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COMMENTS:
Steel and concrete skyscrapers can ONLY COLLAPSE in 2 possible ways, and these are the ONLY WAYS that they have ever observed to collapse.
1. Controlled demolitions (leaving behind hot molten metal in the basements due to steel cutting charges, and a LOT of powderised concrete)
2. Severe earthquakes that damage their foundations, causing them to lean over on an angle and crash like a felled tree.
High rise buildings are very strong and solid, made of super strong engineering materials like iron and fire-proof concrete.
People who believe that steel can soften completely in air fires are ignorant gullible idiots who probably still believe that Santa lives in the North Pole... they fail to RECOGNIZE that Iron (Fe) does not melt away or go all rubbery and weak for air-cooled internal combustion motorbike engines, steam engine boilers, cooking pots, frying pans, barbeque grills and dozens of other products subjected to air fire flames which typically burn at about 233 to 300 C in air.
Even your own car's engine block and cylinders are made from cast iron (Fe), where IRON melts at 1530 C... the people who believe in the "Official" 9/11 Stories are total dim-wits, devoid of any independent research or logical thinking abilities, even though they think they are.
These are the kind of people who religiiously believe that fire can make solid concrete explode, even though concrete is fireproof and doesn't become physically damaged in under 2000 C temperatures (tensile strength of over 4000+ psi, or over 27 to 42 MPa)...
They also like to believe that buildings can free-fall collapse into themselves for no good reason! And that fires can cause multiple ground tremors (minor earthquakes) prior to buildings collapsing!
That's how smart these 9/11 "Official" story believers are! If Bush told them to get naked and bend over and spread their buttcheeks for the sake of finding terrorists, (perhaps hiding in there) they would gladly do so because they are that dumb and gullible, and so afraid of learning and facing the facts... Like the massive evidence of huge hot pools of once-molten metal, sizzling at orange-hot (940C +) temperatures up to 6 weeks after 9/11, buried under the rubble of all 3 WTC buildings that collapse! These people cannot even believe the WTC Lease Owner, Larry Silverstein, when he states out in the open: "... maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it" (ie. control demolition WTC 7)... "... and then we watched the building collapse." - as shown on the PBS Documentary "America Rebuilds", which was discussing the destruction of Building 7, which was not even hit by any jet plane... Even the OWNER agrees WTC 7 was "pulled" by explosives, and openly admitted it, so if these gullible "Official" 9/11 story believers cannot even believe the WTC Lease owner's own words... WHAT HOPE DOES ANYONE HAVE OF CONVINCING THEM THAT THEY ARE BELIEVING IN OFFICIAL LIES AND DECEPTION, DESIGNED TO FOOL GULLIBLE AND STUPID PEOPLE LIKE THEM?
IT'S LIKE TRYING TO TELL A DEAF PERSON THAT HE REALLY IS DEAF, BUT THE DEAF PERSON THINKS YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS MUTE.
OR IT'S LIKE TRYING TO EXPLAIN TO A PERSON WHO REFUSES TO OPEN HIS/HER EYES, THAT THERE IS A LOT TO SEE IF THEY JUST WANT TO OPEN THEIR EYES AND SEE THE FACTS AS THEY ARE...
These people have obviously got serious mental deficiencies by choosing not to even look at the evidence, and constantly dismissing everything as "conspiracy theory" even though it all agrees with scientific facts and physical evidence... something that the "Official 9/11 Stories" cannot measure up to under scrutiny, because they are nothing but huge lies, designed to cover up a MASS MURDER that was committed on 9/11, committed by war profiteers and those who hate Arabs and Muslims enough, to make Americans angry and more racist towards middle-eastern looking people.
Open your eyes, stop believing in the lies of smelly Bush and Dirty Dick, and just look at the facts and use your brains for once...
(Remove spaces in the link below)
scholars for 911 truth. org / Why Indeed Did the World Trade Center Buildings Completely Collapse . pdf
The bUSh Government did all it could to hide these facts and avoided conducting serious scientific investigations into the 3 WTC building collapses, because the top officials know that the overwhelming evidence of controlled demolitions will implicate them and prove that 9/11 was all an inside job... organized and run by real terrorists, but wearing expensive business suits and telling endless lies and deceptions on TV, trying to control the minds of the gullible...
"Steel and concrete skyscrapers can ONLY COLLAPSE in 2 possible ways"
According to who? This is not backed up by events in the real world where buildings have collapsed due to terrorist bombings, accidental gas explosions and poor workmanship.
