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COMMENTS:
Voted : My Comments Are As Follows
I understand all you are saying Patch and I agree,will be many many years before they get majority of their people out of poverty, but they are buying up companies left and right, on BBC the other day they reported that in 3 years, China will out spend the USA in research and development of new products.
^Maybe I didn't really answer the ballot questions , if companies did pull out anytime in the near future , that would be a problem for China.
What companies are they buying up? See, you hear that, but what are they? Now the fact is, they are entering into major partnerships with many westerc companies, like Thomspson/RCA, which is French and they have deals with Motorola, but buying up companies? Which ones?
Sorry, as for R&D yes, they may ver well outspend us on that level, but I'd be suspect on that. Are you familiar with Intelectual Property Theft? Google it and China and so some research. China for example, will take intelectual property, copy it and pirate copies are all over China. So someone writes a "How to Book" and it is copywrited. In China, they will just translate the book, print it and sell it, without ever giving credit or without ever paying the rightful fees, etc. So on R&D, I'm sorry to say, they steal what they can. I don't see them wanting to actually spend money on R&D. I know the government of China is trying to crack down on it, but the "they" is because it is systemic in China. They are not yet ready to play by the rules.
Here is a good example. In China, if they do it, it's okay. But if a western country tries to block China on any issues, then that Western country is "retaliating."
From a CNN Expose:
But increasingly, Chinese companies are benefiting from nationalist feeling, gaining market share in sectors such as passenger cars and consumer electronics that were previously the exclusive province of foreign companies. The 2008 Olympics in Beijing will likely add more kindling to this nationalist spark.
The government is also making an effort to reduce dependence on foreigners for manufacturing and technology transfer. Preferential tax rates for foreign companies - now at 15 percent, compared with 33 percent for Chinese - are set to end this year. And last fall the Communist Party Congress endorsed a push for "Chinese innovation" by doubling the amount spent on R&D.
To help reduce China's dependence on foreign companies, Beijing has set a target of 60 percent for domestic car brands sold by 2010, largely by providing consumer financing and incentives. Today, Chinese-branded cars claim little more than 20 percent of a market dominated by Buicks, Volkswagens and Toyotas. But in March, Chery sold more cars in China than any other automaker.
Foreigners also are being kept from buying major stakes in industries deemed sensitive to government interests, including cement, soybeans and finance. While such moves are viewed as retaliation for the U.S. refusal to let China National Offshore Oil Corp. buy Unocal in 2005, they have been strengthened by economic nationalism and entrenched as policy.
My beef with China is not being a superpower, my beef with them is their human rights violations. It can't stay that with rudimentary (more than rudimentary free markets). They're human rights violations are just appaling.
by aya on Wed Aug 08, 07 12:17pm
[+]
I hear this almost weekly on BBC, of China buying companies in Europe and other parts of the world, IBM personal computer division Maytag for example,others I can't remember, not something I'm really interested in so the company names didnt' stick in my head, but just this morning they reported China's Lenovo is in talks with Packard Bell BV, the Europe-based computer maker. I get all this from BBC, not like I'm hearing it on the street.
"don't see them wanting to actually spend money on R&D.patch"
The report was from BBC that in 3 years they will outspend the USA, which currently spends most on R&D
Are you familiar with Intelectual Property Theft
Yes, I'm familiar with that.
Maybe BBC is wrong, I dont know, as I said never really gave it a lot of thought , I'm just saying what I hear reported.
I'm not saying what China is doing is fair trade, I hate their human rights records, I hate the outsourcing of jobs , I hate Walmart and other companies that ignore the Human rights and working conditions in China , and disappointed with consumers for buying so much useless junk made there.
Pefect examples. Shows why news "bites" never give the whole or right story. The bid for Maytag was withdrawn.
"NEW YORK (MarketWatch) - Shares of Maytag Corp. sank Wednesday after a consortium of China's Qindao Haier Ltd. and two U.S. equity partners abandoned its bid to buy the American household appliance manufacturer."
They were blocked from buying UNOCAL.
They bought only the Laptop division from IMB and I don't think it's working out they way they had hoped.
I promise I'm not picking on you Larry, but it proves my point that the frenzy is spilling into mainstream media like CNN and the BBC.
^okay
I know you aren't picking on me patch, I just wrote what I heard reported, I never did any research myself, you have the statistics , so I'll give you the benifit of the doubt, no problem ;)
Part of it is the Geek in me, but also partly because I have to go the extra mile in news since I tend to have an issue with attention. So for me, if I hear something on the news, I usually have to investigate it more and that is what led me to realize how frenzied the media is. It's sort of become a mission of mine to sort through all the Bulls**t in the mainstream news to get to the truth.
I have a problem with the fact that we are handing over our cash to the communist regime. the same regime that has nukes pointed at us right now.
When a business produces product in USA to sell to americans, they have to meet certain rules, such as product safety and minimum wage. If they want to sell the product here, they should meet the same criteria, that's only fair to american producers of goods.
US companies should allow chinese citizens to come to US and produce goods here, and pay US taxes and consume US services, rather than making a communist regime flush with cash and make them more powerful.
Freedom should rule. Commies suck :(
by LCD on Wed Aug 08, 07 1:37pm
[+]
Let me ask you this: Who made all of those products before China? They were good paying jobs held by Americans. Its like the auto factory jobs being shipped to Mexico. What happened to the workers who use to have those jobs in the US? There aren't and weren't high paying jobs with good benefits just laying around for these workers. They got screwed. Just check out Detroit and you will see what happened.
