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COMMENTS:
I believe it depends on the particular interpretation or sect of Christianity. IMO, this religion gets twisted beyond recognition by too many people who claim to be followers. Gives a bad rap to the real followers.
Voted : Yes
If you think about it that way, it sure does.
by mojo on Tue Oct 03, 06 12:27pm
[+]
I think when you ask forgiveness you have to mean it, truly be remorseful you can't just kill someone and say God I'm sorry and kill someone else and say God I'm sorry again. As you said you are still accountable for your actions by laws of your society.
I would also question if someone is really a true Christian if they are all about themselves and continuously do harm to others.
Voted : No
"As long as I ask God for forgiveness then the consequences of my actions are meaningless (unless I'm held accountable by humanity)."
I have never known anyone who truly converted to Christianity that did not try to make amends for their previously bad ways. I remember one of the biggest car dealers in my area a while back became a Christian. He changed his life in a number of ways and most certainly did not run the dealership the same way. It was rather remarkable to pretty much everyone.
Christianity to my knowledge doesn't let you do anything and just "poof" it is forgiven. Catholics for instance must confess it and take actions. Other Christians act the same way.
"This must be one of the major appeals of theocracy. As long as you appear pious then your actions don't count."
Theocracy is a form of government. I believe you are talking about religion. Most religions do the opposite of what you claim. They make you responsible for how you treat others. Of course, satanism and secular hedonism do not.
ff-
"Theocracy is a form of government. I believe you are talking about religion. Most religions do the opposite of what you claim. They make you responsible for how you treat others. Of course, satanism and secular hedonism do not."
Theocracy is a form of government based on religion. mentioning it in a religious conversation can hardly be called irrelevant.
Secular HUMANISTS base their ethics on empathy and a desire to live in a peaceful society. The type of Christian I'm referring to bases his ethics on a fear of retribution from God. Once you mis-focus your guilt in such a way it becomes desirable to eliminate it through prayer rather than face retribution from humanity.
"I have never known anyone who truly converted to Christianity that did not try to make amends for their previously bad ways. I remember one of the biggest car dealers in my area a while back became a Christian. He changed his life in a number of ways and most certainly did not run the dealership the same way. It was rather remarkable to pretty much everyone."
This is just conjecture. You may have past hundreds of Christians living deviant lives before you found one solid example of a good one. The word "truly" is most telling in this statement because who knows how many converts you don't count because they converted without any significant moral change for the better.
Voted : No
It makes irresponsible people irresponsible. Some people are always irresponsible, and if there isn't one excuse they'll find another.
the notion many Catholics and perhaps Christians in general have, that that all you have to do is ask forgiveness and be "sincerely" sorry for your sins and all will be well has always bothered me. I just don't think it is that easy. i don't really believe the absolution of a priest is enough to wipe away the guilt and torment of a soul if they have really done wrong and truly regret it. On the other hand, words are only words - symbols to represent concepts that sometimes cannot entirely be pinned down. Maybe the message is simply that one can be forgiven - that guilt need not smother us as though there were no hope for the future.
When people accept a religion, sometimes they twist certain teachings to suit their needs. That doesn't necessarily make the underlying core of that teaching flawed or erroneous.
I do think some Christians believe that they do not need to be responsible - all they have to do is ask forgiveness - but then again many people just don't believe they are responsible - period - regardless of their religion.
Voted : No
IMO, they were always irresponsible. Christianity just offers them the excuse they need when they get caught with hands in the cookie jar. But ignore me. I'm a huge fan of humanity. :P
There are too many interpretations and misinterpretations of Christianity for me to answer this question accurately. The same could be said for the other two Abrahamsonian religions.
many Southern Baptists feel that anything they do during the week will be forgiven when they're Saved on Sunday. I've known a lot (at least one churchload) of people who lived by this rule.
by Jyl on Tue Oct 03, 06 5:17pm
[+]
Voted : No
I am a Christian and it just makes me want to be more responsible. How dare you put a picture of Jesus Christ with an MP-5 A5!!!
RG... you stereotype people more than just about anyone on this site...
" Theocracy is a form of government based on religion. mentioning it in a religious conversation can hardly be called irrelevant."
It wasn't relevant to your ballot question, nor to the debate. The following sentence was unconnected to your statement.
" This is just conjecture. You may have past hundreds of Christians living deviant lives before you found one solid example of a good one. The word "truly" is most telling in this statement because who knows how many converts you don't count because they converted without any significant moral change for the better."
I know a lot more Christians who after becoming one have changed their ways than I know of bitter atheists like yourself doing the same. I'll ask you again... why do you hate and stereotype Christians so much? According to you they are all essentially inbred uneducated sheep. Of course, in your view, you are superior to them because you are an atheist. Something wrong there? A bit of arrogance? It isn't a virtue.
I'll point out that these stereotypes that people bring up continually miss the point. Being forgive by gd is one thing and one that Christians believe in. Declaring everything bad they did during the week as something they can ignore (by not making amends or changing) because it is forgiven is a practice that is alien to most.
BTW, I'm not a Christian but if you posted repeated similar types of ballots on Muslims or races people would call you a racist and a bigot. Your ballots are so full of typical stereotypes that it is almost pointless to answer them. It would be one thing if you actually understood religion and Christianity and made educated ballots about it. You don't. You apparently have zero knowledge of Christianity other than your shallow stereotypes. They are just bigoted, hateful stereotypes of Christians. Of course on this site you will be highly rewarded for them. Just don't turn your attention to Islam. People will attack you then.