"These are the kind of people who religiiously believe that fire can make solid concrete explode"
And who claimed this? Nobody.
"They also like to believe that buildings can free-fall collapse into themselves for no good reason"
No. They believe that some buildings collapse after catastrophic collisions with jetliners and subsequent fires causing massive damage to the surrounding buildings.
" fires can cause multiple ground tremors (minor earthquakes) prior to buildings collapsing!"
No. They believe conspiracy theorists have manipulated seismograph images in order to bolster truthless claims.
"Even the OWNER agrees WTC 7 was "pulled" by explosives, and openly admitted it,"
No. He admits discussing pulling emergency teams from the building.
The above comment is nothing short of disgusting. The repeated insults, logical fallacies and outright lies are shameful.
Conspiracy Theorists are gulity of making their own ridiculous claims that they attribute to those of us who do not swallow their poisonous lies. They then try to disprove their own nonsensical claims.
Anybody who subscribes to this kind of swaggering nonsense needs a serious reality check.
Conspiracy Theorists have no cogent alternative theory about how explosives were planted, where flights 77 and 93 are, what happened to the wreckage of whatever is supposed to have hit the pentagon, where the DNA identified remains of passenges from ALL planes is supposed to have come from..... etc
We are supposed to believe that the genius masterminds that arranged this huge conspiracy in order to wage war in Afghanistan and Iraq forgot to make their hijackers Afghanis and Iraqis and worse still they chose real people who were still alive and able to blow the whole thing wide open.
After five years we are still waiting to be shown one single, solitary and irrefutable piece of solid physical evidence that backs up ANY of their claims.
"These are the kind of people who religiiously believe that fire can make solid concrete explode"
As widehead said, nobody claims this except for yourself.
"Even the OWNER agrees WTC 7 was "pulled" by explosives, and openly admitted it,"
And you have no evidence that "pull" has anything to do with explosives. In the same PBS documentary from which that quote comes, demolition experts also refer to "pulling" WTC6, using cables NOT explosives.
There is also evidence that would suggest he was refering to pulling the operation.
You have no evidence to the back up your explosive claim.
"buildings can free-fall collapse into themselves"
When a building has a collapse dbris field of over 500ft, it hasn't collapsed in on itself.
"People who believe that steel can soften completely in air fires are ignorant gullible idiots"
Yet you admitted that the fire in the Windsor building in Madrid (an air fire)reached 600 degrees. That either makes you an idiot, or simply totally wrong.
Blackcat, you have 30 storeys of concrete, steel, furniture and glass falling as one 200 million pound lump on to the rest of the building, what do you think would happen to the 4 inch concrete floor slabs on the floors below?
A 200 million pound wrecking ball
Vs.
A four inch floor slab
lol
by mojo on Thu Oct 12, 06 5:41am
[+]
Well you see FiddleFaddle Bush and Cheney made sure that the building at 72nd street did not collaspe because they knew such an event would reveal the Neo-Con one world,Zionist,Skull and Bones plot to take over the world.
It's a good thing we have people like black cat who know the truth and are willing to share it with the rest of us.
LOL!
First of All the size of the plane and the amount of fuel and the impact it had on the building. Black cat is no engineer and has no clue how a building will colapse when struck by a jet liner.
This small plane did little damage to the building..use your brain.
"Conspiracy Theorists"
why are you still pluralising that? there is only ken here.
Here are the main reasons why I cannot believe that the 9/11 WTC building
collapses were simply due to the aeroplane impact damage, fire and
gravity:
1. Solid structural concrete cannot be weakened by air fires. Concrete has
a very very high melting point (??? varies) and behaves as a masonry or
a solid rock, able to withstand temperatures above 2000 C without cracking
or failing due to temperature. The tensile fracture strength of concrete
is typically over 4000 psi, or ranges between 27 MPa to 42 MPa. If vertical
gravity is considered the main cause of concrete failure for the collapse of
the WTC buildings, consider these well known engineering facts: (1) Under
extreme vertical loading where concrete is compressed beyond its maximum
fracture stress, a solid concrete column or test sample will fail by cracking
along a single plane that is inclined at a 45 angle to the axis of loading.
