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COMMENTS:
I think it's a national disgrace
Voted : All of the above
Me too, Larry.
by mojo on Mon Aug 13, 07 5:00am
[+]
Voted : stress and bad diet
it's declining becuz most americans are living manic lives, both parents work, 4 kids, bills to pay, driving the kid to soccer, the whole bit. so their diet has gotten worse and they eat more ready-made meals.
there was a whole study done on it. it has everything to do with stress and diet.
it is larry, but let me ask you this. what is wrong with parents that live manic lives and expose their kids to that?
i have a friend and she and her husband have 3 kids -- a boy and 2 twin girils. every time we talk to her, she's manic -- she's driving one kid to a play date, the other to dance then the other to pee-wee softball, then back to get the one kid at dance, then the other at the play date, then one has to go to the dentist, blah, blah blah.
i'm telling you it's freaking nuts! they moved to the burbs for "peace and quiet" and they have anything but. it's total mania all day, all week. she's making herself sick and her kids freaks because they have no time to just play and be themselves. her husband tells us they're always whaling around town in the back of a mini-van. it's nuts.
There are no soccer moms in western Europe? of the 41 countries with higher life expectancy, they dont have stress?
and poor diet larry. read above. stress, and yes, americans tend to be much more frenzied in our lives. you must have been to europe and seen it? right? so it's a manic life, work, stress and really poor diet. how hard is that to figure out larry? when did it start to decline? when both parents started working, etc. etc.
do some research
there was a whole study done on it. it has everything to do with stress and diet.
by Kev24 on Mon Aug 13, 07 5:20am
^ in case you missed it the first time.
yes I saw the diet comment, I'm sure that plays big part, but somehting else going on imo,
A relatively high percentage of babies born in the U.S. die before their first birthday, compared with other industrialized nations.
People not being able to afford preventive med also has a lot to do with it IMO, maybe they need someone to give them advice on proper foods, something a doctor might beable to do if they could afford to see one, fresh foods, healthy foods cost more than not so healthy, after my heart attack I was put on a diet of fresh fruits and vegs, there is a big difference in the prices. People in lower income might not beable to afford. I don't believe it's all about soccer moms grabbing a quick not so healthy meal on way to practice
Forty countries, including Cuba, Taiwan and most of Europe had lower infant mortality rates than the U.S. in 2004. The U.S. rate was 6.8 deaths for every 1,000 live births. It was 13.7 for Black Americans, the same as Saudi Arabia.
i'm not disagreeing with you on that point at all. but you know how i am with 'studies" they're flawed for so many reasons. here's some factors --
stress, poor diet, immigration, pollution, etc. what these studies always leave out is pertinent facts, like the rise in immigration, legal and illegal. those birth stats include babies born to illegal aliens. most of them don't speak english and live outside the mainstream so they don't go to any doctor cuz they're afraid to. that's just one example of a huge stat that's not included.
i know people think i'm heartless for saying this larry but not being able to afford medical attention? it's free to the poor. there are free clinics, mobile clinics, you name it. sorry but that's just not as big a factor as people claim. any person with no insurance can go to any hospital and get treatment cuz it's free to them through the government. add to that free clinics that are in every poor neighborhood. i see them advertised in spanish and english on the subways -- and it's all free. almost every single small, mid or large city in this country has them. i'm just saying that it's blown way out of proportion to say people can't afford it. especially pre-natal care.
If you are in a certain income bracket it is not free, a hospital can not refuse to treat you because you have no insurance but the bills will arrive shortly, they will do anything to collect, take from your paycheck, seize your bank accounts, even if the only money you have in your bank account is your rent or food money ,free clinics , yes we have in Elmira, but in many cases they are Overwhelmed and do not include medication
Medicaid is for the very poor, many people do not fall under that category, we have users on this site who I won’t mention because they may not want me to, who are having trouble getting medication because the fall through the cracks of our system, me for example, my dad pays 700 dollars a month for my medications because his insurance no longer covers, that’s a lot for us, he is now looking at Canada for less price drugs, that is sad, supposedly the richest country on the planet and he has to turn to another country to get his kids medication. Yes, I could use my college fund, but that would be depleted, would only be a short term solution.
