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COMMENTS:
I think it's just the way it is.
I'd probably vote - racist - but understandable.
They dont live like we do in the west, so they are naturally uintersted and amused by the way we do things.
although it can make you feel uncomfortable, it is rarely malicious to the extreme... there is no hint of hatred to be detected
Voted : Racism is Racism it is imoral
If it's not acceptable for westerners I don't see why it would be acceptable for non-westerners.
To apply a different standard of behavior to people based on their race/culture, is by itself racist.
Voted : Other - see comment
Umm... you brought up so many separate points. I will address each individually.
"You walk down a street and because of your skin colour, everyone approaches you for money or to sell you something. Everything you buy costs at least twice as much as it does for Indians. You are continually treated differently."
- I personally think this is understandable. The assumption is that because you are white in India that you must be wealthier, because you had the money to even go on a vacation to India. A lot of Indians don't even ahve the moeny to go touring around their own country, so a tourist from that far away is assumed to be more wealthy. It's understandable. And they treat all Westerners like that- the non-white ones too, as soon as they find out they are from the West. As well as Japanese and Korean tourists. They will indeed charge more at markets and stuff.
"Also, white women get stared at"
- I haven't been to India, but in other nations I ahve seen a pattern in which white women get stared at by the local men.
"and if you speak to Indian men, you soon find out that they really do think that all western women are easy and premiscuous with low morals."
- That is racist and unacceptable. But you ahve to remember that 'promiscuous' in their culture is quite different, because theirs is not modern. Women in the West, of which many are indeed caucasian, do have more freedoms. This includes being free to have male friends, choosing their own husband and so on- many conservative Indians do see this as wild.
"They also think that there are loads and loads of gay people in the west. These are all things they find shocking and imoral."
- Well, homosexuals are free to be open about themselves in the West that's true. But that doesn't mean there are more in the West. On this point- they sound racist and backward.
"You see people staring at you all day, without shifting a gaze when you clock them."
- Yeah, what is with that? I haven't been to India, but elsewhere- in Southeast Asia they just STARE at white people, and its so rude. When they look back at them, they still continue staring and staring and staring.
"You see peole openly laughing about you. Even to your face they will laugh at your hair, skin and clothes."
- Racist, unacceptable and backward attitudes.
But India is also racist in other ways that you haven't mentioned.
It is by no conincidence that the lighter-skinned Indians (the Indo-Aryans) are mostly of the higher castes compared to the darker skinned Dravidians. Throughout the Indian media- advertisements, TV shows, film and so on- it is the lighter skinned Indians that completely, and I mean completely dominate- whereas the Dravidians are sidelined to an extreme. There is a racism within India between Indians. It stems from history in which the Indo-Aryans were more powerful and dominated over the rest.
True, social stratification in India is at appalling levels. However, what is worse? Racism due to ignorance on the part of Indians, or racism by Westerners, who should know better?
Voted : Probably ignorance
I think people from some countries just aren't used to the melting pot concept, and do things that would seem out of place in the west. I've seen some immigrants here in the states that seem like nice people but say the wrong thing out of ignorance.
cranky- so you expect better from Westerners, because their civilization is superior?
skyab - thats the way I'd go.
People sure are making a lot more excuses, and being more understanding, of their blatant racism than they would be of even alleged racism in the west.
I have to ask, isn't holding one group of people to a lower standard based on their skin color in itself a racist thought?
Soc:
I expect better from Westerners because they are better educated and better informed. Still, there are plenty of Western white racists, as evidenced by the large number of racist neocon ballots on B&W.
LOL. Looks like when you smoke out a racist, he makes another of his neocon ballots, in a sad attempt to justify himself.
Voted : Racism is Racism it is imoral
Cranky, Herzog is right. At least I think so. Consider this example. A Black man travels to an all White town in the Midwest back in the 1950's. They stare at him, mock him, follow him around and when he approaches them, the White towns people clutch their purses and lock their doors.
That really did happen, didn't it? And what was it called? Racism. Many of those White people in those remote towns had never seen a Black person in real life. They did not really have Television, did not really read newspapers and were pretty much isolated. So why were they stygmatized as being narrow minded racists, but in this case, as Mr. Susan outlines, the people in India are not?
