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COMMENTS:
Voted : hey! read my comment below buddy!
LOSS OF CIVIL LIBERTIES IN THE U.K , bollocks!
This judge passed his opinion, just like anyone's entitled too. The Government, when asked, stated there is no plans to do such a thing. So ner, ner buddy! 
Thoughtfully worry about yer own 'patriotic' problems. 
^ ah -ha! see, dude, when it's about the usa and you guys are saying it, it's gospel. it's fact and it's all true. if we express a contrary view, we're just "nationalistic, flag-wavers."
but oh no -- if it's about the u.k, it's bollocks! haha!
i love it! 
hmmm, what about this fact --
Britain's 12-year-old DNA database is the largest of any country in the world, growing by 30,000 samples a month. According to the Home Office website, 5.2% of the UK population is on the database, compared with 0.5% in the US.
What you forgot to mention, is the current system helped solve 45,000 crimes last year, including 422 murders and manslaughters and 645 rapes.
DNA is only collected from people who have been arrested for crimes. IMO, if repeat offenders are arrested on DNA evidence it can only be a good thing.
Coming from a country which has thousands of unsolved murders each year, I'd of thought you'd would have viewed it as a good idea, bud. 
^ see, you just can't help yourself. face it dude, you guys come on here and slam us and tell us "how it is" in our own country and we say "dudes, worry about your own backyard" and you guys go postal and tell us we're "blind to the truth."
hmm, but now that you guys are seeing whats happening in europe and we're having some fun pointing it out, you guys go all nationalistic and do just what you say we do. ahhh, i love it!
so keep telling yourself all the dna databases, and the cameras and the listening devices and the rfid tags and the tracking of all motor vehicles is not a threat to your civil liberties. 
I didn't say all what you've said was bollocks. I said the statement 'loss of civil liberties in the UK' was. you made it sound like gospel, which it isn't.
John Carvel and Lucy Ward
Wednesday January 24, 2007
The Guardian
An overwhelming majority of people in Britain are willing to surrender civil liberties to help tackle the threat of terrorism, the nation's leading social research institute will disclose today.
The survey found seven in every 10 people think compulsory identity cards for all adults would be "a price worth paying" to reduce the threat of terrorism. Eight in 10 say the authorities should be able to tap the phones of people suspected of involvement in terrorism, open their mail and impose electronic tagging or home curfews.
Lol, the 'worry about your own backyard'ish comment was a joke in reply to your, 'you guys were thoughtfully worried about us in the usa' comment.
I don't mind people picking apart the flaws in our country, IF it's well reasearched! 
'researched'! Shit!
I don't know where they got them numbers from, not one person I know would agree to any of that.
^ and it is well researched. got it all form mainstream news sources.
right now i'm just busting your chops, but come one man -- how many of your fellow countrymen flip out all over this site with the cassandra like warnings of doom and gloom about the usa and all they do is criticize us and make stupid claims that are total bullshit? quite a few of them.
so it's kind of sweet justice to point out the fact that you guys are now as fat as americans and are just as screwed with your freedoms as we are. facts!
"britviccc, he's right. come'ohn open your eyyes. hillary and i are praying for you europeans to weather the storm. now buy my new book."
^ ha! blame the guardian. they presented the facts cuz a national survey was done in the u.k.
so hmmm, you don't like the results, so you now deny the research. boy, you're sounding more and more like americans everyday. 
Right, first of all, just cos we got the fattest asses in europe, does NOT mean we are now as fat as americans.
Second, 'national survey'? that's a piss take, no-one asked me or anyone I know.
Ohh, the Gaurdian, Southern poncey newspaper, it all makes perfect sense now.  
^ yep, just like what you guys say we sound like 
Touche' 
I think the main problem with this issue is why the judge suggested this plan in the first place. Apparently the large majority of British citizens who have their DNA on the database are of an ethnic origin. This is the judges primary reason in expressing his desire for a national DNA database, to ensure that ethnic minorities are not unfairly represented on the system. If you ask me, the fact that eleven year old boys are being shot dead in the street is a far more pressing factor in the decision as to whether or not go ahead with this proposal. It's the same issue time and time again, should civil liberties be sacrificed for the sake of a potentially safer society. In my opinion, No, the price is far too high.
fyi here's who did the survey
The findings come from the annual British Social Attitudes survey, based on interviews with a sample of 3,000 adults by the National Centre for Social Research.
Voted : hey! read my comment below buddy!
Sometimes I think you two need to get a room.
They have already lost most of it already. There is a security camera(s) on nearly every street. Around 4.2 million in the UK as of 2002. About 1 camera for every 14 people. Big brother is watching YOU.
^ Yep, there goes another expert in second hand knowledge. What online news rag do you read?