^ you know what, you're right. but who's fault is it? the governments? yours? or is the fault of greedy insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies or doctors? i don't know the answer to that. but as for medicaid, do you know what income bracket they have to be in?
the other thing i want to ask larry is -- are americans themselves party to blame? yeah, they are.
americans want it all but don't want to have taxes raised ever. they want it all, but still want to be able to buy cheap imports from china. americans are like a bi-polar person. "give us all we want government, just stay out of my life and don't raise my taxes." so how do americans think the government can do it all? we want a strong military, yet we complain about the cost. we want social security, yet refuse to pay more for it. we want universal healtcare, yet will not fork over one dime more in taxes.
i'm not defedning the goverment, turst me, but the fact is, americans are soft and act like spoiled childred. we never want to sacrifice but still want it all.
It's at the povery level for medicaid, socialsecurity75 gave the best example, he said when his wife became ill , he had to sell his house, deplete his savings just to pay for her hospital bills, it wasn’t until his income was at the poverty level that she was eligible for medicaid, . He worked all of his life did everything the system expected of him and he died a poor man, all because his wife became ill.
Most everyone I speak to want some sort of health care and say they are willing to pay the extra taxes to cover it, people complain about higher taxes around the globe, but if it's for a worthy cause, they're pay it. This government waste so much money. I they seem to find money for a war the majority of Americans dont want.
^they seem to,
Voted : stress and bad diet
(Bad choices, too.)
there was more to an article i just read --
Another reason for the U.S. drop in the ranking is that the Census Bureau now tracks life expectancy for a lot more countries - 222 in 2004 - than it did in the 1980s. However, that does not explain why so many countries entered the rankings with longer life expectancies than the United States.
Murray, from the University of Washington, said improved access to health insurance could increase life expectancy. But, he predicted, the U.S. won't move up in the world rankings as long as the health care debate is limited to insurance.
Policymakers also should focus on ways to reduce cancer, heart disease and lung disease, said Murray. He advocates stepped-up efforts to reduce tobacco use, control blood pressure, reduce cholesterol and regulate blood sugar.
"Even if we focused only on those four things, we would go along way toward improving health care in the United States," Murray said. "The starting point is the recognition that the U.S. does not have the best health care system. There are still an awful lot of people who think it does."
^ the 4 things he's talking about are
"tobacco use, control blood pressure, reduce cholesterol and regulate blood sugar"
even if you are correct kev, nothing to be proud of, we are bunch of fat slobs with poor eating habits and lifesyles and the fact we dont have health insurance for all is a separate issue. We are number 1, we are number 1, I'm actually getting little tired of hearing that, I'm beginning to understand why so many people around the globe feel the way they do toward us.
^sad but true at this point :(
but who is saying 'we're number 1, we're number 1" larry. piece of sound and friendly advice -- just because you read it, doesn't make it true. just because you hear it, doesn't make it true.
you're talking in generalities here. who is running around proclaming we're number 1? you seem to have just given up.
sad. well, best of luck to you champ.
you have totally taken everything i wrote and came away with the complete opposite of the true meaning. but yeah, we are a nation of over-weight, whiners. that's my experience.
I'm actually getting little tired of hearing that, I'm beginning to understand why so many people around the globe feel the way they do toward us.
by larrynelmira on Mon Aug 13, 07 10:09am
ha! trust me. they're just like that in italy. just like that in the u.k, just like that in spain, just like that in russia. trust me larry, americans don't have a corner on the market when it comes to patriotism. trust me.
so you think this is why the world feels the way they do about us? funny you think that way larry, cuz the reality is, part of our culture is to challenge. it's to not accept what we're told at face value but to look at it for ourselves. that bothers some people. maybe what they say ends up to be true, but we look at it first. ever wonder why that trait would bother people? so ask yourself -- is it worse to be the one who challenges and looks at all points, or is it worse to be the person that hates you for doing that? hmmmm.
read the economist.
