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COMMENTS:
Voted : Comment
Perhaps this tendency has its roots in the need of society to identify the male parent of a child in order to ensure survival. That isnt the case now, but maybe it started there.
Voted : Comment
Thank you, larry. I try to say that every time this issue arises.
Never looked at it that way Margaret, maybe that's why some societies also allow men to have more than one wife but not other way around. But as you said, today, that wouldn't be a problem.
Truth, I just saw your comment on that other ballot about sluts, you said there what I was trying to say here. :)
Voted : Not double standards, for important biological and psychological reasons.
Men and women are obviously very different biologically, and in some areas different standards opf behaviour are expetced as a result of this. Women being chastised more than men for being sluts is not a double standad, as both the act and the person are very different.
In evolutionary terms, the act of pro-creation (before the invention of contraception of course) has far greater consequences for a female. The male has the chance to spread his genes with no commitment, whereas the female has invested the next 9 months of her life into creating life. This burder naturally makes the female more selective over her mate, so that her eggs receive the very best genes from the healthiest males, giving her child the best chance of survival.
Now, though contraception obviously exists nowadays, human biology hasnt changed whatsoever in the century or so since its creation. Subsequently, overly promiscuous women are often seen as abnormal in some way, and often display symptoms of mental and emotional insecurity and self loathing. Promiscuous women are rarely happy, despite the smiling faces of the porn stars.
Thus, it IS more natural for men to be promiscuous than for women. This isnt a matter of equal rights, its a matter of quite natural biological differences between the sexes. Something that even the hysteria of equal rights and political correctness cannot change.
Margaret123 is right. This double standard has it's root in biology. Up until the invention of DNA tests, if a woman had sex with more than one person in a month she would have no way of knowing who the father of her child is. DNA tests are still expensive and burdenful. The stigma still persists. I don't care about women or men sleeping around, it's their business. The only time it should be an issue is when you're dating someone.
Margaret123 is right. This double standard has it's root in biology. Up until the invention of DNA tests, if a woman had sex with more than one person in a month she would have no way of knowing who the father of her child is. DNA tests are still expensive and burdenful. The stigma still persists. I don't care about women or men sleeping around, it's their business. The only time it should be an issue is when you're dating someone.
KAG,
I would disagree. What about a woman who just wants to get laid? Nothing wrong with that. And nowadays, with protection, there is less risk of getting an unwanted preganancy. Besides, a woman might feel the need to leave her mate in search of the better man with better genes.
by aya on Sun May 06, 07 11:28am
[+]
Voted : only a comment
Yes, I believe women contribute strongly to the double standard only by never having developed a defense to it. This is why I think it is.
Females are not encouraged to bond EXCLUSIVELY with other women the way men bond EXCLUSIVELY with other men. Traditional marital laws that dissolve a woman’s identity (take away her birth name, make her the property of the male, and deny her the opportunity to create a lineage) isolate women from other women and make them competitive towards other women in ways that detract FURTHER from their identities. Traditional customs that make men the pursuer and women the receiver of male interest make women competitive in an isolating way. These very strong tactics make fear of not being loved and fear of other women central to women’s thought processes.
As a result, women identify with the male who has a strong positive identity, rather than with the female, who are identified only as those who continually lose their identities. When they identify with the male, they see things through men’s eyes. “Acting like a man” is a positive exhortation. “Acting like a woman” is an insult.
Traditionally, it was said that it marriage, there was only one being who was recognized, and that was the male. That holds, true in our society with sexual identity. In our society, only one sexual identity is recognized and that is the male sexual identity. This is why women’s magazines think nothing of using male oriented soft pornography to advertise to women and why women have developed no defenses against this annihilation of them as beings of a separate sexual identity.
This is why women will bash women for being sluts but respect the privacy of men who are sluts.
Voted : Another prime example of some men flexing their slut muscles...
