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COMMENTS:
Don't insult us by trying to hide your true racist self behind a so-called scientific study.
Oh shut up. Racial differences are a fact. This question was provoked by two books called A Question Of Intelligence and Race And Evolution which you should read. Keep the p.c. bullshit off this poll, it's not intended for self-righteous scum. If you have no answer don't fucking post. If leading anthropologists can ponder this question then so can I. Sorry I'm not of the politically brainwashed masses like you, and still have a brain to think about concrete issues rationally.
because I know you've been programmed to completely disregard racial issues and pretend they don't exist, but you know what? They're not going to disappear just because you don't acknowledge them. Outta sight, outta mind huh? That's what's wrong with people, they are afraid to think logically anymore. Thinking of ways to improve black social issues is not racist, it is the only hope they have to finally prosper. If you ignore it, the rich will keep getting richer, the poor poorer, the slums dirtier and the government further split. I wish there was a "Realist" political party so all the liberal and conservative bullshit could be put aside and we could focus on concrete, humane solutions so that all races and groups could be prosperous together. People like you hold everyone back and prevent actual progress from occuring.
black people on the average are all biologically inferior, anytime they try to show you this "great black man', he looks more white than black
Inbred, maybe. The rest I would have to disagree with. Just look at some statistics.
OK I pulled out the Question Of Intelligence book. Here it is. Average white IQ: 102 Average Black IQ: 87
You can pull out the argument that the IQ tests are biased, but fact is the parts of the test where blacks are most deficient are parts where there could be no possible bias, such as block-arrangement, number memory, and pattern recognition, which is based on abstract figures such as triangles and circles. I have taken the WAIS test twice and the Stanford-Binet once; those are the two standard IQ tests. So I speak from experience. Do not tell me there is test bias. That is something the far-leftists and the media eternally perpetuate, yet the VAST majority of Psychiatrists and Psychologists familiar with the tests think there is NO bias. Ahh, but the media never lets you know THAT, does it!
Comments by a066a were written by me.
I never read Mein Kampf. Though I would; I'm never one to turn down a controversial read. But I am racialist, which means I acknowledge racial differences, though I don't assign different worth to races. The Jews, let's see... Personally: perfectly nice people. Politically: Hold too much power in U.S. government.
Blacks? Personally: unique race with rich history, full of passion and joie de vivre. Politically: something needs to change.
Dont matter is a great black person looks more white than black. You can't change what's inside by changing the outside, Michael Jackson is a prime example.
Hey, everyone has their pet issue... race is one of mine. I'm an anthropology major, so I think I'm justified. Nothing wrong with looking at reality and stopping to think; it doesn't make me a bad person. I have a quite varied circle of friends here in Miami; Jews, hispanics, blacks, Asians, whites, a couple of Pakistanis even. You better believe I speak my mind to them. And you know what? They all respect me because I never make uninformed statements and I don't spout vulgarities. We are capable of having interesting, if at times heated, intellectual discussions. But in the end everyone is still friends because we spoke truth and saw truth, and did not resort to P.C. indignation. I love my friends and would die for them, all of them, in all their colors. But none of us will mask the facts. That's why college is great. I'll never meet such open-minded people again.
I was going to refute your statements, but there's no getting through to someone like you - so entrenched in your bigotry. You consider yourself an objective observer of race in society, but deep down your nothing more than a brown-shirted Nazi.
Lovely. Every time a person mentions race, even if it's fact-based and not childish supremacist bullshit, they get called a Nazi and a racist. newsflash buddy: Adolf Hitler believed in racial extermination. I believe in racial improvement. Aren't those kind of opposite? Ignorant people get the eye roll. You Politically Correct, intellectually inferior non-entity... lol. Are you white? If so, I think I just became anti-white.
Just kidding, but seriously, you brainless robots are a waste of oxygen and bandwidth.
Right, but do you think genetics could be the source of a possible headstart? Or would environmental improvement seem like a better starting point to you?
I want to know why most voted "eugenics for any race is wrong". Do you feel like we are playing God by controlling such things as racial evolution? Maybe it brings back too many memories of Nazism...? Tell me, tell me! The eugenics issue looms large in my mind. By God it fascinates me! And I want to hear opinions, aside from the usual "you racist bitch" crap.
the truth hurts some, but the truth will set you free
That was me.
not anonymous, goddamn it! Jannine! It's me, jannine! What's wrong with this machine?
I never said they are the candleholders of civilization; what are you kidding me?! read all my other posts and ballots!
I was stating the fact that they have higher average IQ's than the average American.
and I didn't pull that stat out of my ass, either. Many who are familiar with my posts will be surprised to hear me say anything positive about Jews at all. But at the end of the line I'm just realistic, and I neither like nor dislike anyone (well, maybe Val Kilmer, but that's it.) FYI I pulled the stat out of a legitimate comparison study.
No, I believe it's possible that it's propaganda; everything is possible, seeing as how our media is entirely of the Zionist persuasion. But hatred is not what I harbor, nor ignorant blind faith, just hunger for the facts.
Oh I was ambiguous... I meant I LIKE Val Kilmer. Actually I am in love with him. But don't tell my boyfriend...
