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COMMENTS:
Voted : No, despite the right's opposition, the U.S. still has free speech
idiots. i guess they forget that at the holiday season the message of "peace on earth, good will toward men" is all over the place. morons. whats funny is how could any christian be opposed to a symbol of peace, particularly at christmas time. don't they see the irony in their actions?
"If she doesn't like the subdivision's rules she should move."
CI:
The governing committee ruled that it wasn't a violation of the rules, so Bush... uh, I mean, Kearns issued a signing statement... uh, I mean, fired them and acted like a dictator. Sounds to me like Kearns is acting out a personal vendetta.
And no one has to abide by policy that is illegal or unconstitutional. That's why we have a constitution: to prevent petty dictators from imposing their personal prejudices on the rest of us. Too bad even the greatest constitution ever written can't always prevent that.
Voted : No, despite the right's opposition, the U.S. still has free speech
I'm glad she's standing up to these bullies and hope that she continues to fight it as long as she needs to, for principle's sake. We must protect our right to free speech.
I hope everyone who reads this is still so proud of their freedom.
by Jyl on Mon Nov 27, 06 11:48am
[+]
Voted : No, despite the right's opposition, the U.S. still has free speech
Fascist scrooges
Give me a break that's not a seasonal symbol. It's a political statement. If she takes it to court I bet she loses.
^It's the same reason why you don't see Christmas wreaths at Anti-war rallies.
Voted : No, despite the right's opposition, the U.S. still has free speech
I guess it never dawned on them is that they're so-called children are fight for the right of self-expression.
God Bless us, everyone
It's clear that she broke the rules after she was told and she refused to take it down. She gets what she deserves. No different that someone putting up a pro-war sign or symbol. No sign means so sign. You don't like it, leave.
No sign means *no sign
he he - Had to vote for this one because it's so funny
CI:
"Peace" is political statement?
How subversive.
And she was told by a rightwing vigilante, who overthrew the will of the homeowner's association. Kind of like how Bush claimed he was invading Iraq on behalf of the United Nations, while the United Nations was saying: "No, you're not."
And if it went to court, I bet she would win.
And when a bully is violating your rights, one option is to stand your ground.
It sound like Bush... uh, I mean Kearns, is the one breaking the rules. I guess he should leave. At the very least, he should be forced to vacate the office of president of the homeowners association. I wonder if Kearns could be impeached?
Or she can pay the 25.00 a day--I'm sure their are many groups that would be happy to pay the fine for her.
Cranky, you know she's making a political statement just as much as anyone reading this. Which is why some are going with the "free speech" argument. Problem with that is that her complex doesn't allow signs of any kind. Its pretty simple. She choose to ignore the rules. I guess those rules don't apply to her, right?
Just because the symbol is peace doesn't make it right, likewise a symbol that you don't like (for example a cross or a nazi symbol) doesn't make it wrong. Its still a sign which aren't allowed.
Since when has peace on Earth been considered offensive? She should have every right to stiff 'em on the fines.
It has nothing to do with being offensive.
It has nothing to do with being offensive or non-offensive.
Voted : Yes, if allowed to stay up, the terrorists will have won
I'm voting this way as a joke.
The peace symbol really came into vogue with the Vietnam war protests. In that sense it is a political symbol. You might think that people would have moved on and just considered it a generic "peace on earth" symbol, but apparently not.
You would think people had better things to worry about at x-mas. Like the homeless, the hungry, etc. Apparently not.
what does this have to do with Bush?
by aya on Mon Nov 27, 06 2:58pm
[+]
Voted : No, despite the right's opposition, the U.S. still has free speech
 ...ohhhh! am I in trouble???
CI:
"Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members."
Since you are taking a legalistic approach, the governing committee ruled it wasn't a sign, but Kearns engaged in a coup de tat.
So, according to the homeowners association, it wasn't a sign. It's that simple. She wasn't breaking any rules.
Looks to me like it was Kearns who was breaking the rules and it looks to me like it was Kearns who was engaged in politically motivated behavior. Or don't coup de tats by petty suburban tyrants, who are obviously politically motivated, bother you?
Voted : Aww..fer crying out LOUD!
Where'd you guys hide that head-bangin' wall?
cranky
He over-ruled them similar to what a judge can do to a jury.
" will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."
It's clearly a sign (a sign for peace) and its clearly divisive. He did the right thing, she didn't.
Voted : If she doesn't like the subdivision's rules she should move
it has nothing to do with the freedom of speech, what she needs to do is to follow the rules of the law, and make it work for her.
when a guy was prevented from keeping his horses on his property, he started a pig farm, which HOA didn't have rules against.
Madonna once painted her house purple, just to piss off the Beverly Hills city ordinance against expansion of her house.
by LCD on Mon Nov 27, 06 4:08pm
[+]
If we have "Peace on Earth," the terrorists win!
the fact that so many people are agreeing that a peace symbol is divisive is really disturbing.
And to the one who says Christian stuff wouldn't be welcomed at a Peace Rally, I hope you know what utter bull that is.. ANYTHING is welcomed at a peace rally.
by Jyl on Mon Nov 27, 06 4:41pm
[+]
Jyl
1. "peace symbol is divisive is really disturbing". That lady may not have meant it as a political statement but some may have took it that way possibly causing a divisive situation (which it did) This is why they created the rule to being with.
2. "Christian stuff wouldn't be welcomed at a Peace Rally, it would be"
My point was the reason you don't see Christmas wreaths or Christmas trees or people dressed as Santa Claus at anti-war rallies is they are not interchangeable with peace symbols.
A symbols meaning can evolve over time. The swastika had been used for 3000 years in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and by Native Americans. Th Nazis much later turned it into a political symbol.