Surely these poor people in India are just like those White towns people in rural America, right? Fairly poor, isolated and unaware of the rest of the world. Seems like a good comparison. Except today, with the advent of instant communication and the overwhelming export of Western culture (movies, magazines, the Internet, etc.) they clearly should know better.
You know that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are in India making a movie and every where they go, it's a frenzy because even in the poorest of towns in India, they know who Angelina and Brad are. So then shouldn't the people of India know better than to hold such racist attitudes and actions against a White westener? I think they should.
Patch:
"A Black man travels to an all White town in the Midwest back in the 1950's. They stare at him, mock him, follow him around and when he approaches them, the White towns people clutch their purses and lock their doors."
In the 50's, in the Midwest? No, Patch, it wasn't like that, then. I doubt if it ever was. Maybe you are thinking of the South in the early part of the 20th Century or late 19th Century. Or Texas, where herzog lives.
"That really did happen, didn't it?"
No, it didn't.
"Many of those White people in those remote towns had never seen a Black person in real life. They did not really have Television, did not really read newspapers and were pretty much isolated."
Patch, you are promoting a unfortunate sterotype of rural Midwesterners. Television came to the Midwest in the early fifties. There were large populations of blacks in almost all major midwestern cities. Almost every small town had a newspaper and a larger percentage of the population read the paper then than do today. Plus there was radio. And, relatively speaking, the educational systems in Midwestern states were quite good and the literacy rate, high.
"So why were they stygmatized as being narrow minded racists, but in this case, as Mr. Susan outlines, the people in India are not?"
No one is suggesting that many people in India aren't extremely racist.
But there is very little comparison between prosperous Midwesterners and illiterate, subsistance-level people in India. It isn't the same at all.
And I still maintain that it is less excusable for a Western educated person, like herzog, to be a racist (which he is) than for someone in the untouchable cast in India who has virtually no contact with the world outside his own neighborhood.
And herzog's argument is lame, anyway. He's whining that he gets criticized for being a racist only because he's a white racist, whereas if he was an Indian racist he wouldn't get as much criticism, and that's not fair. He fails, of course, to deal with the real issue, which is that his racist attitudes are unfair to begin with.
They are being racist. No doubt about it. I have been living in India for more than a year, in different cities and not only racism is spread all over but nobody will defend you over there (not the media nor the government rules, etc). And I have seen acts of hatred (words.. but for that you need to speak the language or be with someone willing to translate the many non-pleasant comments!!!).
Please, be aware, that there are a big middle and upper (very very rich) classes in India and as a white man coming on basic holidays, i don't think you have enough money to compare with all the rich local bourgeoisie! (i heard a story of a woman complaining how hard is life for her son who lives in UK, because in UK you can't find cheap maid as in India. I quote: "India is such a nice place, you can find people to work for you for very cheap. You give them food and they are happy to do your work". Now I hope you won't miss the real meaning of such a horrible statement just because she is indian!!
I'm an Indian and have been living in the UK since last 1 year. Now let me explain this.
You walk down a street and because of your skin colour, everyone approaches you for money or to sell you something. Everything you buy costs at least twice as much as it does for Indians. You are continually treated differently.
That's true. I admit. Just because they don't have money and expect a white person to be rich. I personally think this is unacceptable. I haven't seen any British selling things in double price than he does for a white.
white women get stared at and if you speak to Indian men, you soon find out that they really do think that all western women are easy and premiscuous with low morals.
That's also true. Indian women are conserved and orthodox type. Even I also don't like if I see a British girl with low morals as I have seen hundreds of girls here, none of my business though.
You see people staring at you all day, without shifting a gaze when you clock them
true!! just because they don't see white person that often out there. Until I was in India, I used to look at white people very curiously, like how they are, what they wear etc...nothing racism in that...that's just curiosity..
You see peole openly laughing about you. Even to your face they will laugh at your hair, skin and clothes.
Now that's CERTAINLY not true. They don't laugh at white people. Instead they respect them a lot. INDEED. They think every foreign thing is good, whether it be man or any other stuff.
Especially when living in a poorer country where real poverty surrounds you
True at some extent. But India is not as poor as you all might think. Indian are divided into three groops. The one who is rich are richer than any white person, one is middle class which is 50% of India's population as they boost India's progress and continue get growing. I belong to middle class, frankly speaking. Third is poor, sorry poorest!! and our bloody government is doing nothing for these poorest people who don't have even food to eat.
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