I didn't say you are blind, it was a atatement about what I'M not, not what YOU ARE.
*statement
*good night, it's 7 in the morning here, the sun rose, time to hit the sack.
I've thought about that too, and here's what I came up with.
If we care anything about them, we cannot leave the Black race to continue on the path it's on. Do you deny there's a problem? If so, there's no place in this discussion for you, because you are blind. Putting that aside, something has to be done. How are we treating them like humans at all if we let the standard of living in Africa keep deteriorating as it already is? How are we treating them as humans if we let the vast majority of American Blacks keep living in slums, undereducated, crime-ridden, and suffering from such grossly low average IQ's? (Average Black IQ in America is 87. Average White is 102.) One out of five Black Americans fall under the category of mentally retarded! (Considered to be an IQ under 70.) Now I think that to let this keep spiraling downward is not only irresponsible, but completely inhumane. If we do, we are just as Nazi as the Third Reich, because we are letting them exterminate themselves. As fellow humans it is our moral duty to do what we can to help out other fellow humans. How else will "true" racial equality ever be achieved? By affirmative action? I think not. By welfare, by improving their environment? That won't eliminate the fact that inferior Blacks pump out many more children than superior blacks do. The more they breed, the more genetically inferior children they produce. And THOSE children will in turn produce MORE inferior children, and the problem keeps multiplying exponentially. And we just sit around, PRETEND IT ISN'T REALLY HAPPENING, PRETEND THERE'S NO PROBLEM AT ALL, AND LET IT KEEP HAPPENING! HOW HUMANE IS THAT?!
To treat someone like a human is to care about their condition. Either that, or watch them perish.
"There are no differences between our races but the color of our skin." That's the kind of brainwashed bullshit that's preventing us from fixing the problem. It's a load of shit, everyone knows it, but few actually admit it. I BLAME YOU AND EVERYONE LIKE YOU FOR THE LOW BLACK STANDARD OF LIVING. IT'S YOUR FAULT. If you can't admit it you certainly can't improve it. And the big wheel keeps on turning.
Just avert your eyes and pretend like it's not really happening. It's not happening. You are getting sleepy. Your eyelids are growing heavy. The blacks don't have a lower standard of living. It's all in the imagination. Everything is fine and dandy. When I clap my hands you will wake up, and there will be racial equality in America. CLAP!....ahem... CLAP!...wake up! Shit, it didn't work. I'm not susceptible to hypnosis, sorry. Better luck next time.
Science says all humans originated in Africa.
Only *some* of the scientific community believes that; it's called the "Out of Africa" theory, and the more prevalent theory right now is the theory of multi-regionalism, which states that different races of primitive humans developed independently from one another. So the Out-of-Africa theory is quickly becoming obsolete. I'm an anthropology major; I know what I'm talking about.
Of course, the media finds Out-of-Africa to be too perfectly politically correct, and they are reluctant to abandon it. That's why when you want truth, you read a book, not a newspaper.
Call me racist but I personally don't like dogs.Go and get your own stick is what I say. You threw it, you fuckin' fetch it. purrrrrrrr
That's funny, someone named themselves after me, I think. Flattering? Weird? I dunno...
It would only partly cure the problem that plague blacks. I do not think it is strictly genetic. There have to be intelligent blacks that mischannel their intelligence because of envirnoment becoming drug dealers instead of college grads that prosper. But it is interesting to think that if intelligent blacks had more children and they were socially responsible parents as well then blacks would have the ability to add instead of detract from our grand nation. Janine I believe you are right people are scared to discuss true answers and you are correct by saying the time has past for PC. PC has done nothing, except make this nation more accepting of deviant acts.
Sometimes it seems the Politically Correct whites are the biggest problem, Gagoonies.
I would never condone Whitey destruction. I have as much White Pride as you do, Gag. White Pride World Wide.
Jannine, occasionally you speak as if you are an intelligent free thinking person. With that being the case, I would think that you would understand that you can't believe everything that you read. FYI, IQ tests rate exposure to the specific subject matter, not the level of a person's intelligence. How could you not know that? It is the exposure to good education, and good life experiences that determine how people act and think.
For the record poor, whites tend to have low IQ scores. That is no indication of a lack of ability to learn, only that they haven't been exposed to the subject matter.
Donny, I don't know what IQ tests are based on "subject matter", but I know that I have taken both standard IQ tests, the WAIS and the Stanford-Binet (the only ones that are widely administrated and accepted nowadays), and they have NO subject matter in them except for the vocabulary portion. Blacks actually score higher on the vocabulary than they do on the other portions of the test. As I have already stated, the parts where they score lowest are the abstract-thinking ones, like pattern-recognition, which contain no "subject matter", only abstract shapes and such. Those are the parts that measure mental sharpness, no matter what education you have been exposed to. The so-called bias, ever perpetuated by the media, is nothing but politically correct wishful thinking. There is actually an IQ test called the Raven Progressive Matrices, which is administered to inner-city youths whom may lack proper schooling. That test contains no subject matter at ALL, not even vocabulary. It requires no education at all. Blacks actually score MORE poorlyon that test, compared to the average, than they do on the standard IQ tests. So it seems that when you remove cultural bias, you actually LOWER black scores. It seems education is actually the black kids' STRENGTH. That says something for the benefits that education has given blacks in America. Blacks consistently do BETTER at subject-matter testing than innate-skills testing. Just some food for thought. No matter what the Media wants you to believe.