There's no cameras in any of the streets where I live, cept in the city centre. :o)
^ sorry but he's right. hmmm, so the brits will say americans don't get the real news. maybe its you guys who don't. we read it all the time in the timesonline, the guardian, financial times. it's true. they even are installing cameras that can be voice activated in the u.k so the cops can listen in on street talk -- if they hear what they call "anti-social behavior, they move in. facts.
"hehe, you brits are way ahead of us in opressing the people, hehe."
Experts have called for a halt in the spread of CCTV cameras.
Britain is now being watched by a staggering 4.2million - one for every 14 people and a fifth of the cameras in the entire world.
The Royal Academy of Engineering also warned that lives could be put at risk by the lurch towards a 'big brother' society in which the Government and even supermarkets hold huge amounts of personal information on us.
It said any system was vulnerable to abuse - including bribery of staff and computer hackers gaining access.
One of the report's authors, Professor Nigel Gilbert, said the number of CCTV cameras in Britain is so large that the installation of any more should be halted until the need for them is proven. The average Londoner may be monitored by up to 300 every day.
Britain relies on the cameras far more than other countries, accounting for 20 per cent of all such technology used across the world, despite having just one per cent of the globe's population.
Professor Gilbert said that, as digital technology improved, there would be no barrier to storing camera images indefinitely.
The use of face-recognition technology would allow the authorities to pinpoint a person's exact location at any given time.
The report added that the Government's plans for storing vast amounts of data on computer databases and microchips posed a huge risk to the public.
The NHS computer system to store patient records, which is currently costing billions to develop, could also jeopardise a person's lifestyle or employment prospects if information leaked out.
The report says examples could include DNA data showing that the presumed father of a child could not be.
The academy also said biometric data stored on radio frequency microchips on the Government's new passports - the technology which will be used for ID cards - could be 'eavesdropped'.
here's the link. don't like this news source? just google an exact key word from part of the article
thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23390407-details
/UK+has+1%25+of+world's+population+but+20%25+of+its+CCTV+cameras/article.do
Do you know what? I give in, ya can't win with people who know everything about all the other countries in the world. That must be good for yas. ;o)
Kev, you've got a great knack of throwing in unrelated facts to back up your weak arguments, which is just plain weird to me. But I see a lot of Americans doing it, so it must be normal in your part of the world. 
I'm not arguing that anything you've quoted is wrong, yep I can read newspapers too.
First this ballot of yours, titled loss of civil liberties in UK, starts with a quote from a Judge saying he wants everyone on a DNA database. Which associates the two things, implying it's going to happen. I argued it isn't.. it's a fact it isn't! Me right, you wrong (an alien concept to you, I know)Anything else you care to throw into the mix, radars up asses, bugged teddy bear boners, tracking devices in plastic gnomes etc are immaterial, cos I was talking about the DNA database, nothing more.
As for Fiddles ridiculous comment, he couldn't be more wrong.
'They have already lost most of it already. There is a security camera(s) on nearly every street'
There isn't, it's a fact!! Or are you going to argue with someone who actually lives in the UK and travels every day in a 8 mile radius and hardly ever sees a camera? You are aren't you? Lol.
Your facts and figures may be right, but as I said it's mainly in cities and high crime areas. Same goes for your speaking lamposts, I've never heard or even seen one for that matter.
So it's hardly a camera on nearly every street is it?  
*Puts feet up and waits for the sparks to fly* ;o)
Do you know what? I give in, ya can't win with people who know everything about all the other countries in the world. That must be good for yas. ;o)
^ but don't you see? that's exactly what you and your fellow euros do to us all the time. your fellow euros tell us like it is. they tell us we're "blind" or that we're "jingonistic, flag-waving rah-rahs." see the point?
no matter what, they're right and we're wrong. they know best and we're just blind sheep. everything is great! on your side of the atlantic, and abysmal here. hmmm. is it really? 
so seriously, it looks to us like you're react exactly -- exactly! like we do and when we do it, you guys freak out on us. but oh no, when you do it, it's cuz we're wrong and you're right. are you so sure anymore?
Kev, you've got a great knack of throwing in unrelated facts to back up your weak arguments, which is just plain weird to me. But I see a lot of Americans doing it, so it must be normal in your part of the world.
^ no, i gave actual, hard and verifiable facts that speak directly to my ballot. anyone with half a brain can see that. you're just pissed because while you guys were peering over the pond at us, surprise!! you were getting screwed. sorry mate, but that is just the fact.
but no criticism of you, but just look at your replies -- exactly the same response we give to users like quirk99 (mobsie) and keithseen. we've totally be laughing like "oh, okay, so that's how it is here in the usa (and they've never even been). but the moment we present facts to you blokes about how much your governments are screwing you -- it's deny, deny, project and deny again. suckers!
Your facts and figures may be right, but as I said it's mainly in cities and high crime areas. Same goes for your speaking lamposts, I've never heard or even seen one for that matter.
