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NO STONING, CANADA MIGRANTS TOLD

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NO STONING, CANADA MIGRANTS TOLD


[+] serious ballot by herzog
created Wed Jan 31, 07

Don't stone women to death, burn them or circumcise them, immigrants wishing to live in the town of Herouxville in Quebec, Canada, have been told.

The rules come in a new town council declaration on culture that Muslims have branded shocking and insulting.

Quebec is in the midst of a huge debate on integrating immigrant cultures.

Montreal police are investigating an officer who wrote a song called That's Enough Already, which says immigrants are undermining Quebec culture.

Herouxville, which has one immigrant family in its population of about 1,300, is 160km (100 miles) north-east of Montreal.

Its council published the new rules on the town's website.
"We wish to inform these new arrivals that the way of life which they abandoned when they left their countries of origin cannot be recreated here," the declaration reads.

"We consider it completely outside norms to... kill women by stoning them in public, burning them alive, burning them with acid, circumcising them etc."

It points out that women are allowed to drive, vote, dance and own their own homes.

The rules ban Sikh children from carrying ceremonial daggers to school, even though the Supreme Court has ruled they can.

The man behind the declaration, councillor Andre Drouin, told the National Post newspaper the rules were not racist.

"We invite people from all nationalities, all languages, all sexual orientations, whatever, to come live with us, but we want them to know ahead of time how we live," he said.

Mr Drouin said there had been a number of recent incidents of culture clashes that meant the new rules were needed.
However, the president of the Muslim Council of Montreal, Salam Elmenyawi, condemned the council, saying it had set back race relations decades.

He told Reuters news agency: "I was shocked and insulted to see these kinds of false stereotypes and ignorance about Islam and our religion."

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Do you think it is fair for towns or nations to lay out explicitly what sort of behavior will be tolerated from immigrants (stoning women to death will not be acceptable, for instance)? Or is it racist to assume that people moving here from countries where such practices are commonplace might not realize that the same rules don't apply here? In other words, should they assume these immigrants have already adopted western values prior to immigrating?



It's fair for them to detail what is/is not acceptable
It is unfair, they should assume everyone shares the same values
It is unnecessary and presumptuous
Its unnecessary


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COMMENTS:
Voted : It's fair for them to detail what is/is not acceptable
So apparently now it's racist to ask someone not to kill people. 120
by _Beelzebubba on Wed Jan 31, 07 10:10am [+]

Voted : It's fair for them to detail what is/is not acceptable
Seems fair.

Not all immigrants come in with the same values we in the west share. Hence all the 'honor' killings muslim immigrants have committed across europe and north america.

Letting them know exactly what is acceptable seems like a reasonable preemptive measure. At least now they can't claim ignorance later on.
by herzog on Wed Jan 31, 07 10:10am [+]

"So apparently now it's racist to ask someone not to kill people."

Well, if they're muslims then yes. Apparently according to their religion (which is also a race now) they are supposed to kill people, so asking them not to isn't fair to their culture (which again, is also a race apparently). Seems absurd to me, but I'm sure there are plenty on here who agree with that sentiment.
by herzog on Wed Jan 31, 07 10:12am [+]

Voted : It's fair for them to detail what is/is not acceptable
When I was in the service we were required to attend newcomers orientation classes. Sounds like a great idea.
by elvislennon on Wed Jan 31, 07 10:22am [+]

Some may find it offensive and others may find it useful. You can't please everyone.
by ClosetIguana on Wed Jan 31, 07 10:27am [+]

Voted : It's fair for them to detail what is/is not acceptable
Quebec is right on this one. But I am sure Ottawa will reign in with its overly politically correct culture and force them to remove it.
by xxxxxxxx on Wed Jan 31, 07 11:06am [+]

old news

"Herouxville, which has one immigrant family in its population of about 1,300, is 160km (100 miles) north-east of Montreal."

One immigrant family, so what is the point of all this again?


by aya on Wed Jan 31, 07 1:31pm [+]


Montreal police are investigating an officer who wrote a song called That's Enough Already, which says immigrants are undermining Quebec culture.

I would like to hear how they're undermining Quebec culture
by aya on Wed Jan 31, 07 1:35pm [+]

bunch of yahoos in smallville picking on one immigrant family.

does canada have hate crime laws?
by LCD on Wed Jan 31, 07 4:11pm [+]

LCD: asking muslim immigrants not to murder the natives is a hate crime?
by herzog on Wed Jan 31, 07 5:38pm [+]

Voted : It's fair for them to detail what is/is not acceptable
I was sort-of operating under the assumption that Canada has already banned things like stoning and burning people alive. Why does this town even need to lay out such rules, when they are already accepted on a national level? To treat this one family with such paranoia is a fine example of xenophobia.

This story does not even detail where this one family is from. It seems to me that they have no reason to assume that this Muslim family would even think about stoning somebody. I agree, though, that it is fair for it to be detailed what is and is not culturally acceptable.
by himself809 on Wed Jan 31, 07 7:01pm [+]

I dont think that it is racist to assume that muslims treat their women in the way that you have described, because its obvious some of them do. However I think asking a fanatic muslim not to do something that he views as sacrament ridiculous. Pointing out wha is and is'nt tolerated in Britain would not have stopped the London Bombings. If muslims want to condone the awful treatment of their women then thats their business, just dont expect to get away with it over in a nation where women are valued members of society. Perhaps the best solution would be to come down extremely hard on the Muslims that do stone and rape women.

As for the council that published these rules, they should ask themselves this question:

What do they hope to achieve with the declaration?

Surely the only thing this will achieve is straining the relationship the town has with its only immigrant family, (who I assume are muslims.)

It seems to me that Herouxville council has intensionally tried to slander one family in its community, which is unnecessary and counter-productive to their aims.
by winston on Wed Jan 31, 07 7:10pm [+]

"Apparently according to their religion (which is also a race now) they are supposed to kill people"

According to the Old Testament, Jews and Christians are too:

"If your very own brother... secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and worship other gods'.... Show him no pity.... Stone him to death, beacused he tried to turn you away from the Lord your God." -- Deutoronomy 13:9-11

I think I should propose an insensitive and illogical posting on my city's website for Christians and Jews about how it's not morally sound to stone people.
by himself809 on Wed Jan 31, 07 7:11pm [+]

But I want to emphasize the fact that I *do* believe it's alright for immigrants to be told what is and is not acceptable. Just not in this fashion and for this reason.
by himself809 on Wed Jan 31, 07 7:14pm [+]

LCD: asking muslim immigrants not to murder the natives is a hate crime?

It's one immigrant familiy
by aya on Thu Feb 01, 07 8:39am [+]

Aya: it's not aimed at that one family, it's aimed at any immigrants who may wish to move to this town.

Winston: while it's unlikely to stop many of these people, it will take away the defense often employed when caught of "well how was I supposed to know you couldn't beat your wife here? We do it all the time back home".
by herzog on Thu Feb 01, 07 10:13am [+]

"well how was I supposed to know you couldn't beat your wife here? We do it all the time back home". They justify this because of their religion, it should simply be pointed out to muslims that if they want to live in Canada, Canadian law takes precedence over their religious ideologies. If they cannot accept this, then they shouldn't be allowed in the country.

"Aya: it's not aimed at that one family, it's aimed at any immigrants who may wish to move to this town." So you are of the opinion that Herouxville council has intentionally tried to stop more muslims moving to their town? If this is the case then Its simple Xenophobia, i dont think that it is a hate crime.
by winston on Thu Feb 01, 07 12:04pm [+]

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