This fracture plane is known in solid mechanics as the "plane of maximum
shear stress". (2) When concrete fails in this way due to uniaxial vertical
compression, the single solid will divide into two parts each showing cracked
45 degree angled surfaces, but the two remaining parts are still solid and
VERY LITTLE OR NO POWDER IS CREATED. (3) It takes an incredibly large amount
of explosive energy to pulverise solid concrete into fine powder (especially
to create the kinds of giant pyroclastic clouds that blanketed much of New
York on 9/11). Several horizontal clouds of concrete powder are seen and
heard (as captured on all the WTC collapse videos) exploding sideways, out
of the WTC buildings, before the buildings even started falling and moving
downwards. The small horizontal "puffs" cannot be explained as being caused
by trapped air pressure because they occur even before the buildings start
to even move downwards. Also, the positions of many explosions appear very
far below the collapsing levels, exploding sequentially several floors below,
and this cannot be due to trapped air pressure because the ceilings and floors
above have been destroyed with obviously cracked open with giant holes, making
them unable to trap any air and create large air pressure buildups below to
cause those horizontal explosions, especially 10 or 20 floors below the
downward moving collapsing levels. These small horizontal explosions cannot
be explained due to gravitational collapse or fire in the upper levels, but
they are very consistent with what is observed in controlled demolition
operations.
2. If the pancaking effect really did take place, where are the pancakes? Where
are all the large solid slabs of concrete floors that should be left remaining
piled one on top of each other? Why was NOTHING left behind, not even the
huge, super-strong steel core (skeleton) of the WTC Twin Towers, right down
to the ground floor levels? If a higher floor falls and hits the floor below,
it takes time for each collapsing floor to get the floor below to build up
speed, starting from rest, so it can collapse and continue the collapse
sequence, because each solid concrete floor has inertia and takes time to
accelerate. Assuming a free-fall time of 1 second for each floor, with 70+
undamaged floors below the impact zone, it should take over 70 seconds for the
Twin Towers to each collapse. So why did they both collapse in about 10 or 11
seconds each? At almost freefall speeds? Also, the same goes for WTC 7, which
collapsed about 7 hours after the twin towers, but it was not hit by any plane?
3. Fire burns at around Fahrenheit 451 F or about 233 degrees Celcius,
typically around 250 C for black smoke fires. Not enough temperature
to even reduce the strength of steel, due to insufficient oxygen in
normal 101.3 kPa (absolute) air pressure in the open air that we breathe.
If you look at the Strength vs. Temperature graph shown on this page:
911research . wtc7 . net / wtc / analysis / fires / steel.html
Notice that even at red hot temperatures for steel (around 700 C, which
normal fires cannot even reach because they cannot even exceed the
melting point of solid aluminium at 660 c)... steel still has about 40%
of its full strength, so there is NO WAY that both those Twin Towers
can fall at accelerating free-fall speeds, as if all the lower undamaged
and unburned materials converted from full strength to zero strength all
of a sudden. This is scientifically impossible and cannot be explained
due to fire alone. Steel has a melting point of about 1532 C, so even if
steel could soften and weaken in hot fires fed by strong winds, even at
around 600 C, at 50% of its full strength, steel would merely twist and
bend, causing damaged buildings to lean over like a Swiss Army knife being
folded, with the core and perimeter columns all still intact and joined.
Why is it that almost ALL of the large steel columns photographed at the
WTC Ground Zero site show clear signs of being sliced at 45 to 60 angles,
with black solidified (once molten) metal appearing along its sliced edges?
(Something very typical of steel columns sliced by controlled demolitions)
Don't forget that solid iron is widely used for many applications
involving direct explosure to high pressure and/or high temperature flames.
eg. internal combustion engines, pistons & engine blocks are made of iron
materials, steam engine boilers hold in a large amount of steam pressure
while exposed to fire, cooking pots and frying pans made of steel and
aluminium suffer no major weakening problems when exposed to fire and gas
stove flames, barbeque grills and hotplates do not display and weakness or
any noticeable strength loss when exposed to air fires. It is also
difficult, if not impossible, to melt solid aluminium into liquid molten
metal in a fuel fed still air fire (melting point of aluminium, 660 C).
4. The large pools of once-molten hot metal found in the basements, indicates
that at some time the metal beams were exposed to temperatures well above
the melting point of iron (1532 C), which is impossible for fuel air fires
burning for only a short period of time, since most of the fuel from the
jet planes was consumed in the initial fireballs and explosions when the
planes impacted with the towers. Black or dark smoke flames indicate low
temperature flames, typically below 300 C, and these were seen burning in
both twin tower buildings for about an hour or more before their collapses.