That was bad usage... I put a "whom" in there that should've been "who".
And there is a very sad statistic that I saw... average IQ of whites who fall under the poverty level is the same as the average IQ of blacks who earn at the $50,000/year level.
That can be looked at two ways: either it's a product of the dreaded affirmative action, or blacks are more driven to succeed.
so you know the answer then... which of the two options do you think it is? ;-)
To the person who commented earlier, yes, I agree that there are intelligent blacks who channel their intelligence into illegal activity because of the culture they have been exposed to. What a waste of a perfectly good mind. That goes to show me, personally, that those superior people's inferior surroundings - the morons they've been exposed to and been forced to emulate, for lack of better role models - need to be improved. Eugenics reduces the moronic population, to the point where one day those intelligent blacks will be surrounded by other intelligent blacks and have better, more numerous examples to follow in his community. I am fully aware that it takes massive intellect to build a successful crime ring... but imagine the possibilities when those same people grow up around doctors and scientists! In an environment where criminal tendencies and low intelligence have been reduced, and they won't grow up under the impression that stupidity and crime are the preferable path! The criminal and the stupid bring down everyone around them. They prevent the superior ones from prospering. I see the possibilities; don't you? I envision a successful, majestic black population one day. But it's not gonna happen by itself.
Face it, eugenics works. You don't, of course, force people to get sterilized, nor do you force people to pump out babies. Rather, you give them incentives... such as money, perhaps? Everyone likes money. If a government agency can pinpoint a person with an IQ of 85 and a criminal record, they can offer the person a certain bonus to get sterilized. Gagoonies will say "Why give them our tax dollars?" Well, look at it this way: The children that person would have pumped out would likely end up costing us MORE tax dollars, in welfare money, jail expenses, public schooling which would have probably gone to waste, etc. Offering them a bonus saves US money, and THEM the headache of multiple children they are probably unable or unwilling to deal with anyway. As for the superior folk, you offer them bonuses for each child they DO have. Understand, none of these things would be requisite. The decision to cooperate with the plan would be totally up to the individual. But I have a feeling that many, if not most, would be in favor of the plan. Think about it; it's a sweet deal! Put yourself in the position of the person with the low IQ and criminality: would you choose to bear lots of kids you didn't even ask for, or would you choose a sizeable lump of money and freedom from unplanned offspring? Seems like an obvious choice to me.
This can also be applied to ANYONE with a low IQ and high criminality, of any race. It would revolutionize our society. It would be a win-win situation. I just chose to focus on blacks in this poll because the black issue looms larger in our minds in America. I am sure that blacks, especially, can appreciate the truth of that. But in reality, optional eugenics can be expanded to the WHOLE population for a vast improvement. I know, I'm a crazy revolutionary.
Anonymous, after a poor person has one or two kids, it's not likely they'll be opposed to sterilization if it comes with a nice bonus.
The sterilization doesn't have to be as soon as they hit childbearing age or anything. The timing is completely up to the individual. if they want to have a couple of kids before getting sterilized, that's up to them. Even if they have ten kids, they could still choose to do it.
You're just another closed-minded brainwashee. Leave my poll now.
These militant politically-correct zombies are the biggest thought-Nazis of all time.
I really don't see the "evil" in anything I've said. It seems completely humane to me. It's not like you're holding a gun up to anyone's head and forcing them. It's just giving them the option to do it if they want to. Of course it's evil, and why? Because it's RAAAAACIST!!!! Because it's not NAAAAATURAL! Oh, please. I've heard all the bleeding-heart-liberal bullshit before.
Rather than throwing pointless insults at me, realize that there is no EVIL or ILL WILL in my heart. This discussion was intended not to convince people of "Nazism", as you call it. I am sincerely pondering on ways to improve the crisis. If you disagree with my suggestion, and you say there are other ways to do it, why don't you share your thoughts with me here? I really hate when people bring arbitrary morality into what should be a rational discussion. What are the better ways you speak of? I am very interested in learning your opinions.
I can't understand why people can't just say "I disagree with you" and explain their opinion, instead of screaming "You evil sick racist Nazi idiot bitch" and not actually having any thoughts at all. THAT, to me, is closed-minded and ignorant. Notice how I always listen to people's opinions, when they HAVE any, and courteously answer their posts. But no! Most everyone feels the need to have a hissy fit and leave without actually having said anything. I am open-minded, progressive, and willing to exchange ideas; most others are judgemental and don't care to listen or offer any suggestions. This is why I detest mindless zombies. they are not willing to stop and think for two seconds; they just spout out whatever they've been programmed to say.