Now when we see it we can only think of it's one meaning.
The CND or "peace symbol" as we know it now started off as a
Nuclear Disarmament symbol and later generalised to become an icon of the 1960s anti-war movement.
It sounds like there are some very controlling people out there.
Controlling being the key word.
Christmas is about Jesus Christ right?
And warm happy times.. shyt like that?
I'm ashamed to share this planet with most people lately. This is pitiful Hell and I'm truly sorry for you all.
by Jyl on Mon Nov 27, 06 7:15pm
[+]
Does anyone disagree that its a sign which caused divisiveness?
I do. If that wreath had had a cross in the middle instead of a peace sign no one would have suggested that it be removed, yet a cross is just as much a sign as the peach symbol.
If you ask me, it's corrupt, bullying homeowners association leader Kearns who is causing the divisiveness.
And if the only people who objected were the religious extremists who saw the peace symbol as a sign of Satan, should it have been removed?
If a Muslim family saw a cross on someone's house and objected, would that have been divisive enough for the homeowner's association to demand that this "sign" be taken down?
In virtually all cases, zero tolerance means zero intelligence.
So, if one person feels offended by a Christmas wreath, it should be taken down?
How many conservatives buy into the argument that a discriminatory environment exists just because one member of a minority group feels it to be a hostile environment?
Same thing.
the people who hung the wreath aren't the ones being divisive
by Jyl on Tue Nov 28, 06 7:22am
[+]
cranky
So you're saying that that peace sign wasn't divisive but even here it can't be agreed on. Just because you agree with the message of peace doesn't make it right. Save the whales, love one another, whatever the message is they don't allow it. No signs means no signs. Why is that difficult for you to understand?
Jyl "the people who hung the wreath aren't the ones being divisive
". If there was no restictions to hanging signs then you are right. Since there was then it was the person hanging the peace sign that caused the divisiveness. No sign or no restrictions then no divisiveness.
Would anyone be surprised to to find out the anti-war movment wished to pay her fines?
This news makes me Ashamed.
Fighting about peace is another shame, and I will not take part in it anymore.
Here's a silly Jesus quote since it's his holiday:
"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God"
by Jyl on Tue Nov 28, 06 8:39am
[+]
One question to anyone that read this artical.
Why did it mention "Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq"?
Why even mention it? Because there is an obvious connection and anyone reading it can make the connection (if they allow themselves).
Think of all the problems that could have been solved by moving somewhere else if you don't like the rules. Segregation, restrictions on where Jews could live and go to college, and so on. So there's no such thing as a bad rule or law. Just go somewhere else.
skylab
And the other extreme to your arguement is if you don't like the rules and laws simply ignore them because they don't apply to you. These are both extreme statements that don't apply to this article.
She broke a rule and instead of making "peace" she thumbed her nose at it and ignored it. Nice neighbor.
She didn't break a rule.
"Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, BUT MEMBERS REFUSED AFTER CONCLUDING THAT IT WAS MERELY A SEASONAL SYMBOL THAT DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING."
That's American democracy.
"Kearns fired all five committee members."
That's rightwing corruption and dictatorship.
I prefer democracy.
Voted : Aww..fer crying out LOUD!
Remember when Xmas was about "Peace on Earth and Good Will towards men"?!?
no politics here (eyes rolling)
Pro-Peace Symbol Forces Win Battle in Colorado Town
By KIRK JOHNSON
DENVER, Nov. 28 — Peace is fighting back in Pagosa Springs.
Last week, a couple were threatened with fines of $25 a day by their homeowners’ association unless they removed a four-foot wreath shaped like a peace symbol from the front of their house.
The fines have been dropped, and the three-member board of the association has resigned, according to an e-mail message sent to residents on Monday.
Two board members have disconnected their telephones, apparently to escape the waves of callers asking what the board could have been thinking, residents said. The third board member, with a working phone, did not return a call for comment.
In its original letter to the couple, Lisa Jensen and Bill Trimarco, the association said some neighbors had found the peace symbol politically “divisive.”
A board member later told a newspaper that he thought the familiar circle with angled lines was also, perhaps, a sign of the devil.
The peace symbol came to prominence in the late 1950s as the logo for the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament, a British antiwar group, according to the group’s Web site. It incorporates the semaphore flag images for the letters in the group’s name, a “D” atop an “N.”
Other people have said the upright line with arms angled down, commonplace in the United States in the Vietnam War, especially, has roots in the early Christian era, representing a twisted or broken cross.
Mr. Trimarco said he put up the wreath as a general symbol of peace on earth, not as a commentary on the Iraq war or another political statement.
In any case, there are now more peace symbols in Pagosa Springs, a town of 1,700 people 200 miles southwest of Denver, than probably ever in its history.
On Tuesday morning, 20 people marched through the center carrying peace signs and then stomped a giant peace sign in the snow perhaps 300 feet across on a soccer field, where it could be easily seen.
“There’s quite a few now in our subdivision in a show of support,” Mr. Trimarco said.
A former president of the Loma Linda community, where Mr. Trimarco lives, said Tuesday that he had stepped in to help form an interim homeowners’ association.
The former president, Farrell C. Trask, described himself in a telephone interview as a military veteran who would fight for anyone’s right to free speech, peace symbols included.
Town Manager Mark Garcia said Pagosa Springs was building its own peace wreath, too. Mr. Garcia said it would be finished by late Tuesday and installed on a bell tower in the center of town. (NY Times)
It should be taken down, period.
The wreath should be taken down whether it is a swastika, peace sign, shaped like a cross, or any other politically/ideologically driven symbol.
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