It could not have been very hot in those twin towers, because people could
be seen through those large impact holes on the sides of the building, some
appear alive and well and waving to television cameras. For people to be
alive and walking around in temperatures over 1000 C (to cause the steel to
become very weak), is ridiculous and impossible. Dr Steven Jones has also
pointed out that these hot temperatures in the basements persisted for over
6-weeks after September 11, 2001, something that an air fire fed by a very
limited amount of jet fuel, most of which was burned up in the initial
fireball explosions, cannot possibly accomplish. Read his latest paper at:
scholarsfor 911truth. org / Why Indeed Did the World Trade Center Buildings Completely Collapse. pdf
911research. com /sept11/ evidence. html
911research. com /wtc/ evidence/ rubblefires. html
911research. com /wtc/ evidence/ moltensteel. html
5. All 3 WTC buildings collapsed vertically, into themselves, and at close to
free-fall speeds, as if the lower materials displayed zero strength or were
not even there to help slow down the collapses, all of a sudden. Engineering
materials do not display full strength and convert to zero strength all of a
sudden, for no reason, especially for the steel and concrete in the lower
levels that were not affected by fires or structural damage. It is also
interesting to note, that for straight-down collapses to occur, ALL the core
and perimeter columns (and/or concrete pillars) of a highrise building must
fail SIMULTANEOUSLY and symmetrically to prevent the buildings from leaning
or bending over sideways, which could lead to neighbouring buildings being
severely damaged. Watching super strong steel and concrete buildings falling
downwards into themselves at free fall speeds, after about an hour delay
period after they were initially damaged, is like chopping a tree, setting it
on fire at the point where you weakened it, waiting about an hour, and then
watching it all disintegrate into fine sawdust and woodchips from the top,
all the way down to the roots, at free fall speeds. And the WTC steel and
concrete is even far stronger than wood and are fireproof materials!
6. How could fire alone create large explosions and minor earthquakes of 2.0 and 2.1
magnitude, just prior to the collapses of all 3 WTC buildings?
7. There are many eyewitness reports and videos showing several explosions
and demolition squibbs occuring around those 3 WTC buildings before they
collapsed. Even on the 9/11 Movie, just before the North Tower collapsed,
you can see and hear explosions (bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang sounds)
erupting before the North Tower collapsed. Several videos showing the WTC
collapses can be seen at:
8. WEBSITES SHOWING ACTUAL VIDEOS OF THE WTC COLLAPSES (remove spaces):
video . google . com / videoplay? docid= -670819007 1483512003
plaguepuppy . net / public_html /collapse%20update/
seeloosechange . com
prisonplanet . com (Click on 9/11 Archives)
9. Why would the WTC Lease Owner, Mr Larry Silverstein, admit openly on the PBS
Documentary "America Rebuilds" these exact words just after the Narrator was
discussing the collapse of Building 7 (the one that was not hit by any plane,
but it suffered from 2 small fires)... Silverstein slipped up and said:
"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander telling me that they were not sure they would be able to contain the fire; and I said, 'You know, we've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is PULL IT, and they made that decision to PULL and then we watched the building collapse."
The word "PULL" means "demolish with explosives" in the controlled demolition industry.
Even the actual owner agrees that the WTC 7 collapse was caused by controlled demolition!
So the question is: If it takes several days, often over a week, to plan and rig a large
47-story skyscraper like WTC 7 full of explosives, then how could they have done all this
in the short 6 hours after the Twin Towers collapsed, when the air was still full of
concrete and asbestos dust and WTC 7 was still on fire? How? WTC 7 was already ready
and rigged to be demolished long before September 11, 2001, indicating an INSIDE JOB...
There is just so much scientific evidence that disproves the original 9/11 stories.
In fact, none of the "assumptions" about concrete being converted to powder and
steel melting in air fires can even be proven in scientific experiments. So those
who still believe in the "Official" mass-media version of what happened on September
11, 2001, will have a hard time trying to give good explanations for the above facts
which point to deliberate pre-planted explosives and cutting charges present in
the 3 WTC buildings... explosives that were planted there long before the planes
even hit the twin towers on 9/11... causing the deaths of 2,749 civilians who were
mass-murdered on 9/11.