The Out-of-Africa theory has lost popularity among anthropologists, and the more widely accepted theory now is Multi-regionalism, which states that different groups of humans evolved separately from each other in different parts of the world, instead of spreading in a massive emigration from Africa as was previously widely believed. Even if the Out-of-Africa were to come back into vogue and prove to be correct, all that would mean would be that we are all descended from common ancestors, but you cannot deny that the races have since evolved along separate paths. We are not all exactly the same. Different races have different strengths and weaknesses. So whom we evolved from is not the point. I love my fellow man because we are all human. That does not remove the issues at hand. But for reference, Out-of-Africa is no longer the popular theory in the anthropological community. It is still *extremely* popular in the media, though, because it is just too perfectly politically correct to let go of.
I see Anonymous didn't actually have any thoughts of his/her own, and was just pointlessly foaming at the mouth after all, because he/she still hasn't contributed anything to this poll but insults. Oh, well. Another brainless PC trooper. Just as I expected.
Like I said, even if Out-of-Africa is correct, that does not mask the fact that the races are not the same. They are different in many ways. And first off, the black crisis that exists in the United States is more critical than whatever is going on with the whites. Even if we are cousins, that is still the case. We are not the same. White eugenics is not *critical* right now. Second off, yes, eugenics for ALL races is useful. So if you like, we can include whites, hispanics, Asians, Indians, Arabs, and whomever else you can think of, in this plan. It just all seems like an opportunity too good to miss, perhaps one that will bring us up to par with the European nations. There, does that answer your question?
By the way, need I reiterate that I believe all races are equal in human value? If I hadn't made it clear before, there it is.
National Geographic is a product of the media and certainly not an accurate anthropological journal. If you want truth, you should read books or actual scientific journals made for scientists by scientists. Like I said, the media just loves the out-of-africa theory. You will never hear it bashed unless it's *completely* disproven, which I doubt will happen soon.
Dude, I'm an anthropology major; I don't read magazines or National Geographic. I learn from books, journals and professors. Seriously, you don't have to take my word for it. My argument still stands no matter which of the theories proves to be true.
I can be a black person's first cousin, for all I care. I can be black myself, for all I care. That does not interfere with my idea.
That's true! scroll up and you will see the answer to your question already posted. yes, eugenics is beneficial to all.
Bottom line: Criminals and dumb folks of all races breed like rabbits, period. That's no good for ANY society.
If you will scroll up you will see that it IS their choice and remains so no matter what. I would not take away their choice to do whatever they wanted. That is not humane treatment. I only proposed a model of improvement that offers an INCENTIVE to curtail overbreeding. The decision always rests in the hands of each individual.
My model went something like this: For every IQ point under, let's say, 100 (the rough national average), a person would be offered a certain amount of money. For example (and this is just a random figure) a thousand dollars per IQ point under 100. So a person with an IQ of 70 would receive $30,000, while a person with IQ 95 would only receive $5000. This stems from the notion that the dumber the person, the more critical it is to minimize his breeding, therefore a larger incentive is called for. Surely very few people of IQ 95 or even 90 would get sterilized for such a small sum; that is fine because it is not as critical to discourage him from procreating. BUT, here's the catch: there has to be a felony on his record in order for him to be eligible, unless he is under IQ 90. Sound right so far?
Mister Anonymous, I think you are too dense to get the point that no one's telling anyone they can't have children. It's an optional thing.
The twin studies done on twin offspring of felons, separated at birth, have proven that a child raised away from his felonious mother is more likely to commit a crime than other people of similar socioeconomic status to the one he was raised in. The twin raised WITH the biological felonious mother was even MORE likely to commit crime. Why do we want criminals raising more criminals?
Well, we'll be giving them welfare and jail-support handouts for life, and waste more tax dollars doing so, anyway. This is actually a savings. The thousand-dollar figure was only a number I pulled out of my ass, though. It can be set to any fair amount. I'm not a budget analyst, so I couldn't say HOW much.
How do you mean? My ring doesn't hurt at all! :-)
That smiley didn't come out right. here we go: :-) :-) :-)
I pull things out of my ass, eh. Well, you haven't pulled anything out at all during this whole conversation; you've just been naysaying and insulting and haven't made any valid points yourself, which makes me wonder what, exactly, is between your ears... or why I'm even giving you the time of day, since people without a brain cell have nowhere to store information. Maybe your ass? That's where I keep my budget analysis knowledge, after all. Good night & sweet dreams! :-)
Well since I don't have the correlations stored in my ass, I suggest you search-engine the topic. But that there IS a correlation, I definitely remember that much. *Sorry* I don't have ALL the answers. There is a rather strong correlation between maternal criminality and that of her spawns. That much I remember. Just Google it.
Interesting. One thing that came to me today... the argument about whether African-American culture is a result of criminality and low average intelligence, or whether criminality and low intelligence are products of the culture. I know someone's gonna lash out at me now, but I'm used to it, and if you stop to think about it you will realize this is a valid question. Likely it's a self-perpetuating cycle that works both ways... what do you think?... By the way, I'm looking for the twin studies on criminality, and I'll copy and paste them as soon as I find them.
By "culture" I meant environment of course.
