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ETHNIC RUSSIANS RIOT IN ESTONIA? ARE RUSSIANS AND RUSSIA ARROGANT?

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ETHNIC RUSSIANS RIOT IN ESTONIA? ARE RUSSIANS AND RUSSIA ARROGANT?


[+] serious ballot by xxxxxxxx
ACTIVE Tue May 01, 07 - Wed Apr 30, 08

"Tallinn tense after deadly riots
A tense calm is reported in Estonia's capital, Tallinn, after two nights of clashes between ethnic Russians and police over a Soviet war monument.
One man was killed, 153 people were injured and some 800 arrests were made as the Russians resisted the removal of the bronze statue of a soldier.

Police fired tear gas and rubber bullets and protesters trashed shops.

Estonians say the memorial symbolised Soviet occupation. Supporters say it celebrated heroes who fought the Nazis.

The dead man has been named by the Russian embassy in Tallinn as Dmitriy Ganin, 20, an ethnic Russian who was permanently resident in Estonia and held Russian citizenship.


Estonian authorities have said he was stabbed by another demonstrator and that police had no involvement in his death.

There have been unconfirmed reports of a second death, but the Estonian government has denied this.

Russian President Vladimir Putin expressed "serious concern" about the events during a phone conversation with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, a Kremlin statement said.

Looting

The monument was removed on Friday and taken to a secret location.


Correspondents said a crowd of more than 1,000 demonstrators gathered on Friday evening where the monument used to stand.

Some of the protesters threw petrol bombs, while others waved Russian flags and chanted "Russia, Russia, Russia".

Department stores and other shops in the city centre were looted.

There were also reports of rioting and looting in the towns of Johvi and Kohtla-Jarve, in a mainly ethnic Russian region east of Tallinn.

AFP news agency said that in Johvi looters set fire to a statue of an Estonian general who fought the Russians during the country's 1918 war of independence.

By Saturday morning the situation in central Tallinn was described as calm, but the authorities are braced for more trouble.


Squads of police were seen moving around the area where the memorial used to stand.

The decision to remove the Soviet monument has strained relations with Russia, which called it "blasphemous".

And for local ethnic Russians it is one insult too many, the BBC's Richard Galpin says, after what they feel has been years of discrimination against them by the majority Estonian population.

Whereabouts unknown

More than a quarter of Estonia's 1.3m people are ethnically Russian, and speak the language.

However, half of them do not have Estonian citizenship.

But the Estonians believe much of the tension is being whipped up by forces outside the country, i.e. Russia itself.

During the years of Soviet occupation after World War II, tens of thousands of Estonians were killed. And they say their country was effectively colonised with many Russians being brought in as workers and military personnel.

Estonia's government would not reveal where it took the six-foot (1.83m) statue, but spokesman Martin Jasko said it would ultimately be placed at the military cemetery in Tallinn.

The memorial, a bronze statue of a Soviet soldier, was erected in 1947. The remains of Soviet soldiers are thought to be buried nearby."

(Source: BBC)


- So Estonians, now that their nation has gained independence from Russian oppression and aggression, wanted to remove an old Soviet statue that for them was a symbol of their former subordination to Russia? And ethnic Russians and Russia are trying to intimidate them from doing so, as if Estonia were still part of a USSR? Does it seem that the ethnic Russians and Russia is being arrogant?


Yes, those Russians are being quite arrogant
No, not at all


Ballot #114460 : SEE RESULTS

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COMMENTS:
Voted : Yes, those Russians are being quite arrogant
Indeed, those Russian individuals in question are being arrogant. The Russian empire that was the Soviet Union is now gone. Estonia is no longer subordinated to them. That Soviet statue symbolising Estonia's place in the Soviet Union is no longer relevant to modern, democratic, free-market, independent Estonia. It is arrogant for ethnic Russians and Russia to make demands that Estonia should keep it where it was, as if they are still disgracefully nostalgic over the days in which Estonia was subordinated in the Soviet Union of which it was forced to join anyway by military force by that dictator Stalin to join the USSR against their will.