. Dr Steven Jones has also
pointed out that these hot temperatures in the basements persisted for over
6-weeks after September 11, 2001, something that an air fire fed by a very
limited amount of jet fuel, most of which was burned up in the initial
fireball explosions, cannot possibly accomplish. Read his latest paper at:
scholarsfor 911truth. org / Why Indeed Did the World Trade Center Buildings Completely Collapse. pdf
911research. com /sept11/ evidence. html
911research. com /wtc/ evidence/ rubblefires. html
911research. com /wtc/ evidence/ moltensteel. html
The orange hot (about 940 C) once-molten metal, still raging with fires, trapped in the basements beneath the rubble at ground zero, stayed sizzling hot at over 700 to 1100 C for over 6 weeks after the WTC buildings collapsed on 9/11, despite a huge amount of water used to cool down the hot steel.
img. photobucket. com/ albums/ v705/ neomp5/ pastepaste. jpg
"Solid structural concrete cannot be weakened by air fires"
No, but the steel frame holding it all together can be.
"If the pancaking effect really did take place, where are the pancakes?"
Your assumptions about how the debris should have looked or should have collapsed are nothing but speculation and an argument from ignorance. Just because you don't understand or accept the exlanation is your problem NOT a problem with the explanation.
"Fire burns at around Fahrenheit 451 F or about 233 degrees Celcius,
typically around 250 C for black smoke fires."
No, no, no, no. This is high school stuff. Fires burn at different temperatures depending on the fuel source, oxygen availibilty, air pressure.... Even the most mentally challenged can accept that even the same fuels can burn at different temperatures (Bunsen Burner anyone?).
"The large pools of once-molten hot metal found in the basements..."
... are contraindications of demolition. Explain how short-lived demolition charges produce this effect - they don't.
"All 3 WTC buildings collapsed vertically, into themselves,"
And the surrounding area...
"...at close to
free-fall speeds"
And? Your point is?
"materials do not display full strength and convert to zero strength all of a
sudden, for no reason"
Pathetic. Did the lower part of either of the towers collapse before the weight of the falling portion reached it? Did WTC7 collapse for no reason - or was their a 20 storey hole in the side and a raging inferno within?
"How could fire alone create large explosions and minor earthquakes of 2.0 and 2.1
magnitude, just prior to the collapses of all 3 WTC buildings?"
Good point. Shame no one except you is making it.
"There are many eyewitness reports and videos showing several explosions
and demolition squibbs"
No, there isn't.
"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander telling me that they were not sure they would be able to contain the fire..."
Ah, so there was a fire large enough not to be able to be contained. Must have been quite large - large enough to set off any supposed demolition charges.
"The word "PULL" means "demolish with explosives" in the controlled demolition industry."
No it doesn't. It means attach cables and literally pull it down.
"There is just so much scientific evidence that disproves the original 9/11 stories."
There is not one piece of scientific evidence that disproves the official explanation.
It doesn't matter if you look at the twin towers, WTC7, the pentagon or flight 93. There is not a single shred of solid physical evidence that supports the conspiracy theorists.
Speculation, anomaly hunting, incredulity and ignorance are not evidence.
Blackcat. Are you incapable of giving short comments?
And you may like to read other peoples comments before repeating your same points that have previously been refuted.
1. "Solid structural concrete cannot be weakened by air fires"
No one claims this. You just make this point up. It was the steel that was weakened by fire.
2. "If the pancaking effect really did take place, where are the pancakes?
Why would expect to see the 4 inch floor slabs intact after bieng pounded by hundreds of million of pound of debris?
"Why was NOTHING left behind, not even the huge, super-strong steel core"
It was left behind, it was left standing for about 15 seconds after the floors collapsed, and was then left covering huge areas of ground zero.
3. "Fire burns at around Fahrenheit 451 F or about 233 degrees Celcius"
YOu admitted on another ballot that the temperature in the Windsore building reached 600 degrees(an office fire). And we have already seen the melted and twisted columns in WTC5 - a standard office fire.
5. "All 3 WTC buildings collapsed vertically, into themselves, and at close to
free-fall speeds"
Firstly they didn't collapse into themselves, each tower had a 500ft debris field and the Soouth Twoer clearly started leaning to the side.
If you count the collapse of the cores in those towers, it was way over free fall speed.
If you include the collapse of the penthouse in WTC7, that was also way over freefall speed.
9. "Why would the WTC Lease Owner, Mr Larry Silverstein, admit..."
You have no evidence that "pull" refers to explosives.
The FDNY don't demolish buildings.
If they were refering to demolition it would be the use of demolition cables.
Silverstein wouldn't have just "slipped up". It wasn't a live interview, the lines would have been scripted and Silverstein could have redone the scene had he not been happy with it.
Blackcat, please read these answers this time rather than repeating your same rubbish again and again.
why are you still pretending this isn't ken? look at the picture i posted. he pastes his arguments, just like his other accounts.
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