Here we go. And I quote Crime Times dot org:
In a unique study design, Edwin J.C.G. van den Oord et al. co-mpared 221 pairs of biologically unrelated siblings in adoptive families to 111 pairs of biologically related siblings who had been kept together when adopted. "Adopted children are usually co-mpared with controls who are raised by their biological parents," the researchers say, "while in our study both groups raised by adoptive parents." A group of children with no siblings was included as a control.
The researchers report that among their subjects, "genetic influences accounted for 70% of the variance of aggressive behavior," while a heritability of 39% was found for delinquency. "For attention problems," they say, "genetic influences accounted for 47% of the variance, whereas shared environmental influences were very small."
I had to add the dashes because this site thinks I'm trying to promote a website when the letters c-o-m are posted together. That's stupid...
OOp, here's another article you might find interesting from the same website:
Thrill-seekers as a group are more crime-prone than their risk-avoiding peers (See related article). Two new research studies indicate that people who seek out excitement -- whether legal or illegal -- are influenced, at least in part, by their genetic makeup.
Richard Ebstein and colleagues, at Herzog Memorial Hospital in Jerusalem, studied 124 unrelated Israelis. The researchers administered a test, devised by C. Robert Cloninger, which evaluated four personality traits: novelty seeking, harm avoidance, reward dependence, and persistence. They found that many subjects with high novelty-seeking scores had a slightly longer form of the D4 dopamine receptor (D4DR) gene than deliberate, reflective subjects. According to Ebstein, "this work provides the first replicated association between a specific genetic locus involved in neurotransmission and a normal personality trait."
And that's only the *first* crime-related gene discovered. As with all human traits, criminality must be determined by more than one gene, so I'm sure more are still to be found.
You know something Jannine? Your search for so-call Anthropologist (WHITE Anthropologist no doubt) to bolster your positon regarding who is more genetically prone to criminality is inaccurate and shameful at best and their inaccuracy or deliberate misrepresentation of the facts and your racial disdain for people of color will not go unpunished...Genetics have nothing to do with ones propensity to criminality...Just like many racist sucha as yourself? Environment is always conveniently left out of the equation when evaluating groups' behavior patterns...I am sure your racist pancake butt is well familiar with one of the greatest WHITE lie ever written/told regarding intelligence and class structure in american life entitled: "The Bell Curve" by two racist Jews (like YOU), Richard J. Herrnstein and Charles Murray. The idea both these individuals (like YOU) would attempt to use genetics as the primary vehicle in which to measure a groups intellectual level and their propensity to criminality is a typical ploy by race baiters/haters. Just like yourself, I to can find a host of so call experts to counter act your experts...It is insulting to God that you and others who think like you, and say the things you say regarding a group of God's child...Mankind started in AFRICA...If you can not deal with that? Stuff..."Out of Africa has lost popularity among the Anthropologist." I bet it has not lost it's popularity with God, how about that? Explain when it is you can say in one breathe how much you love your fellow man and your YOUNG, WET behind the ears, have not experience life enough to offer an opinion regarding this subject matter, and can say in the same breathe all this garbage you have been spewing endlessly...Just face it, you are a descendant of Africa and the only thing I have left to say to that fact is simply this..."YOU GO GIRL!...Infact? Just GO!"
Barbara, I can understand why you are angry at me. Regardless, your claim that criminal propensities are not genetic show a blatant disregard for the facts. I have quoted actual studies. You deny them. All I see on this site is a lot of fear of truth, and a lot of anger and denial, when people are presented with reality. Your refusal to see what stares you in the face makes me sad for you, as you are a highly intelligent black woman and, I'm sure, are fully aware of the problems that plague the black community. I hold you in high regard and it pains me to see how such intelligent people on this website are afraid to think.
By the way, The Bell Curve was not in any way, shape, or form a falsified study... the politically correct media just WISHES it was.
There will always be some bad seeds. You can't have a perfect society. There's nothing you can do about the jackasses that are occasionally born. But eliminating the bad gene(s) would substantially reduce the jackasses. However, there'll always be *some*.
Jannine, I'm afraid the back-and-forth got a bit old, so I didn't read all the comments. But, out of curiosity, why restrict such a strategy only to African-Americans? And do you think this is a reasonable strategy that could be implemented within the African-American community, or one that would need to be implemented by force from some outside group?
To answer your first question, my POLL was focused on Afro-Americans, but the MOVEMENT doesn't have to be. I'd like to reduce crime and low intelligence in society as a whole, ideally. And to your second question: it would be beautiful if the blacks could take this matter into their own hands, and improve themselves through a eugenics effort WITHIN their communities. That would be the most beautiful thing of all. Then maybe I wouldn't get called a Nazi so often, lol. Seriously, why would I want to play babysitter to a community with its own capable individuals? I only produce and promote the ideas; I'm no one to actually IMPLEMENT them. yeah, you're so right! If they could be presented with the idea, wouldn't it be a wonder if they stepped up to it and fixed the issue for themselves? I hadn't even given that any thought...
Jannine: As geniusx stated, "You have to take diet, environment, support and upbringing, as well as education into consideration. Only if things are equal can anyone legitimately hypothesize about inferiority. The factors I mentioned taint the evidence, therefore no conclusion can rightfully be made."
