COMMENTS:
I'm not entirely convinced he's even alive. For a person who used every opportunity to gain personal fame in the Muslim world based on his terrorist exploits, isn't it odd that he is so completely out of the limelight now?
And yes, I know 1) Al Quaida has released some grainy supposedly 'new' videos of him and 2) it's hard to make new videos when you are the most hunted man on earth.
I really do wonder if he is alive or not.
Voted : Yes
his dialysis failed some time ago
by mojo on Fri Dec 08, 06 2:10pm
[+]
Keeping the image of him alive is more important for the terrorist cause than the man himself. If he had died it would be crucial to keep the world from knowing, so there is a good chance he is dead and it is being hidden.
There's not reason to believe that he's dead and not involved with the planning of more attacks. Disregarding him is how we got into this mess to begin with.
Voted : He's been dead since December 10th 2001, how many hints do you need?
... and the reluctant behind closed doors acceptance that he is indeed dead....
Ken_from_Dublin
If proof is coming from you then that's all I need.
The FBI's "Most Wanted Terrorists" web page does not state that Bin Laden is wanted for the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.
When asked why there is no mention of 9/11 on the FBI's web page, Rex Tomb, the FBI's Chief of Investigative Publicity, is reported to have said, "The reason why 9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden's Most Wanted page is because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11."
"On September 20, 2001," according to the Guardian, "the Taliban offered to hand Osama bin Laden to a neutral Islamic country for trial if the US presented them with evidence that he was responsible for the attacks on New York and Washington. The US rejected the offer."
On September 23, 2001 the BBC reported that four (now at least seven -Ken) of the hijack "suspects" - Waleed Al Shehri, Abdulaziz Al Omari, Saeed Alghamdi, and possibly Khalid Al Midhar - were alive, and that FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged "the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt."
Bin Laden, in a September 28, 2001 interview with the Pakistani newspaper Ummat, is reported to have said: "I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States."
Skeptics dismiss the video tape "found in a house in Jalalabad", Afghanistan, which allegedly shows Bin Laden confessing to the September 11 attacks. In a December 20, 2001, broadcast by German TV channel Das Erste "two independent translators and an expert on oriental studies found the White House's translation not only to be inaccurate, but manipulative."
FBI Director Robert Mueller, in a speech at the Commonwealth Club on April 19, 2002, said: "In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper - either here in the United States, or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere - that mentioned any aspect of the September 11 plot."
In fact there are no Arab names on the partial list of passengers on the 9/11 flights. A final list is not available.
Yet on September 12, 2001 ABC News reported that "investigators have identified all the hijackers". Among those identified was "Satan Suqami, a Saudi national on American Airlines Flight 11, whose passport was recovered in the rubble."
The evidence against Bin Laden, promised by Secretary of State Colin Powell on September 23, 2001, has yet to be made available to the public.
Jeez that was quick Closet, you must be standing vigil at your pc, lame repostes as usual, here's more folks.....
You will probably not know this because of US sponsored media censorship but Osama Bin Laden has from the very day of the 9/11 denied any involvement in the attacks, in an interview shortly after the massacre he had this to say -
I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States.
As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie.
I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act.
Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people.
Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.
There are intelligence agencies in the U.S., which require billions of dollars worth of funds from the Congress and the government every year.
This was not a big problem till the existence of the former Soviet Union but after that the budget of these agencies has been in danger.
They needed an enemy.
So, they first started propaganda against Usama and Taleban and then this incident happened. rnrnYou see, the Bush Administration approved a budget of 40 billion dollars.
Where will this huge amount go?
It will be provided to the same agencies, which need huge funds and want to exert their importance.
Now they will spend the money for their expansion and for increasing their importance.
I will give you an example.
Drug smugglers from all over the world are in contact with the U.S. secret agencies.
These agencies do not want to eradicate narcotics cultivation and trafficking because their importance will be diminished.
The people in the U.S. Drug Enforcement Department are encouraging drug trade so that they could show performance and get millions of dollars worth of budget.
General Noriega was made a drug baron by the CIA and, in need, he was made a scapegoat.
What is this?
Is it not that there exists a government within the government in the United States?
That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks.' (PNAC - Ken)
-Osama Bin Laden
Voted : He's been dead since December 10th 2001, how many hints do you need?
My point exactly. Dead men don't plan. Well, *he* does, but on how to get out of the corner of Hell he's occupying.