^ the facts speak for themselves. they are there. just cuz you don't see them, doesn't mean they're not. and dude, these facts are coming straight from your own country! ha!
here are 2 good examples--
ballot #114004
http://www.bestandworst.com/user/info/?tn=quirk99
'no, i gave actual, hard and verifiable facts that speak directly to my ballot. anyone with half a brain can see that'
Mmmm, let's have a look at some of them facts...
The survey found seven in every 10 people think compulsory identity cards for all adults would be "a price worth paying" to reduce the threat of terrorism. Eight in 10 say the authorities should be able to tap the phones of people suspected of involvement in terrorism, open their mail and impose electronic tagging or home curfews.
That's your hard and verifiable facts, unrelated facts which were meant to disprove what I said about everyone in the UK not going on a national DNA database. What's any of that got to do with what I was discussing? I didn't mention identity cards or phone taps.
'Britain is now being watched by a staggering 4.2million - one for every 14 people and a fifth of the cameras in the entire world.'
I wasn't arguing that there wasn't that many cameras, I was saying there isn't a camaera on nearly every street. I know for a fact there isn't.
All those cameras could be in the same city for all you know, where's your proof that they aren't?
^ hmm, well i guess things are even worse for you guys than you know. all those facts were speaking to the loss of civil liberties in the u.k. you want to try and knit-pick and say "there are no camera's on my street" so? how does that change the fact that according to your own press --
"Britain is now being watched by a staggering 4.2million - one for every 14 people and a fifth of the cameras in the entire world. "
it doesn't. then you argue the dna case. but that does not change the fact that according to your own press --
"Britain's 12-year-old DNA database is the largest of any country in the world, growing by 30,000 samples a month. According to the Home Office website, 5.2% of the UK population is on the database, compared with 0.5% in the US. "
and my stats, again from your own press that --
"the survey found seven in every 10 people think compulsory identity cards for all adults would be "a price worth paying" to reduce the threat of terrorism. Eight in 10 say the authorities should be able to tap the phones of people suspected of involvement in terrorism, open their mail and impose electronic tagging or home curfews." was in response to you scoffing at my ballot premise "loss of civil liberties in the u.k" when you in fact wrote --
"LOSS OF CIVIL LIBERTIES IN THE U.K , bollocks!"
so ya' see, those stats on the facts was indeed, directly related to my ballot. hmmm, you didn't think of that, did you?
don't get mad at us that your government is rapidly positioning itself to opress you. gee, that's not our fault, is it?
Fuck, are we goin' round in circles  
The initial premise of the article was the loss of civil liberties in the UK due to a Judge saying he wants to see everyone on the DNA database. To which I replied 'bollocks', because it isn't on the cards according to the government. Whatever else you said in the ballot I wasn't disputing.
As for the camera facts. Here's how they originally sounded before someone cherry picked what they wanted from the survey outcome.
The exact number of CCTV cameras in the UK is not known but a 2002 working paper by Michael McCahill and Clive Norris of UrbanEye, based on a SMALL sample in Putney High Street, ESTIMATED the number of surveillance cameras in private premises in London is around 500,000 and the total number of cameras in the UK is around about 4,200,000. Also included in the estimate are speed and traffic cameras. (Not exactly an accurate count, eh?)
500,000 in private premises(which isn't Government surveillance)alone in London, that's not including the ones on the streets. So let's say there's another 500,000 in and around London. That's roughly a quarter of the total amount ESTIMATED in the UK. Even if every major city centre only had a quarter of that amount, it's still, 'Hardly a camera on every street' I rest my case, M'Kevvy. 
^ looks to me like you're the one cherry pickin -- until you get results that make you feel better. doesn't make it go away though. sorry man. the facts i put up and i'm sure fiddle put up are current and once again, from your own country. dude, don't worry, move to the united states where we still have civil liberties.
Your results aren't current, there hasn't been a count since. I'm afraid the info you and Fids found is from the same source, but omitting parts which someone doesn't like. (not saying that's you, I've foud the same crap online)
But if it makes you two happy, who am I to pop your bubble?
^ nah. i posted the link too. you can read it directly for yourself. come over this side of the pond for real freedom.
"yeahhh, come'ohn over! hillary and i will fix you some dinner. monica will be there. come to the land of the free."
^ "Hillary and me" NOW you're scaring him away for sure!
I give in, it's too much like arguin' with me granma. 
pipe down! both of ya! shut your dirty mouths or i swear, i'll shut em' for ya. now zip it you two or i'll get ya' i swear i'll get ya' both like no one's evva gotten ya' before!"
Voted : yeah, this worries me. our civil liberties are gone
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve
neither liberty nor safety."- B Franklin
A shame that no one's willing to pay this any heed.
check out this ballot to see the kind of hypocricy that swims across the pond to our free and clean shores --
ballot #105480
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