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COMMENTS:
ballot #92113
He didn't say there wasn't a masacre - To me it appears that he is putting across a hypothesis.
sorry - she.
Why did so many people take offence when she brought up some interestoing points about this historical event.
surely if we always ignore all information which dissagrees with our set ideas on a topic, we'll never learn anything.
Here are some members of Japanese civic groups
And No - i am not saying there was no massacre - That does not mean I can't contemplate new information about it
Here are the non-massacring Japanese soldiers performing bayonet practice on captured Chinese prisoners.
FF - Do these pictures have any relevance to this ballot? Did Lovelynice lie?
All these intelligent people, yet noone can see thaty she clearly did not lie. Astonishing.
and who could forget this photo from life magazine
she is a denier, liar and totally shameless. I'll be happy to provide maps in Japanese to show exactly where the massacres took place.
Voted : Damn right it's underhanded!
I do think that the "feel good denial" remark on a previous ballot was a freudian slip.
I've got more including authentic documents. I'll just wait for the jackbooted lovelynice to post her "evidence".
Deny, minimize. When proven wrong, deny minimize again. Seize on one weak area of evidence and apply it to whole event to imply none of it occurred. It is the typical shameless tactic of "ultra right-wing neo-nazi racist antisemites".
For a resident of Japan, denying the Rape of Nanking is "feel good denial."
FF - dont be rediculous - you're flying off the handle
Lovelynice found some interesting information and aired it. Your response is over the top.
She Never once said it did not happen.
Fiddlefaddle - No - it is the typical behavious or a critic. Without critics we'd learn nothing.
We'd all go a round thinking things like, Saddam Hussein actually did have nuclear war heads
We do NOT base our estimates of the dead on spurious claims by one or two individuals but on years and years of reseach by legitimate historians who do not have any kind of political axe to grind.
As for whether our ballot maker was lying or not: she has "suggested" that the population of Nanking GREW in the time given for the massacre!
If that's not denying a massacre occurred then I don't know what is!
You can't post reams of 'evidence' refuting the massacre and then claim to be an impartial observer.
Our ballot-makers very arguments are based upon the assumption that there was no massacre!
"the increase in population is strongly suggestive that THERE WAS NO MASSACRE."
For fuck's sake! How blatant can you get? By merely stating that there was an increase in population you are immediately taking the position of denial. To later proclaim that "I never said there wasn't a massacre" is stretching the truth beyond breaking point.
It was interesting to read the exchange between Lovelynice and herzog on ballot #106620 where herzog asked:
"Lovely: Do you aknowledge, and no diversions please, that the holocaust happened and that the japanese committed horrific war crimes during the 30s and 40s?"
her response:
" On IGNORE you go. Goodbye loser"
Very, very telling don't you think?
mr_susan, read what I said: Deny, minimize. When proven wrong, deny minimize again. Seize on one weak area of evidence and apply it to whole event to imply none of it occurred. It is the typical shameless tactic of "ultra right-wing neo-nazi racist antisemites".
This is the tactic they use. She has no evidence to back up her case. She uses the typical revisionist methods. Despicable.
With Beijing under siege, Nanking had been made the capital of China, accounting to an increase in population to roughly 1,000,000; but the greater portion had come from refugees who had fled to the city from the dangerous northern countryside.
Typical widehead,
you can't support the number claimed, so you decide to attempt to misrepresent what I stated.
I believe there was a massacre. I have said so MANY TIMES. Your little bullshit game doesn't work because anyone can go through my previous comments and see that it's true.
I have REPEAETEDLY asked you to answer the ballot question which was how many died?
Instead, you have only engaged in personal attacks and told lies about what I have stated.
You really are a loser, neh?
Voted : She didn't lie
FFaddle - Read my comments again - They aplly to what you've just said too.
Wideheadofknowledge - rediculous - HAve you not read Lovelynices comments - she does not think the nanking massacre did not happen.
what aren't you understanding about that.
Saying that some information suggests that there was no m,assacre does not change that in any way and doesn't constitute a lie
Isn't that obvious?
Lovelynice, if you argue from the point of view that the population of Nanking actually GREW in the time given for the massacre - in what sense do you think a massacre occurred?
If you think that the evidence is AND I QUOTE YOUR OWN WORDS "trongly suggestive that there was no massacre" then again we are forced to ask: in what way do you think a massacre occurred?
wideheadofknowledge - Havent you stated throughout this argument that there is overwhelming evidence to say that the massacre did happen.
That would be the reason for thinking it happened
but!! Aren't these new points very intersting - they suggest the massacre never happened. - What do you think?
I think that the Japanese 'revisions' of the death toll have deliberately underestimated it.
Unfortunately for Lovelynice 95% of the legitamate academic research supports this point of view too.
Lovelynice is either playing a very silly and pointless game of devil's advocate, is majorly deluded or is a neo-nazi.
Those are the ONLY possibilities.
Do you really think she's a nepo nazi? I think not.
It is never silly to be devils advocate. Especially in a debating situation.
I would say that though - cos I'm the devils advocate right now in your eyes.
I'll leave this for you and lovelynice - nout of my business
Any objective person would realize that it is in the interests of the China's govt for propaganda purposes to wildly inflate their claims of the deathtoll for the Nanjing massacre, equally as much as it is in the interests of rightwing groups in Japan to pretend it didn't happen.
Lovelynice didn't say it didn't happen. She asked on her ballot anout Nanjing massacre about what the number of dead really was. Instead of rational debate, people like FiddleFaddleOnLSd and wideheadofknowledge responded with insults and lies about her.
I believe that the numbers of dead claimed by China's govt can be doubted because the Communist Party always lies. They lie about the "Tianmen Square" massacre too, and they lie about everything. People in China don't believe them any more. What ever the truth might be, attacking those who question the lies of govts like that of China and Japan and the USA is always going to be wrong.
"I believe that the numbers of dead claimed by China's govt can be doubted because the Communist Party always lies."
Aside from this being a) untrue and b) a logical fallacy don't forget that we are not rely on ONLY Chinese death toll figures and it is extremely unfair to suggest otherwise. The Nanking Safety Zone was set up and run by foreigner not present-day Chinese government officials with a political axe to grind.
Watch as the votes for the vote-spammer's voices climb by upto hundreds of votes a day as he tries desperately to compensate for his small mind and flacid impotency.
(The Nanking Safety Zone was set up and run by foreigner not present-day Chinese government officials with a political axe to grind.
by wideheadofknowledge on Tue May 15, 07 5:01pm)
So why don't you accept what the documents of the Nanking Safety Zone committee actually say? Why don't you accept the studies done by foreigners who also didn't have an axe to grind, such as the guy who did a survey only months later and discovered the deathtoll was only in the tens of thousands?
The Communist Party of China does tell lies, and they do exaggerate when it benefits their propaganda. Not even Chinese believe everything they say.
Lovelynice wasn't lying either, you were just misrepresenting what she said. And the vote spamming on this ballot is ridiculously obvious too.
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