Yes, that ONE notice in an obscure paper proves it. Absolutely no physical evidence whatsoever. Not that this matters to the conspiracy NUT jobs.
Truthseeker013
What are you basing him being dead?
Voted : Not sure
I don't know. I don't think it matters much.
^Would it matter if he is planning another attack?
I think there's a good chance he's dead. He was pretty old, and living in the mountains can't be good for your health. Plus with all those bombs we dropped one may have gotten lucky.
But I guess he could be alive, but keeping a low profile for fear of his life. Or his organization has been so thoroughly dismantled that he can't do anything but hide.
^Do you believe the tapes and videos that the FBI authenticated were real?
^ Don't know. Tapes are easy to fake, and it's not like the FBI/CIA had alot of face to face contact with the guy lately. They could be real, could be fake, I'm not saying definitively either way.
Herzog
I've been through this before with you. How do you fool a spectrograph?
Closet: how do you proove beyond all doubt that a person on tape or film is who he claims he is, and not a skilled imposter?
herzog
You can impersonate a persons appearance and voice but it's impossible to trick a spectrograph. There is your proof the tapes were real. Now, you could say these recordings/tapes were made a long time ago but in select tapes he make reference to certain events.
For example the tape relese April 15, 2004 mentions the 2004 Madrid Train Bombings. You could say well he planned that in 2000 and they held the tapes behind. I can give you numerous examples. It comes to a point where you have to believe what the experts believe not the conspiracy theoriests.
My quetion to you is would it have been ok for Clinton's supporters, CIA, whomever to believe Bin Ladin was dead after Clinton tried to take him out in '98? Of course not and Clinton didn't.
" You can impersonate a persons appearance and voice but it's impossible to trick a spectrograph."
Of course it's possible, nothing is infallible. Besides which the quality of all the tapes was poor, even with movie theatre quality productions you can't prove it beyond all doubt.
And like I said, I'm not claiming with certainty that he is dead, or alive, just that it seems likely he has kicked the bucket.
And if clinton had claimed bin laden were dead after he bombed an aspirin factory I'd call him a liar. Largely because bin laden kept a high profile after the event.
But a series of bombing campaigs, followed by silence mixed only with poorly made (and easily faked) videos, would suggest that this 50 year old on dialysis living with cavemen is no long amongst the living.
Herzog
"Of course it's possible, nothing is infallible." Timetravel may be possible too but it hasn't been achieved yet niether has tricking a
spectrograph.
"Besides which the quality of all the tapes was poor, even with movie theatre quality productions you can't prove it beyond all doubt."
You don't understand the principles behind a spectrograph. How the wavelength is recorded has no barrings with it's physical properties. Are you following me?
Now you could say they spliced in the voice from previous recording and had the "actor" lipsynced the speeches. If that is what you believe, then you my friend have morphed into Ken from Dublin.
He's long dead. Coldcircuit has Osama's funeral notice on his user page.
Voted : No
There is no proof and no good reason to assume he's dead (aside from cognitive dissonance). If he's not dead, there is no doubt in my mind that he and his followers are planning the next attacks as we speak. Hopefully I'm wrong, but it is vital for the security of our countries to operate under the assumption that more attacks are being formulated. Absent any conclusive evidence, we cannot afford to risk complacency.
In other words, it's much better to be prepared for the worst and have nothing happen than to be unprepared and have something happen.
{There is no proof and no good reason to assume he's dead ..
by Applerod on Sat Dec 09, 06 12:42am}
Only if you stick your head in the sand, put your finegrs in your ears, and says "I'm gonna pretend he's alive no matter what you say! Nanananah!" and other childish behaviour.
1~ Osama bin Laden is NOT on the FBI most wanted list in connection with 911. Why not? According to FBI spokesman, Chief of Investigative Publicity Rex Tomb, “The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.”
2~ Osama bin Laden is long D E A D. He died on the 16th December 2001, and this was reported throughout Asia and the Middle East about ten days later. Some members of his family attended his funeral in Afghanistan. He died from kidney failure and a lung infection.
According to the Pakistani press, and the Egyptian newspaper, al-Wafd, (Wednesday, December 26, 2001 Vol 15 No 4633) Bin Laden died in December 2001 of pulmonary complications incident to catastrophic kidney failure, in the absence of available hygienic dialysis.