Preventive medicine is what we need, affordable access to medical care, making it possible for people to earn enough to buy the foods that are healthy, not having to go to Canada or Mexico for our medications, not having to sell our soul if we need medical care.
I can't see how anything else can be right until this is corrected
^Feel free to disagree, :)
Voted : fat and lazy
I don't know if Jordan has national health insurance or not, although lack of it in the US is also a major problem.
i do disagree larry and so did this guy from your study --
Murray, from the University of Washington, said improved access to health insurance could increase life expectancy. But, he predicted, the U.S. won't move up in the world rankings as long as the health care debate is limited to insurance.
it's like saying that once we do what you describe, all of a sudden americans will stop eating unhealthy foods, stop smokine, stop drinking, the whole bit.
this goes way beyond that. way beyond. anyone could argue that the poor diets and lack of exercise by many americans is over-burdening the sytem itself.
sorry but i'm just not in agreement that what you point out as the problems is the answer. it's systemic and it means an entire shift in people's lifestyle, way of thinking, behavior, etc. if you think national healtcare is going to solve all that, i disagree. in the u.k, 1 in 4 people are obese, in the u.s.a it's 1 in 3. not that big of a difference.
my way of thinking is that if you're going to fix it, do it right the first time and don't just slap a bandaid on it
I personally would pay higher taxes for national health care. Maybe they could tax cheeseburgers?
no it wouldn't be an instant remedy, but it would be on the right path to solving the problem. I should do some research and find how many people die because they couldn’t afford to go to the doctor or afford their medications, or the stress they must have, worrying about that.
So many variables though I wouldn’t know if the study was correct , or I could ask Doctors in the ER how many people have died because they waited until their heart stopped beating before seeking help, because they had no health insurance. Hmmmm, what to do what to do
at least skylab is honest and says he'd pay higher taxes. how many americans would say the same? like i said, americans want it all but never want to make any sacrifices to pay for things. sure, just give 300 million people free healthcare. it's only run about a $trillion per year. chump change. or, maybe start by tackeling pharmaceutical prices and doctor's fees and then once that's in check, roll out a national healthcare package.
here's my challenge larry -- are you willing to give up social security to cover a national healthcare plan? (socialized medicine). how about a huge income, sales and property tax increase? would you support that?
you may, but wait till they try it and all the fat, spoiled americans who want it all for nothing start bitching and carrying on. it's why no politician wants to tackle it.
As I said, we found money for a war that everyone is bitching about and it's still raging, I believe we could find money for national health care of some sort. Most of the people I know including most of my family are in the lower income brackets, just high enough not to be eligible for medicaid and such, but not by any means high enough to afford out of pocket expenses for health insurance or care. But they would be able to and have said they would pay higher taxes if necessary to pay for health care, if it’s spread out over entire population it’s affordable. This country can do better. It’s a sad state of affairs in my opinion.
^ who's arguing with you? you seem to want to make it me. am i? so we can find the money. no, we can't. we can find it if we cut all other spending and raise taxes. that's been proposed for social security. alan greesnpan proposed it and the ben bernake proposed it. it did not meet with much approval by the public or politicians.
our government is already spending way more thant they can. hence the massive, massive budget deficit. so if they can't even fix social security and medicare is rife with fraud, they should just go ahead and totally bankrupt us?
the fix is to overhaul the system first. what costs more? the dr. the hospital or the drugs that are over-prescribed. you're talking about over-hauling a massive bureacracy. i'm all for it, but i'm not just for socializing an already corrupt system.
So in the mean time while we debate overhauling the system, people are dying, Social Security and medicare is a mess, but they aren't cutting that program, why not stop all payments until they figure out how to fix it, if you are homeless or freeze in the mean time, well I guess that’s just to bad.
The point is, when they need money for war it's there, when they need money for health care, somehow they can't find it, if your house if burning down, the fire dept doesn’t say sorry, there is corruption in the city government, we have to fix that first then we will put your fire out.
Some things can’t wait, being able to afford medical care is one of those things, just as police force, fire depts are essential part of any country, so is medical care to all who need it at an affordable price.
