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COMMENTS:
Voted : They should ignore those barbarians, and continue to promote human rights as universal
Ignore them. You don't civilise these savages by sacrificing the principles of human rights in their honour.
As far as I know the only countries that disagreed with the whole idea were Japan. And to a lesser extent South Korea. At least there are two civilised countries in Asia. Two is better than none I guess. However, I have to remember, Taiwan of course could not attend (because of China), and they would have probably have had hesitations toward the declaration as well.
Voted : They should ignore those barbarians, and continue to promote human rights as universal
This may be kind of like putting all of your efforts into the manufacturing of an automobile, but none toward learning how to drive the friggin' thing. 
Soc, one, this was over ten years ago, so things may have changed.
And second, this whole idea of civilizing the barbarians, well, for the longest time, the Asians like the Chinese thought they were more civilized than the rest of us. After WW2, there were a bunch of Japanese who jumped off a cliff to committ suicide because of the invading barbarians. This whole notion of we, as civilized, while they, as barbarians, smacks of the ideals of colonialsm, whereby it was justified in order to civilize the barbarians.
by aya on Thu Mar 01, 07 10:31am
[+]
"for the longest time, the Asians like the Chinese thought they were more civilized than the rest of us."
they were, until they started westernising like crazy.
i often wonder what a truly modern oriental culture would look like, wehat they'd be like now if they hadn't been brainwashed into thinking that to mesternise is to modernise.
this is not an us vs them issue. this is a logic vs humans issue. the fact is, unless logical behavior is forced down humanity's throat, they will destroy themselves.
How barbaric is a country that encourages civil war in Iraq, just so as to secure oil revenues?
^steel, I wonder teh same about countries that permit women to be stoned to death.
by aya on Thu Mar 01, 07 12:14pm
[+]
oh, you mean our good friends the saudis?
Voted : They should ignore those barbarians, and continue to promote human rights as universal
We should promote human rights. The best place to start is with ourselves, because to do otherwise is problematic.
aya- Actually things have gotten much worse since 1993. The rise in economic growth in East Asia has led to a resurgence in confidence of their traditional ways, this often referred to as the Asian Affirmation. Now that we are in the new millenium, discussion of cultural relativism has increased not decreased. Have you not heard of the 'Asia Values Debate', which was spearheaded by Singapore, and then followed by basically all the other countries? And Singapore is very modern, but they are not Western.
"well, for the longest time, the Asians like the Chinese thought they were more civilized than the rest of us."
- Yeah, for a long time China believed it was morally superior to the rest of the world, while simultaneously forcing footbinding on their women. I doubt their claim to being civil was appropriate. Can't you see the difference between their nonsensical claim, and the current claim dividing those that believe cultural traditions are more important than human rights as opposed to those who promote the universality to human rights (such as freedom of expression, freedom of thought, political participation, women's rights, and so on)? There is a significant difference, can't you see it? One is moral, the other is barbaric.
Also, I disagree that asking countries to conform to human rights standards is a form of colonialism. Although the signatories of the Bangkok Declaration thought it was an intrusion on their sovereignty to be asked to do so.
"they were, until they started westernising like crazy.
i often wonder what a truly modern oriental culture would look like, wehat they'd be like now if they hadn't been brainwashed into thinking that to mesternise is to modernise."
- I disagree. Asian cultures were barbaric, authoritarian and feudalistic. While I can agree that Western contact did lead many Asian nations down the road to ruin of Communism, I do not agree that Asian countries were good and beautiful before contact with the West. Would you describe foot binding in China for instance to be a beautiful that thing that should be cherished, or rather should we sigh with relief that that barbaric tradition was abandoned? Should we be disappointed that Buddhist monastaries no longer have rule Japan feudalistically, or should we be rather glad that Japan now has a democratic parliamentry system? Is the caste system in India a lovely thing to be loved and adored, or rather is it good and wholoesome to know that the Indian government today that many Indians are working against that form of oppression? Was it better when Asia was ruled by superstitions, or is better now that Asia is embracing the scientific method, empiricism and reason and logic? Would you say the absolutist power of the antiquity Thai monarchy was better or worse than the modern day constitutionalised and merely symbolic form of monarchism? Would you say ideas of individual rights and democracy are corrupting to Asians, or would it better to think of these ideas as potentially beneficial?
I also disagree with you that Asia has even Westernised much anyway. Certainly, many Asian have embraced the superficial surface of Western culture (jeans, music, pepsi), but to what extent have they embraced the core philosophical values of Western civilization such as individualism, individual rights, women's rights, tolerance of differences, expectation for political participation and the rest? For the most part, I would say most of Asia has indeed modernised without Westernising to any significant extent.
neothe1 ^
Steelhamster- Provide evidence that the US government is encouraging civil war in Iraq. Even then, detail how the idea of encouraging civil war for oil is an actual part of American culture.
Anyhow, I am interested as to what you, neothe1 and aya believe the answer to this ballot question should be.
Voted : They should ignore those barbarians, and continue to promote human rights as universal
Obviously human rights trump any cultural concerns. But it's surprising how many people don't realize this.
so you think the solution is to replace eastern barbarism with western barbarism, by force at that? replace foot binds with breast implants, so to speak?
"Obviously human rights trump any cultural concerns."
unless they're yours, you mean.
""Obviously human rights trump any cultural concerns."
unless they're yours, you mean."
- Not at all. Any European based tradition that violates human rights should be discarded, if it hasn't been done so already, which pretty much most to all of them have been.
I am getting the impression that some were a little bit concerned by my use of the words 'barbarians' and 'savage'?
Someone explain to me how those individual politicians that turned their back on the importance of human rights, in the 1993 Bangkok delaration, were not barbaric and savage to do so?
"Not at all. Any European based tradition that violates human rights should be discarded, if it hasn't been done so already, which pretty much most to all of them have been."
are you shitting me?
how can you complain about asians choosing to reject human rights, then stand there and defend european barbarism? what hypocrisy. ever consider that maybe they view their culture as you view yours?
^ I suggest you read that quote of mine again, and see that I that I stated that any European tradition that violates human rights should be discarded.
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