You can't pigeonhole an entire race for eugenics, even if you believe that the average white IQ is 102 and the average black IQ is 87...which it isn't: Nationally representative IQ tests show a black/white IQ gap of 7 to 10 points. Academic achievement tests, show an average gap of about 10 points. In general, these tests show the gap is being reduced about two and a half points a decade. Among scientists, it has been common knowledge that both black and white IQs have been rising over the decades, with black IQs converging upwards towards whites. This fits nicely with America's rising standard of living, which has been rising somewhat faster for blacks, thanks to the Civil Rights movement and other anti-poverty measures. Hence, it's more environmental than genetic.
The history of eugenics is not a proud one. It is largely remembered for its shoddy science, the blatant race and class biases of many of its leading advocates, and its cruel program of segregation and, later, sterilization of hundreds of thousands of vulnerable people who were judged to have substandard genes. Though the eugenicists correctly noted the social dislocations of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, their biological explanation--the "degeneracy" thesis--was not correct, either in its Lamarckian or its Darwinian versions. The widespread belief among eugenicists left and right in the heritability of talents, vices, and other traits of character, has not fared much better. Though interest in the genetic basis of behavioral traits and dispositions continues unabated in today's studies of twins (Bouchard 199x) and in sociobiology (Wilson 198x, Kitcher 199x), which are hardly free from controversy, even those most strongly convinced of a genetic basis for particular behavioral dispositions find little merit in the eugenicists' research methods or specific conclusions. Nor were the eugenicists prescriptions for genetic improvement likely to have much effect. They had no way to identify carriers of recessive genes, and so did not know whom to discourage from reproducing; thus their proposed programs could not possibly deliver the benefits they promised. Some eugenicist scientists came to appreciate the relative futility of their proposed measures in bringing about large-scale changes in the distribution of what they imagined were the genes underlying such traits as intelligence and self-control (Paul and Spencer 1995). In their more careful moments, they conceded that the effect of eugenic measures would be very small, though they considered the interventions justified even by these results.
Ultimately, eugenics is wrong scientifically because any country cannot prevent the existence and birth of disabled owing to recessive genes and natural mutation, and wrong ethically because disabled and non-disabled have equal ethical/legal status and enjoy equal ethical/legal rights. People within a nation and between different nations are equal, and cannot be divided into "superior" and "inferior". Marriage or reproduction is a choice made by an individual person, others and the state have no right to intervene.
Very well said Cheesecake, environmental factors are hardly ever considered in these racist IQ evaluations and identification of whom is more prone to criminality...Its another ploy...AGAIN I might stress...To keep the WHTIE lie alive rather than HOPE...If I were to buy into the LIE regarding who is more prone to criminality? I would most certainly would have to begin with Europeans historically and those who now live in AMERICA...I am an Italian American (Not the Black woman that Jannine assumed that I am, my sweetheart is the Beautiful, intelligent, educated, not prone to criminality, thoughtful, God loving Black woman) It was the Europeans that came to North America and used the tools of murder, rape, thievery, lies and brutality to STEAL and take control of North America by almost eliminating an entire race of people, it was also the Europeans that brought Africans over to North America using again the tools used again the Natives of North America...and not the mention all the other countries that America has conquered using the same tools of brutality...America supplied Iraq with weapons to defeat Russia and for 10 years Iraq beat Russia to submission...After which the first Bush Administration suggested that Sadam agreed to allow the U.S. to have a number of the oil wells in Iraqi as payment of weapons supplied by the U.S., when Sadam declined to turn over oil wells...He immediately became the bad guy...You see, you are young and uneducated on the facts of race...What an individual is exposed to and the amount of opportunities that are/are not affored to her/him and environment plays a VERY important role in their progress or their lack of progress...As for your comment Jr. regarding Blacks and basketball? I know of many Blacks who are highly educated and mapped out their future quite well and is doing very well...You don't ever hear about them...Because if YOU did? You would not have made such a ridiculous analogy...and yes, you may not wanted to stereotyped anyone, however? Too late...Many Blacks have made great strides and continue to do so...However, again, thats never reported and its by design...therefore, If I were to think like Jannine regarding who is prone to criminality...I would have to go with WHITES are more prone to criminality...Your President as lead over 500 American soldiers to their deaths on a WHITE lie (WMD), that makes him a murderer...Being a WHITE male myself (an Italian WHITE male, I believe thats different than being an American WHITE male, well at least I hope it does anyway)there are those who may view me in a negative manner because of the dirty deeds of others and what they may say to misrepresent the truth (Like Jannine who knows absolutely nothing about the issue of race) and I don't blame them one bit...enclosing I would like to say to Jannine...This will be the last commentary I will address you with, you continue to live happily or unhappily ever after in your single wide, I'll continue to live happily ever after at my Villa in Italy...CIAO!
Ciao, Donny. He uses his wife's user name... that's confusing.