I'm sure countries who do have socialized medical care have problems, but they have their priorities together, stopping someone from dying or suffering needlessly because they can't afford their medication is barbaric, yes, I said it , barbaric
They made sure President Bush got the camera stuck up his ass last week, many Americans don’t' even have that luxury of PREVENTIVE MEDICINE , which in the long run actually would save billions of dollars.
Preventive medicine would cost quite a bit less than passing the cost of emergency room care for the poor through insurance companies to the public.
The longer they put if off, the more people will die needlessly, the longer preventive medicine can start having effect and the more money it will cost in the long run.
fine larry. who's arguing with you? are you trying to convince me or yourself. so how much money would it take? you say they have money for wars? they did, cuz we once again went into critical mass and budget over-runs for that. so debate on over-hauling it is a problem? sure it is. who said debate it? how about implementing a plan to over-haul it first.
say lar, how much money per year do you think is lost due to medicaid and medicare scams? how much money would a national healthcare plan cost? preventitive? what? you mean like -- "eat healthy" "don't smoke" "exercise" stuff like that? we all know that. preventitive as in "go to the doctor and the government will pay?" how much? what rate? a $ trillion was a way low ball.
I'm sure countries who do have socialized medical care have problems, but they have their priorities together, stopping someone from dying or suffering needlessly because they can't afford their medication is barbaric, yes, I said it , barbaric
by larrynelmira on Mon Aug 13, 07 2:38pm
^ do they? aya posted a ballot the other day. guess it's not all perfect. so it's barbaric. whose fault is that? the government? but wait! americans want less government. that's right, i said it. less! so which is it? americans want social security. but wait! don't tax me more to pay for it!
americans want to stroll into wal mart to buy any manner of goods made in china and wait! they will not -- will not! pay too much. so which is it? want cheap goods made in china so annie americana can have new curtains, but wait! "we have a national crisis on our hands cuz we keep sending jobs overseas!" whine, bitch, moan, gnash teeth.
americans bitch and moan about national healthcare as they wear size 40 waist pants, eat mcdonalds and guzzle coca-cola. yeah, we have it all together.
so when your taxes double, social security is cut to the bone and old folk have no income, let's talk. or, you can make the sacrifice to implement a sweeping over-haul of our entire economy. and then, when it's in tatters, well, then we can all clap hands that a nation with a rapidly growing population has socialized medicine. and of course, we want it yesterday.
oh yeah, the government can't run the educational system, so let's privatize it. nope. americans don't want that. they don't like it the way it is, but they won't offer any concessions to change it. how the frick can anyone govern in a country in which the people are so self-indulged and have no idea what they want? so run for office and solve it all and have a national healthcare plan in place within the first year or -- we'll vote your party out. and pssst, you can't raise taxes or cut programs to finance it. good luck!
preventive medicine is being able to see a doctor on a regular bases , to catch problems before they become even bigger, to have blood test and procedures that can find cancers and other deceases before they become a major health problem, to save money by not forcing people to visit the ER for their health care needs, And of course people need to also be reasonable for their life style and do what is healthy.
The fact is, people are dying and suffering because they can't afford health care, the fact is preventive medicine as I stated above could save billions of dollars and many lives. You want to wait until the system is overhauled, I can not imagine anyone saying stop all the programs where there is fraud and waste, let people fend for themselves until the system is fixed .
No one should die because they can’t afford to see a doctor , no one should have to wait until the government gets their act together and fix the fraud, I will not accept reasoning for anyone to suffer or die because they have lack of health care. No more than I would accept the fire dept not putting out a house fire because there is corruption in city hall, or someone will not receive social security benefit because that system has problems. People are dying. You have the right to your opinion, but if we stop every program that has fraud , the country will seize to operate. From the White House all the way down to the street sweepers.
Again, no one should have to die or suffer because we have a government that can’t do it’s job or because some people abuse the system, but many more do not abuse it, why should they have to suffer for wrongs others do?
