HITLER and the NAZIS) of Jerusalem issued a fatwa or religious decree declaring that the MAMILLA CEMETERY was NO LONGER SACRED ground, and was therefore AVAILABLE for BUILDING.

so now you are propping up something that a "pal of hitler" said as an excuse/justification. They also probably said to kill all zionists. should we listen to one and not the other?

4. In 1929 ARABS REMOVED GRAVES and BUILT the Palace Hotel ATOP the CEMETERY'S southern part.

this is really getting pathetic.
1000 year old bones of your enemies should not be dug up, period.

5. History: Arabs have plundered Jewish graveyards. When the Arab League attacked the reborn state, the Jordanian army pillaged the 2,500-year-old Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives. They uprooted more than 38,000 gravestones.

so by your logic that was okay right? or are you saying that this is a revenge grave robbery, covered up with a monument of tolerence?

6. Sharia Court issued a ruling that because the MUSLIM CEMETERY WAS ABANDONED, it was no longer sanctified and that the EXCAVATIONS were being carried out in COMPLETE COORDINATION with the Antiquities Division (Ruling issued in 1964).

sharia court saya a alot of things. just like that Levin guy. they should move in together and make hot monkey love.

seriously.MAG_rofl
by LCD on Mon Sep 18, 06 11:42am [+]

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