Anyways, I'd HARDLY say I'm undereducated on the issues of race. Of course, anyone whose views I disagree with is likely to consider me undereducated, but I'm not. You may have a practitioner's point of view, knowing what you know about race from experience and common knowledge... I'm coming from a theorist's perspective - possibly the most underrated P.O.V. of all, since it's theorists who develop all the new ideas. Answering Cheesecake's post: Now come on, dude, both you and I know who controls science. The few unbiased researchers go out on the field, do their studies, and come back with the facts; their supervisors and the establishment censor those findings because the facts don't agree with what is "proper" to believe at the time; perfectly obvious facts are laballed "inconclusive" and "functionally impractical" to make everyone feel better about the status quo. Yep, we all know it, eugenics is a controversial dogfight, and as such it is doomed to die as another revolutionary idea gone down the drain. One that could've fixed a lot of things, but never got the chance to. Eugenics is dead, my friends, but believe you me: it lives on in my heart. Black IQ's are growing to converge with white IQ's, you say? If this is so, then this whole discussion won't even be an issue in several decades, and my heart can rest happy knowing that the problem will get solved one way or another. As for the crime? Well, we'll take the detestable old wait-and-see approach. It's been good talking to you all (even though there's a few less intact capillaries around my temples by now, and a small hemmorhage in my right eye) :-D Peace out, and may this hopeless thread rest in peace.
Janine has been taking a lot of stick all the way through this discussion; being a racist (a nazi, goosestepping, yawn. Grow up). This is obviously because she is white and is trying to solve 'the black issue in America'. If this discussion was purely about Eugenics this wouldn't have been such a problem. I follow the arguments and accept that there is a problem in the US with black communities but why would you ever solve this problem and THEN move on to apply this to other races.
As far as I can see the main opposition to Eugenics is the fact that somebody has to control it; regardless of the fact that it might be voluntary. There may be the aire of a facist state even though it may not truly exist. We all know they dont work. I also follow cheesecakes recessive gene argument. One could never completely remove the chance of a little damian-baby being born, but to be fair Janine already acknowledged that.
What is the goal of Eugenics? To get everybody so clever they would rather study
anthropology than farm and clean etc.
Those IQ tests, how long till people start doing deliberately worse to get more money for their nut loss. Will there be some way of CONTROLING this?
What about rendering everyone infertile at birth then having to prove your potential parental capabilities ;>.
Back to the racism issue there is one thing that perplexes me a little with Janine. She is quick to defend herself against PC comments (i agree there) but she say's nothing against gagoonies when he spouts off with some ill advised crap ("send the Afrikans back to Afrika", What makes him any less of an immigrant?). By saying nothing to these comments you are obviously far away from condoning them, but still.
Barbara-baby-cakes, one thing I have noticed in your comments (here and elsewhere). You always bring god up as though this is going to boost your argument. Although I respect your right to believe (and without wanting to turn this into another religious argument) I think it a little shallow to assume this matters to us. Not everyone believes. I find your arguments are (comparitively) well informed and I'm sure you are capable of arguing a case without that.
I appologize for any spelling/grammar errors. I'm an Engineer (autistic and dyslexic!)
Jannine: If you like, you can discount all of my cited studies and for the sake of fairness discount yours as well. And for the sake of arguement let's dismiss any moral or ethical implications. It doesn't change the bottom line fact that the human genome remains unmapped and therefore any attempt at eugenics would be nothing more than guesswork.
Any racist is already intellectually inferior. It actually degrades your worth as a human being. It is actually laughable because they people have know idea what they are doing to themselves mentally & spiritually. They should fear the day they die.
What? what does this have to do with anything at all. Wrong poll.
Jannine you are truly an amoral person and are in need of some serious counseling. As a young woman living in a free society I can't believe you are entertaining this idea. I have read through this entire post and even though you don't deserve it, I'm going to address this because I think it is important to squash the topic.
First of all your paltry test of felon + low IQ is so simplistic it is laughable. We are supposed to define a genetically defective person based on the flawed American justice system? Felons are actually the least of our problems when it comes to crime. The ones we really have to worry about don't get caught. As far as doing damage to society embezzlers, traitors who sell national secrets, and all manor of social criminals' who are smart enough not to get caught are the real threat you forgot to address. We would have to come up with a matrix of undesirable traits and factor out thousands of social circumstances even to begin deciding who would be logical to sterilize. Since it would have to be regulated by all of society not Nazi Queen Jannine - eugenics ends up becoming government control over breeding. Government offices are constantly abused, and this is a prime example of something that can be abused to no end. For instance Eugenics proponents and Nazis like yourself also promoted anti-mixing laws such as Virginias Racial Integrity Act of 1924. Calvin Coolidge was once quoted as saying, Biological laws tell us that certain divergent people will not mix or blend. Hes lucky he never had to play golf with Tiger Woods.
Medically speaking sterilizations are not as easy as you seem to think. Having a vasectomy or getting your tubes tied are not 100% effective and they are operations with infection always being a possibility. Chemical castration hurts your body in countless ways and is difficult to make permanent without killing the person. You'd have all kinds of people with medical problems arising out of such a program with all the attendant aftercare, revision surgeries, and insurance to drive the costs of the program through the roof. Furthermore, the lawsuits that could arise out of your Dr. Mengele-esq program from people who say they were misinformed or the procedure was botched would break the financial back of the program very quickly. In order to do it right you'd have to take away all the person's rights so they cannot sue under law. Since these rights are enshrined in the Constitution you might as well tear that up which would lead us to some sort of totalitarian regime someday. Sluts like you wouldn't stand a chance under such a system. The first thing to go would be sexual freedoms so there goes your favorite pastime.