ANY Fundies are headed straight for HELL no matter what. It's nothing but a mental disorder, the EXACT same kind that made all those good kids "siege heil" so long ago.
The only thing that actually matters is caring for the planet and sharing with each other but that will NOT happen in my lifetime, this world is Lost and God's not about to save us. This is why I decided to laugh until I die.
by Jyl on Tue Oct 03, 06 9:43pm
[+]
(grrrr Imagine at least three dirty words in there that I edited out, Jellybrain!!!!!)
by Jyl on Tue Oct 03, 06 9:44pm
[+]
Voted : Yes
It can make them irresponsible in their actions.
It can make them irresponsible in their attitudes to science education.
It can make them irresponsible in their attitudes to sex education.
It can make them irresponsible in their actions towards other faiths and followers.
It can make them irresponsible in their attitude towards homosexuals.
Religion is pure cowardice - a way for the intellectually challenged to deal with the fact there is no meaning, no purpose and no everlasting paradise when we die.
Face up and accept that our time in existence is finite and inconsequential.
First off all you know nothing about Christianity.
You ask God for forgivness, but that does not mean you are free of the consequences you will get for your actions. Forgiveness is not a free pass. We are Gods children and just like a good parent he teaches us lessons. In the Bible it says that every knee shall bow in front of God and everyone will be held accountable for their sins.
I remember reading about a poll that was taken on Evangelical Christians. A majority of them believed that being saved (i.e. accepting Jesus as your personal savior) was more important than how how you behaved in life in determining whether you were going to Heaven or Hell.
Cranky..unless you can site the poll as a fact then you just made it up. If you are saved you go to heaven no matter what. But you still must answer for your sins in front of God. What happens then I cant tell you I have not been there yet.
FF- Like it or not Christians make up a majority in this country and because this is a democracy they hold alot of power. And with that power comes a higher standard of accountability. I do not hate Christians. I detest some of the methods with which they support their doctrines. I am not a "fan" of Judaism or Islam but my criticism is reserved not only because I am not as familiar with their beliefs but they do not have as much influence in America and are therefore not as relevant to my everyday life.
The fact that you claim I have "zero knowledge" of Christianity only tells me that you have not read my ballots despite the fact that you post on every single one of them. I don't mind people bringing a different opinion to the table but you seem more interested in slandering me than having an intelligent conversation about the topics I offer. I could just as easily call you a bigot for referring to secular humanists as secular hedonists but instead I have made efforts refute your opinions and slander is by no means an adequate method of disputing a point. "If this be treason have at it."
no, because i think the point is that you are supposed to mean it, rather then just do whatever you want and then make a death bed plea for forgiveness, so to speak. Presumably, God being the supreme being, he would be able to know whether you meant it or not. Also, whether you are religous or not its hard to argue with the core values like love thy neighbour and thou shalt not kill, etc...
Voted : No
A REAL Christian knows that's not how it works.
Voted : No
Christians may be forgiven by God for their misdeeds, but that has nothing to do with the consequences of that deed, nor does God's word even imply that there will be no consequences on this earth.
Jyl,
It appears you know nothing of the Southern Baptist religion. Their belief is 'once saved...always saved, which means they do not go to church each Sunday for a 'renewal' of forgiveness of the past week. MANY Christian religions could come under this weekly, so called cleansing, but not the Southern
Baptists or most ANY Baptists. Only those that believe you can lose your salvation must renew it each week. You probably should know a little bit more about the diffirent types of Christian beliefs before you begin discussing their doctrine.
Voted : No
Your interpretation of what Christianity teaches is flawed. If people believe they can't be held to account by society for their sins because they have been forgiven by god, then THAT belief is THEIR own error, not the any error of the what Christian doctrine teaches. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that god's forgiveness exonerates one from being prosecuted or being held to account for their transgressions by the rest of society.
my "doctrine"
well 'scuze me smarty pants.. all I know about this is what I learned growing out and going to church with southern baptists. what I was pointing out is the Belief that being "Saved" will land you in heaven no matter what you do afterward.
And Not believing you can loose your salvation makes it even worse.. on behalf of Southern Baptists I thank you for this clarification.
by Jyl on Wed Oct 11, 06 9:34pm
[+]
growing *up
by Jyl on Wed Oct 11, 06 9:34pm
[+]
obviuosly those who said no are very ignorant
Some of the irreverant ignorant here is astounding. Just because someone is a christian does not mean they are a fundamentalist loon.
One thing you seem to be forgetting is that the act of forgiveness is not one that is simple by any means. If the person asking for forgiveness is doing so merely for the 'vindication' in the public eyes, that is not true forgiveness as it is taught in any religion. Therefore to look at those who do so as a perfectly viable example of 'christianity' and how 'flawed' the religion is as a whole, is rather perposterous.
Let me put it this way, a true Christian should not be bilking people out of their life savings to begin with. And even if he were able to make amends in God's eyes, he would still have a long ways to go to make amends to those he wronged, which is part of the overall aspect of 'forgiveness' as it is taught in the bible.
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