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COMMENTS:
I think these opinions exist. Human nature being what it is, I don't think atheists are better or worse than any other group, although it's not for me.
because of AA
The American Declaration of Independence states:
"...assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,..."
It goes on,
"...that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--..."
And in conclusion,
"...the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions,..."
Seems rather consistent, don't it?
Atheism is incongruent with the {Christian} values incorperated into America's founding body.
This is just my opinion on the ballot question. Not a reflection of my belief that people should be free to believe whatever they want. I have equal respect for ALL PEOPLE indiscriminate of personal beliefs.
"Has the work some athiests have done to push God and religious morality out of the public eye hurt the opinion of all athiests as a whole?"
I think so.
"Have Americans also come to the conclusion that, by denouncing religion, athiests are also denouncing morality, truth, and the very ideals that are woven into the fabric of the United States history?"
Although some may, as a whole I dont think so.
What many are afraid of is not their opinions or their morality. It's the desire of many of them to take religion completely out of American society.
There are a great many atheists who could care less about the Christian culture in this country. But there are also some very vocal ones who, if they had their way, would see to it that nothing even remotely resembling religion would be allowed to be shown in public.
Then there's the tough-guy "I'm smarter than you are because I don't believe in fairy tales" attitude that's a big turn off.
I also think that most Americans get tired of this idea that some athiests have that religion offends them, and that because of this, anything religious in the public eye should immediately be removed.
It is said that less than 1% of Americans are athiests. I find a good portion of athiests to be offensive on this website because of their psuedo intellectual superiority, and their unlimited willingness to lump anyone who is Christian or who stands up for their beliefs as a NEOCON, ready to be subjected to their 'better than thou' mentality.
And if you believe that I'm doing the same thing, lumping all B&W athiests into one group? Well, now you know how it feels :)
Voted : Human Nature
It's human nature to distrust those who are not only members of an "other" group but are also much more intelligent.
Passiveson. The word "Creator" in the Declaration of Independence is not a specific reference to a Christian God. It leaves it open to interpretation to apply to all citzens belief of who their creator is.
The original American immigrants were fleeing religious persecution.
To have said the Creator to be the Christian god would be applying the same descrimination the people were fleeing.
Just as the Supreme Judge of the World. It doesn't say "Christian Judge." It means the judge whoever you believe it to be.
That way it applies to all people of all beliefs.
STOP TRYING TO CRAM CHRISTIANITY DOWN THE THROATS OF EVERYBODY.
Conservative christians are the most self righteous and obnoxious of all Christians.
GO AWAY!
Religion/God is a drive in humans, like the sex drive. Telling people there is no god is like telling them they should all become celibate. That's bound to generate some unpopularity.
And there is nothing particularly more intelligent about being an athiest than there is about being a eunuch.
And this guy looks really intelligent.
It loooks like they've said "no" to Intelligent Dress as well.
I think the photo is a fake made by fundy Christians to use as propaganda. Or maybe not.
They don't trust atheists because atheists are the ones being held responsible for undermining the Christians influence in America. Atheists are responsible for the removal of the Lords Prayer in the classroom and replacing it with lessons of evolution. They've discredited the bible by showing the realities of science ala the sun doesn't revolve around the earth, the earth isn't 6000 years old etc). To top it off atheists can't be threatened by Christians with "my god is gonna get you for this". It must be frustrating for Christians.
Mr_Sheepy
You're right about the guys image being altered. If you copy the image and zoom in you'll notice his top lip was dragged up and it pulled the bottom lip upwards too.
Wonder why they felt a need to make the guy look like a dork?
"Atheism is incongruent with the {Christian} values incorperated into America's founding body."
infidels. org/ news/ atheism/ extra/ founding- fathers. html
Grapost your reaction to the question in hand doesn't make sense, and if you are athiest, your response is a perfect example of why athiests are so mistrusted.
This isn't a ballot about christianity, it's a ballot discussing why athiests are the most mistrusted group in the United States. Blaming that opinion on those who are not athiest is really passing the buck.
"STOP TRYING TO CRAM CHRISTIANITY DOWN THE THROATS OF EVERYBODY"
Versus what, athiests going to bat with the ACLU to continually infringe upon what the vast majority of the United States believes? Who is REALLY 'cramming their beliefs' down everyone elses throats, hmm?