The Egyptian newspaper al-Wafd published an article dated Wednesday, December 26, 2001, (Vol 15 No 4633) describing bin Laden's funeral:
"News of Bin Laden's Death and Funeral 10 days ago
ISLAMABAD - A prominent official in the Afghan Taleban movement announced yesterday the death of Osama bin Laden, the chief of al-Qa'da organization, stating that binLaden suffered serious complications in the lungs and died a natural and quiet death. The official, who asked to remain anonymous, stated to The Observer of Pakistan that he had himself attended the funeral of bin Laden and saw his face prior to burial in Tora Bora 10 days ago. He mentioned that 30 of al-Qa'da fighters attended the burial as well as members of his family and some friends from the Taleban. ..."
Israeli intelligence: Bin Laden is dead, heir has been chosen TEL AVIV - Osama Bin Laden appears to be dead but his colleagues have decided that Al Qaida and its insurgency campaign against the United States will continue, Israeli intelligence sources said. The Israeli sources said Israel and the United States assess that Bin Laden probably died in the U.S. military campaign in Afghanistan in December. They said the emergence of new messages by Bin Laden are probably FABRICATIONS, Middle East Newsline reported.
(CNN, Oct 7, 2002) KABUL, Afghanistan - Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead, but former Taliban leader Mullah Omar is alive, Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said.
(BBC, 18 July 2002) The US Federal Bureau of Investigation's counter-terrorism chief, Dale Watson, says he thinks Osama bin Laden is "probably" dead.
FOX NEWS;
Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader. "The Coalition troops are engaged in a mad search operation but they would never be able to fulfill their cherished goal of getting Usama alive or dead," the source said.
NEW YORK TIMES;
Osama bin Laden is dead. The news first came from sources in Afghanistan and Pakistan almost six months ago: the fugitive died in December and was buried in the mountains of southeast Afghanistan
Of course, most of us already know about the FAKE confession videoa and the other FAKE videos.
Dammit you made me spill my juice box all over my keyboard! I'm telling mom!
If anyone wants the links to those news articles, just ask, and I send them in a private message.
Lovelynice
"NEW YORK TIMES;Osama bin Laden is dead" It's funny how the rest of the media didn't pickup on this story. Please provide a New York Times link to the article (not a conspiracy theorists link).
Applerod is right. It does a disservice to national security to assume he's dead. Furthermore once he is confirmed dead it'll be a major news story and talked about for weeks on end. You won't have to scour the net looking for tiny tidbits as confirmation of proof.
CI: I get tired of this repetition. You believe machines and the CIA are infallible, I have my doubts. But I didn't say that he was absolutely dead beyond all question. I said it seemed likely, but "I'm not saying definitively either way".
It is repetitious. We've had this conversation for years and in the meantime tape after tape is released. Your response "there fake,the CIA are wrong, and even though I don't understand how a spectrograph works it could be mistaken or misread". Anything but switch positions, right?
Tell me this. What is need to convince you?
{n the meantime tape after tape ...
by ClosetIguana on Mon Dec 11, 06 7:20pm}
Yes, FAKE tape after FAKE tape.
Bin Laden tape “faked”
swissinfo November 29, 2002 11:01 AM
Swiss researchers say they are 95 per cent certain that a recent audio tape attributed to the Saudi dissident, Osama bin Laden, is not genuine.
The Lausanne-based Dalle Molle Institute for Perceptual Artificial Intelligence (IDIAP) claims it was recorded by an impostor.
The review of the tape, which was first aired on November 12 by the Arabic television network, Al-Jazeera, was commissioned by the French television channel, France 2.
However, having compared the most recent tape with 20 previous recordings attributed to bin Laden, the IDIAP claims the voice is not that of the al-Qaeda leader.
Professor Hervé Boulard, the institute’s director, told France 2 that he was 95 per cent certain that “it has not been recorded by bin Laden”.
The IDIAP, which is affiliated to the Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne and the University of Geneva, said the risk of error was just five per cent.
swissinfo with agencies
and nobody is falling for the Mr Fat Nose video either.
So how were the tapes faked? It must have been reported, right? Looking forward to hearing more of your nonsense.
Lovelynice
"If anyone wants the links to those news articles, just ask, and I send them in a private message."
I'm still waiting for those links to actually news network sites.
I'm still waiting. In the meantime you can find this The Pakistan Observer (the newpaper you claim proves his death) online.
pakobserver .net
I challenge you to find one single artical about this supposted Egyptian Funeral Artical or any news artical confirming his death. Being that it was huge news in Asia you should have no trouble. LOL!
He's dead. Only stupid people believe the uS givt lies.
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