Give it a rest KATG, the biological and physical rant is just that, a rant...both genders are no more or less guilty, a slut is a slut is a slut no matter which gender is involved in the activitIES...after all, both requires alot of the other to wear the scarlet letter, "S."
I don't think that women help keep the double standard alive as do men who go out, have sex with as many women as possible, failing on many occasions to satisfy those women and becoming the BUTT of jokes by those very same women because either he can't or fail to maintain an errection long enough to no longer qualify as minute men...
Also, it was determined that today more younger men in their late 20s to early 30s require assistance of vigara and the so call experts attributed to several causes, 1. Some men have not learned that sex is 90% mental and 10% physical, 2. Some men are not physically discipline to wait for the women because either the men are not mentally discipline or the men are more into self gradification and satisfying the women is secondary and 3. Some men suffers from physical problems either attributed to, an illness (diabetes) or medication(s) is/are preventing the men from obtaining/maintaining an erection...
I believe that the so call double standard is kept alive by both genders and the notion that being a slut is more damaging to women physcially/psychologically then men is a fallacy at best 
Forgetmenot
I couldnt disagree more with your comment im afraid.
The notion that men have more support and understanding for other men than women do for women is entirely incorrect. Women tend to form much stronger social bonds than men, and provide greater safety nets in the case of a breakup/heartbreak etc. This is probably somehtign to do with the fact that women TALK to each other, whereas many men dont. Men are generally less consoling to one another; probably because a competitive element often pervades male friends actions towards each other (alpha male competition etc). This, I would suggest, is why more adolescent men suffer emotional and mental health difficulties, tend to be loners, and partially why more men end up in prison.
"Traditional customs that make men the pursuer and women the receiver of male interest make women competitive in an isolating way"
You are getting the causality all wrong. Biology makes men the pursuers, and society relfects this. Its not cultural.
Babs
The fact that you followed your accusation of me "ranting" with an at best irrelevant rant, at worst outpouring of some trauma based on personal experience, is fairly amusing.
However, as usual you have failed to provide a substantial argument of any form, yet expect to have your opinion listen to.
Thats just not good enough.
Aya
"I would disagree. What about a woman who just wants to get laid? Nothing wrong with that"
The occasional lay maybe, but we are talking about sluts here. And if by wrong you mean "immoral" then thats not for me to judge, but if you mean "unnatural and indicative of low self esteem" then I would say yes, it is wrong for women to be sluts.
All Im saying is that women whop are overly promiscuous either lack the normal biological urges of most women, whereby the best local male is selected for sex, and the extraordinarily personal and vulnerable position of penetrative sex is not undertaken lightly; or have suffered some past life stress/trauma (s) that make degradation, or a need to be liked, paramount.
"And nowadays, with protection, there is less risk of getting an unwanted preganancy"
As a conscious human being, a woman can appreciate that, sure. And it may affect her behaviour to some degree.
However, the very fact that the women is alive today suggests the genes of her ancestors have been successful in selecting the best adapted males for pro-creation, rather than some drunken guy they met at an 80's disco night (or whatever the caveman equivalent was), and they have passed these genes for the expression of selectivity in sexual partners onto her.
"The occasional lay maybe, but we are talking about sluts here. And if by wrong you mean "immoral" then thats not for me to judge, but if you mean "unnatural and indicative of low self esteem" then I would say yes, it is wrong for women to be sluts."
It is also wrong for a man to be a slut as well, isn't it? Men who are promiscious may also lack self-esteem and the correct morals. They may have been abandoned by their mothers or been lacking a proper female figure in their lives, so they seek out a woman for love. I'm just saying.
Forgetmenot is correct when saying that only male sexuality is really recognized, society still has difficulty with female sexuality. All I can say is, men are lucky, they get the most breaks; sometimes, it really sucks to be a woman.
by aya on Sun May 06, 07 2:02pm
[+]
2It is also wrong for a man to be a slut as well, isn't it?"
Within a societal framework yes, of course. I udnerstand that there can be severe social, emotional and psychological/physical detriments to such activity.