You look at one side of the equation. Yes, they are American companies and yes, this apparently helps them be more profitable. That's all fine and dandy if you own the company or own stock in the company. Its not cool if you used to do that job and the job got shipped to China. People used to be told that the US would shift to a high tech economy. Now, that's not really true. Jobs that require technical expertise such as programming and design of computer parts are often done completely without any American involvement. Lets not even talk about customer service jobs. That used to be one of those promised new fields for those who used to work in industry. Now it isn't. You are much more likely to talk to someone in India with poor English skills than an American.
You miss the whole point of what bloggers and others say. Tell me what the average American gets out of this outsourcing. They lose their job, find one that pays less and then buy products and food from China that is toxic and poisonous. You also get a situation where both parents have to work, many people are doing worse off at this point than their parents and a continued drain of good jobs elsewhere.
Its all short-term gain. It used to be that the captains of industry wanted American companies with American workers to be the best in the world. The thought of shipping jobs off to a communist or dictator run company would have been seen as treasonous.
Tincan, I'm not sure why your reply is so presumptive. You are reading much more into my ballot and subsequent comments than is the reality.
I don't know why you are approaching this from the perspective of "YOU!!" as if I have stated one way or the other my feelings on the issues you raise. I don't believe I have. I have presented a ballot that seeks to bring to light the fact that the media frenzy surrounding the "China issue" is in fact, perpetuating baseless facts and half-truths. You reference bloggers and indeed, I have an issue with people who garner their news from blogs, because very often, it is pure nonsense. I try to get my facts from multiple news sources, as well as people who are well known experts in international trade, finance and manufacturing.
So while I appreciate your input and respect your opinions, it seems to me you are making assumptions about my perspective and they happen to be wrong.
I would also suggest, TinCan, that you research manufacturing stats for the United States. You will find the trend has been that automation has displaced workers, but that American manufacturing facilities are actually ahead of the pace they were in the late 1940's and 1950's. Further, you may just find that the numbers of jobs lost to outsourcing, are now in the White Collar sector of manufacturing, and not on "the floor." Just a suggestion though.
Voted : My Comments Are As Follows
Facts:
China has overtaken the US as the no 1 polluter
China will overtake the US economy as the biggest economy within 10 years at current growth rates (mainly financed by the US)
They wont even admit how much they spend on military, but they have more trained soldiers than anyone, by a long shot, (what is more effective? an apache helecopter or 1000 men with an RPG)
Human rights? what human rights
they build poor quality junk that is dumped on our shores
once resources get more scarce, i know where they will find them, north America, south america & austrailia
better brush up on your mandirin
by ABC on Wed Aug 08, 07 3:15pm
[+]
ABC, those are not facts at all. This is what I'm talking about. You presented the baseless hype as fact, but nothing to back it up and it's quite wrong.
"China will overtake the US economy as the biggest economy within 10 years at current growth rates (mainly financed by the US)"
Wrong. China is not nearly at that pace and they are at least 30 years away from equalling the EU or the USA in terms of economy. The TRUE economy of China hovers at around $5 trillion. The USA has an economy approaching $14 trillion and the entire EU is about $12 trillion. The USA adds approximately $420 billion per year to the economy and China adds roughly $450 billion to it's economy per year. In 10 years, that puts the U.S. economy at $18.2 trillion and the EU at about $16 trillion and...it puts China at about $9.5 to $10 Trillion. Research it. Back out their trade data on manufactured and exported goods that are not theirs and you'll see the reality.
according to the CIA world fact book,
GDP
USA 13,130,000,000,000
EU $ 13,060,000,000,000
China $ 10,170,000,000,000
at a growth of 10%/year less the 3% the US is growing at they will catch up in as little as 4 years
the only article i couldnt find is the pollution one
all the other things stated i cant see where the argument is
by ABC on Wed Aug 08, 07 4:14pm
[+]
The CIA Factbook? Okay, didn't you see this fact in there on China:
GDP (official exchange rate):
$2.518 trillion (2006 est.)
And the U.S. economy grows at about 3.5% - 4% annually. Avoid the CIA Factbook or at least research other sources that are focused on economies, etc.
ABC, this is from China's embassy. Granted it's 2004 data for 2003, but here is their GDP for 2003:
hina's gross domestic product (GDP) in 2003 hit 11.694 trillion yuan (US$1.414 trillion), up 9.1 per cent over the previous year, the National Bureau of Statistics said Tuesday.
The Link: http://ph.chineseembassy.org/eng/sgdt/t83718.htm
Accordig to Xinhua News, in 2005 their economy was:
"China's GDP reached 18 trillion yuan in 2005, or 2.23 trillion U.S. dollars, the fourth largest in the world."
I pointed out they add about $450 billion annually, so they went from $1.414 trillion in 2003 to about $2.23 trillion in 2005 (an increase of $816 billion in 2 years, or about $408 billion per year).
Holding true to that growth, it would mean in 2006 they went to about $2.60 trillion and by end of 2007 to maybe $3 Trillion.
the GDP #'s are listed in US $, if every site can contradict another then we both know nothing
by ABC on Wed Aug 08, 07 6:37pm
[+]
ok, you got me, and as far as the cia factbook goes, its inaccurate i can see that just by looking at what #'s they have on canada
by ABC on Wed Aug 08, 07 6:41pm
[+]
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