"Conservative christians are the most self righteous and obnoxious of all Christians"
Uh, the vast majority of christians are conservative, and they are hardly obnoxious.
Gradpost, you're really stretching here. I'm not cramming anything. The founding fathers were Christian. I cede your point but don't leave the realms of reality just to be a jerk huh?
I offer my opinion. You don't agree, offer a better one. What's with the rant?
My reasoning is valid. Your's one the other hand is not. Did you take your medication this morning?
Oh, and grad, I never claimed to be a Christian, Did I?
^So are you religious and if so which one did you settle with?
"The original American immigrants were fleeing religious persecution.
To have said the Creator to be the Christian god would be applying the same descrimination the people were fleeing".
Nonsense. Don't slant history with disinformation. The earliest colonists were seperatists Christians convicted and deported to the English Colonies in America for defying the Monarchy and the rule of the Papacy. They were persecuted for their Seperatist Christian beliefs, not because they weren't 'Christians'.
Many religious groups (such as the Quakers and Puritans) formed the first 13 colonies on the basis of their religious beliefs.
Scholars now identify a high level of religious energy in colonies after 1700. According to one expert, religion was in the "ascension rather than the declension"; another sees a "rising vitality in religious life" from 1700 onward; a third finds religion in many parts of the colonies in a state of "feverish growth." Figures on church attendance and church formation support these opinions. Between 1700 and 1740, an estimated 75 to 80 percent of the population attended churches, which were being built at a headlong pace. SRC: Library of Congress.
"Conservative christians are the most self righteous and obnoxious of all Christians".
Are you refering to me? LOL That's rich, my friend. How ignorantly presumptuous. And you base this on the Historic record I posted on the Declaration of independence. Elaborate on what you think you know about me, please?
ClosetIguana, I'm a realist. I adhere to no peticular religious dogma and find value in the history and lore across diverse cultures and ideologies. I respect all people for5 their uniqueness and beliefs. I won't be classified by Gradpost or any other self rightious narcissist.
Sorry Japy, Won't continue this in your forum my friend.
many of the "founding fathers" were not only not christian, they were downright anti-christian. and they all agreed that they did not want the church to effect the government, or the government to effect the church.
^Incorrect, my friend. I don't know where you get your information but do your research please before saying something so incredulous.
http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html
What a waste of time!!
passiveson
"I'm a realist. I adhere to no peticular religious dogma and find value in the history and lore across diverse cultures and ideologies."
Here here!
i already gave you a link.
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved--the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not." - James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
"I wish it (Christianity) were more productive of good works ... I mean real good works ... not holy-day keeping, sermon-hearing ... or making long prayers, filled with flatteries and compliments despised by wise men, and much less capable of pleasing the Deity." - Benjamin Franklin Works, Vol. VII, p. 75
"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson, from "Notes on Virginia"
and my favourite, which just about sums up my way of life:
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787
another i just found on a different page:
“Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause. I had hoped that liberal and enlightened thought would have reconciled the Christians so that their religious fights would not endanger the peace of Society.” -George Washington, Letter to Sir Edward Newenham, June 22, 1792
But how does one lay blame upon Christians or even religion for the ills of society? Isn't it the LIBIGOTS who are so quick to blame christians for all that is wrong in the United States, yet LIBIGOTS argue so hard that it's not Islam's fault that radical muslims are responsible for some 80% of all armed conflict around the world?
Seems like a double standard if you ask me.
And neoth, I don't know that they are 'anti christian' based on what you posted there.
They seem to take much the same view as I do. I consider myself Christian but I recognize the dangers of misintended power in the name of my religion and I abhore some of the actions for that reason.
When Bush talked about God when going to war with Iraq, it frustrated me greatly, because how are we better if we use that for a reason?
of course it's a double standard. one standard for the primitive, backwards, immorral teachings of religion, and another for when those teachings are twisted, exaggerated, and perverted to justify barbaric acts completely in contradiction to the only parts of religion that have any real value, their moral teachings.
also a different standard for islam, which compared to other religions, abrahamic or otherwise, is incredibly consistent in it's moral standards, but again in complete opposition of the things it's used to justify. only buddhism is more consistent in it's morality, but it is not, and cannot be used to justify barbaric acts of harm. and it happens to be the only mainstream ATHEISTIC religion out there. coincidence?
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