However, within an evolutionary framework it is entirely RIGHT for men to be sluts, and spread their genetic material as far and wide as possible.
And I know you will hate me for saying this, but I cant lie. I genuinly think its harder being a man nowadays than a woman; in most ways anyway. "Equal rights for women" has turned into "no rights for men", and this attitude is prevalent throughout the judicial system as well as society at large.
The whol equal rights agenda had enforced in the minds of women that equal equals identical, which is ridiculous. Men and women ARE dsifferent, thats a fact, and as such it is not always appropriate to treat them identically.
For instance, many women perceive that promiscuous women are frowned upon by society in a way that men are no. Neo-liberal indoctrination has taught them that ANY discrepancy between the treatment or rights of men and women MUST be the result of some irrational prejudice, something that must be corrected. Never for a second considering that these differecnes may occur for a REASON.
For instance, many women ahve perceived that men are allowed to get more drunk, more rowdy, and be more promiscuous than them.
So what solution does the neo-liberal doctrine provide? Well its obvious, women must out drink men, be louder than them, have fights like them and generally be rowdy like them. Look at the phenomenon of "laddettes" in England, where women are more manly than men. Never stopping for a second to think that maybe these arent GOOD things to be! Just that equality MUST be achieved.
And another thing; If I break up with a gal the most I can expect from *most* of my mates is a brief consolatory comment followed directly by an offer of extreme intoxication "to forget the bitch".
A woman breaks up with a man, and shes get hugs and ice cream and a friendly ear, all her friends gather around with motivational words and praise, and refuse to talk to "that bastard". "you can do better than him girl", "he wasnt worth it girl", "lets get dressed up and go dancing and find a nice guy for you", "you can sleep in my bed tonight if you feel lonely".
MEN HAVE TO GO IT ALONE.
"For instance, many women perceive that promiscuous women are frowned upon by society in a way that men are no."
But it's true, promiscious women are frowned upon by society. And that includes just the woman who wants to sleep with just one man outside of marriage. During the Miss America competition, when one of the 20-year old females got preganant by her boyfriend, everyone immediately called her a slut, but it's the man who got her preganant.
"The whol equal rights agenda had enforced in the minds of women that equal equals identical, which is ridiculous. Men and women ARE dsifferent, thats a fact, and as such it is not always appropriate to treat them identically."
The problem is, is that it is not really acceptable for a woman to be considered tough, like having a woman boss, everyone will call her a bitch behind her back, while celebrating the man. And while in certain cases, yes, women and men should be treated differently, like when applying for jobs, who would pick a 120 pound female over a 300 pound guy to lift heavy stuff, the idea then becomes, then what is it acceptable for women to do and not do?
by aya on Sun May 06, 07 3:00pm
[+]
^for example, Muslims also argue that women and men are different, so they accept the idea that a female should inherit less than a man, and that the man is the head of the household. And let's face it: males (especially White males) have the best lot. I can't emphasize that enough, especially being a South Asian female. And you know as well as I do, that, especially in places in teh UK, girls can die for things that their male counterparts can get away with.
Men can (usually) go out without the fear of being raped. Men earn more than women. And while the advertising industry is now targeting men, women mainly feel teh need to become an ideal standard of beauty that is unattainable.
by aya on Sun May 06, 07 3:03pm
[+]
KAGT, you have not a clue regarding this matter, you would like to think you do however. You should be as well verse in this subject matter and the others that you would dare offer commentary...You are in deed glueless when you venture down the path of the so call biological and psychological affects of being a slut for men and women, I take it you graduated from some university with a degree in slutology? 
"I take it you graduated from some university with a degree in slutology?"
Well, I guess you could call it that. My actualy degree is in Economics, but I was basically doing a joint honours in "slutology" in my first year (smile:wink)
oops!
that was meant to be a craftyily suggestive 
Well, that is because you are such a ladies man, KAG. And I take it that comment about breakups is from personal experience? You can PM me if you want. I've often been told that having a boyfriend/girlfriend is not cracked up to be. Well, with my breasts, I really should have had at least one boyfriend by now.
by aya on Sun May 06, 07 4:08pm
[+]
Aya
But there is a flip side to everything you just said..