Estonia's decision to remove it is understandable. That backward barbarian nation-state Russia should not be trying to bully a modern independent Western nation like Estonia to bow to its will as if the old Soviet days were still existent in contemporary times.
by xxxxxxxx on Tue May 01, 07 4:25am [+]

How many that vote 'no' will leave no comment explaining their theory? My prediction: most.
by xxxxxxxx on Tue May 01, 07 5:11am [+]

^^ again, spoken as if by someone who's actually been there, not just some academic wannabe. Estonia, a 'Modern' western nation? Hah! lessee, rural electrification should be 50% complete in about 2075 and infant mortality rates should continue to drop but 'Modern'? as compared to What? the US, Turkey, Ethiopia? nah..., btw, is there a DNA test that will define 'ethnic Russians'?
by spanky on Tue May 01, 07 5:20am [+]

Voted : Yes, those Russians are being quite arrogant
As I recall, following World War I, Estonia and its Baltic neighbors became independent countries for about 20 years, then Stalin came, then Hitler, then Stalin again. All of those Russians who are there were sent in as colonists, more or less, to help keep a potential restive Soviet republic in line. They were neither Estonian in culture nor in outlook. This is precisely what James I and his successors did with Ireland 3 centuries earlier and why Northern Ireland's still the divided territory it is.

Fact is, that Soviet statue has *nothing* to do with a newly independent Estonia, which should be allowed to erect statues reflecting its own history. While the Russian minority in Estonia should not be maltreated or have its civil rights as a group infringed upon, they must realize that Estonia's no longer a Russian colony but an independent nation.
by Felix on Tue May 01, 07 6:01am [+]

spanky- "lessee, rural electrification should be 50% complete in about 2075"

- Where did you get that statistic from if you don't mind me asking? That sounds more like Albania.

Estonia is booming. It has one of the lowest unemployment rates in Europe. It has one of the highest levels of economic growth in Europe. Living standards are sharply on the rise. It has adapted and absorbed itself in free market economic liberalism. It has successfully democratised. It has met EU standards on individual rights. It is experiencing an IT boom. It has become a strong magnet for businesses, employment, and investment, all the while meeting EU standards on worker's rights.

"'Modern'? as compared to What?"

- Estonia is now politically staunchly part of the free world, while economically it is experiencing a boom. So modern as compared to places that are still autocracies, and are not liberalising up their economies to such an extent resulting in such an economic boom.

"btw, is there a DNA test that will define 'ethnic Russians'?"

- No, of course not. Don't you know the difference between 'ethnicity' and 'race'?
by xxxxxxxx on Wed May 02, 07 7:22am [+]

UPDATE: 'Estonia shuts down consulate in Moscow'

"Estonia has closed its consulate in Moscow after pro-Kremlin youth groups attacked diplomats in protest at the relocation of a Soviet war memorial.
Estonia's foreign ministry said there was an attempt to physically assault their ambassador at a news conference.

It said the incident amounted to a violation of diplomatic conventions.

Estonians of Russian origin rioted last week after the controversial statue of a Soviet soldier was moved away from the centre of the capital, Tallinn.

One person died and 153 were injured in the unrest.

Estonians say the soldier symbolised Soviet occupation. Russians describe it as a tribute to those who fought the Nazis.

Formal protest

Estonia's ambassador Marina Kaljurand said members of the Russian youth organisation "Nashi" tried to disrupt a news conference she was holding at newspaper offices.

Tear gas was used by her body guards to force back about 30 youths, who stormed the building, reportedly shouting: "Fascist Estonia!"

"The consulate's business is stopped and we will not give visas until the situation is normalised around the embassy," Ms Kaljurand said.

Reports said Russian police also scuffled with activists outside the Estonian embassy, arresting one person as protesters attempted to prevent diplomats entering or leaving the building.

The Swedish foreign ministry has meanwhile submitted a formal protest to Russia after its ambassador's car was stopped and damaged by a crowd outside the Estonian embassy in Moscow.

Following the disturbances, the European Union said it would send a delegation to raise concerns with Russia over the increasing violence.

A European Commission spokeswoman said the EU "strongly urged" the Russian authorities to implement their obligations under the Vienna Convention for diplomatic relations."

(Source: BBC)

by xxxxxxxx on Wed May 02, 07 8:47am [+]

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