^ and again, who is arguing with you? me? show me where? your proposal seems reasonable. and so i ask, how much? what are the rates that doctors or labs can charge to run the tests? do we just expand medicare to include the entire country and keep the same acceptable rates scale? how do you prevent fraud.
nothing you're saying is unreasonable. i have yet to see anyone says it is. you keep telling me i have the right to my opinion and that's real magnanomous of you, but what is my opinion? you seem to know better than i do.
Someone just died because no health care, just as we are not going to stop social security or medicare because those recipients can’t live without , people can’t wait for the system to be overhauled for medical needs. You say who is arguing that point, you just did when you said why not overhaul the system first, I don’t know how to fix the problem, I’m not sure our government really has the desire to fix it. But as I said, no one should wait until the system is overhauled and hope they don’t die first. Also, I don’t know these people who say they wouldn’t pay higher taxes for health care,the ones I know don't say that, people balked at President Bush plan about social security because they didn’t trust him, not that every plan would have been shot down if he presented one that people could believe in and trust. You say you agree everyone should have affordable health care now, okay, I’m happy you feel that way.
I told you I dont know how to fix the system, you agree everyone should have affordable health care , we agree . If only they could sign it into law tomorrow.
You say who is arguing that point, you just did when you said why not overhaul the system first, I don’t know how to fix the problem, I’m not sure our government really has the desire to fix it.
^ so anyone who has a different approach is aruging with you? so you're way is the right way and the only way? you're arguing with no one larry. it's all about implemenation. you see it one way, i see it the other. you want it yesterday and i want it done right so it's workable and won't bankrupt the country. it's easy to say what you're saying -- it's an emotional argument. but it's easy to snap our fingers and say "do it!" but is that the best approach? i'll keep sticking to my interpretation of what i think needs to be done and you keep sticking to yours. it supports my belief that the american public is bi-polar. yes. no. now, wait. uhh, i'm not sure. yeah, do it. but wait, don't cut funding for this to pay for it. okay, go ahead. wait! taxes? me? pay more? no way.
Also, I don’t know these people who say they wouldn’t pay higher taxes for health care,the ones I know don't say that, people balked at President Bush plan about social security because they didn’t trust him, not that every plan would have been shot down if he presented one that people could believe in and trust.
^ so people you know are the barometer? the pulse of the nation? do you follow politics at all? then you should know that most americans say one thing one day, then another the next. that's not secret. it's public record. i could give you endless examples. but i sort of already have.
I'll stick to my decision that this nation needs some sort of affordable health care fast, that if the right plan is presented, I believe Americans will live with the higher taxes, and in the long run, through preventive medicine, not only billions of dollars will be saved millions of lives will be as well.
Another thing, sometimes countries do things the majority of the people don't like so the minority can be protected. Certain services are a given right in a civilized country, and IMO only, I believe affordable health care is one of those rights. MY opinion only, I'm not asking you to agree with that. If you say at this point in time , most American's dont want higher taxes for health care, I'll give you that, because I don't know the numbers, see I can admit when I might be wrong. I’ll even admit I may have taken some of your comments above the wrong way, I'm not so immature I can't do that.
^ but you hint that i can't admit that i'm wrong. through all these ballots and pm's, all you did was to jump to conclusions and totally min-understand what i was saying. no amount of explanation was good enough. you decided you would tell me how it is and tell me what i'm all about and at every turn you were off the mark. off it? hell, you didn't even come close to hitting it. so if you want to show me where i was wrong, go right ahead. but then again, if you say tomahto and i say to-may-toe, am i wrong or are you, or is neither?
^ off the mark meaning in your dictation of "me" and what i'm all about.
but you hint that i can't admit that i'm wrong
nope , that wasn't my intention at all.
Many of your comments pushed the wrong buttons with me, I got the impression you were saying it's the peoples fault they don't have affordable health care and that you were putting up road blocks whenever possible so this would never happen.
If I was wrong about that I do apologize, it's a touchy subject with me and one of my pet projects and I won’t back down on the fact that this country should be ashamed when it comes to this issue.
I have nothing more to add to this ballot.
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