"The problem is, is that it is not really acceptable for a woman to be considered tough, like having a woman boss, everyone will call her a bitch behind her back"
Agreed. But look at the flip side, what if you had a male manager who was sensitive and social, very gentle and timid. He would almost certainly be accused of being a closet homosexual!
"Men can (usually) go out without the fear of being raped"
I saw some literature recently that showed that something like 30% of rape victims were male, but 80% of those victims were too ashamed to tell the police or anyone close to them because of the stigma. Male rape is both underreported and trivialised.
"Men earn more than women"
Female wages are generally converging, plus women are outperforming men in pretty much every area of education. Is this because women are more clever? Or is it because men who work hard are alled "nerds" and "pussies" and "losers" etc. Masculine culture (hiphopculture is a prime example) has completely ruined the work ethic of a whole generation of young men.
Also, men may earn more, but who generally has to pay the bill on a date? Pay for the cab home? Society tells us that any man not willing to do these things is a skinflint. Why do you think so much advertising for cosmetics has traditionally been directed towards women? Because women have the disposable income, and often the time, to worry about such things. Men who spend all their time grooming themselves and getting facelifts and buying cosmetics are called homosexuals or layabouts. Women who do the same are "women of leisure".
There are a huge number of contradictory pressures on young men nowadays.
We need to be assertive and masculine, but we also need to be caring and understanding (90's men) lest we be accused of being a typical chaveunist pig. We need to take care of our looks nowadays, women want their men good looking, but not TOO much or we are "posers".
We have to be stallions in bed, and make sure YOU are satisfied, even if our body was ready to orgasm 20 minutes before yours was, and we have been stressfully trying to think unsexy thoughts and keep up a frantic pace!
Men are allowed to cry nowadays, thats ok. But dont BAWL in public for gods sake man! A gentle tear down the side of the face will suffice, that way you look strong and sensitive.
Pressure from women, pressure from ourselves, pressure pressure pressure...
No wonder so many young men suffer from mental illness nowadays.
"We have to be stallions in bed, and make sure YOU are satisfied, even if our body was ready to orgasm 20 minutes before yours was, and we have been stressfully trying to think unsexy thoughts and keep up a frantic pace!"
LOL
by aya on Sun May 06, 07 4:13pm
[+]
"Well, that is because you are such a ladies man, KAG"
I wish!  But thanks anyway snookums 
"Well, with my breasts, I really should have had at least one boyfriend by now"
LMAO 
Aya, I like your personality (or what I know of it from this site). You seem like a sensitive, complex, genuinly sweet person. Also, from what I've heard from people who have seen your picture, you are a fox, and I have something of a fetish for Sotuh Asian women actually.
Oh, and I think its safe to say I would love your breasts, lol.
Basically, I have a feeling that If I ever met you I would SERIOUSLY be trying to get into your panties  . So why you havent had a boyfriend IS a mystery to me.
Well, I have had a few guys hit on me, but nothing serious, and only went out with one guy, then broke it off, 'cause he only wanted sex.
I appreciate the comments, KAG
by aya on Sun May 06, 07 4:32pm
[+]
You say "slut" like it's a bad thing.
^
brilliantly conceived ballot topic, larry. You've obviously struck a chord here; but, (lmao) what the heck is the connection with the associated pic? That's what I wanta know.
^Imagine what would be said if that was a woman dressed that way next to that primate, she probably would be called a slut.
Voted : Comment
It is unjust that it is more acceptable for men to be promiscuous than women. It is a disgusting patriarchy that must be worked at to be brought down.
Arguments of biology can only go so far until one is suddenly justifying some of the worst oppressive social constructions existent on this planet in regards to gender relations.
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