In terms of genetics do you know ANYTHING about how we are all connected? That black boy you want to sterilize may hold the gene we need to cure a future disease that would otherwise kill 30% of the population. Its likely you would be in that 30% since you obviously have very different genes. There is no logical or scientific way of determining those future needs 100% - being that they are in the future. It is reasonable to assume, however, that since black people are more fit and athletic than white people they have some genes that are better able to handle disease. Disturbing the gene pool is a dangerous undertaking and you are probably one of the LEAST qualified to expound on such a subject.
Have you considered that many countries would have a significant problem with this and make trade and travel difficult for Americans? Unlike you the rest of the world doesnt want a 4th Reich or White Power World Wide.
Apparently you don't know but eugenics was already tried right here in this country from the beginning of the 20th Century right into the 1970s. In fact it was the basis of the Nazi program of sterilization so I guess you are really a Nazi whether you admit it or not. About 66,000 thousand Americans lost the ability to have children and did it stop crime or mental disorder or promiscuity or anything at all? No. You need to read your history little girl, because you obviously don't know that the people most in need of sterilization according to the thought at the time were sluttish girls like you who often ended up bearing illegitimate children nobody wanted. The Supreme Court upheld a case (Buck vs. Bell) of forced sterilization of a 17 year old girl who had a bastard kid only later to find out the girl's child was not a result of her promiscuity but actually of rape. The law is still on the books to this day, which should show you how screwed up our justice system is.
I have only scratched the surface of the havoc something like this could wreak in our society. What you are attempting to do is out of your league - or that of any human. A eugenics program would create a social tendency to judge people - and their families - by a popularized and simplistic method. It would create irreparable harm to people's lives and destroy the trust in democracy required for our society to continue. It did more harm than good the first time we tried it and there is no reason to think we have evolved beyond our own ability to royally fuck things up.
You cast a lot of stones living in your glass Nazi whorehouse. As opposed to making love for the purpose of enhancing a natural bond between two people from your own admission you like to be smacked around while being fucked and believe in "White Power World Wide". What gives you the right to make a child you'll probably just neglect or put on pharmaceuticals anyway? Why not sterilize Nazis? Why not sterilize sluts? What makes you so sure you're not defective in one or many ways?? While I would fight and die for your right to ponder these questions you have to realize you have no right and are not competent to judge people. You are only human and God is God. You need to stop thinking you are capable of replacing Him.
Furthermore your ignorance is dangerous to freedom. Don't you realize you are advocating taking away your own liberty? Do you think you should be a slave to the ruling class? Why don't you go live in China where your ideal would be more acceptable? Oh that's right, they don't like trashy white girls coming over there and screwing up their gene pool and spreading disease. You are the worst kind of citizen: a person who destroys her own society by spreading half-truths and ignorance. You should reconsider going to school because a little bit of knowledge in your hands goes a long way towards jumping to perilously irrelevant conclusions and evoking knee-jerk reactions in weak-minded individuals. You are so stupid that all the knowledge in the world isn't going to make up for it. Maybe your brain is defective? Maybe you were just born that way? Whatever the case you are definitely an example of why the education system needs some serious fixing. Read 1984. Read A Brave New World. Read the Bible because you of all people need SOMETHING to restore your moral compass. You can say we don't need God except you can't seem to find your way without Him.
That last part should have read:
Maybe YOUR brain is defective? Maybe YOU were just born that way?
This was supposed to be a little sarcasm but re-reading it, it just sounded like something you could have written. I don't think you were born bad, but I do think your logic circuits are poor and you are the classic pseudo-intellectual.
I also think that your attempt to erase God from an argument is flawed. You want to have an open discussion so long as people don't bring up the correct answer to your question? You may think you have some way of eliminating God and morality from your arguments and still have them make sense but you haven't been able to achieve this thus far and you won't in the future either. You will continue to chase your tail until you recognize the truth: Everything comes back to God because God IS is.
I'll write that again so that you don't think it was a type-o: God is is.
read the comment again busy_beard, you fucking idiot.
Jannine, your writings on this topic are voluminous. It's obvious that implementing Eugenics is not just a passing thought with you. Who are you, Dr. Mengele's granddaughter? You're calculatingly sick and twisted, and you should be locked up before you hurt someone. But I think it's ironic that you claim to want to make the world a better place, but it is you and those who think like you who are the most dangerous of all. I wish the worst for you and I hope you have a miserable life. Have a terrible day.
As a fucking idiot i understand what you said baggles,but i think your comment was misplaced.
It doesn't relate to anything. If you are implying that Janine is a racist, well that would be a good chain of thought to explore. She doesn't see herself as racist so your comment will have no effect whatsoever.
Look at cheesecakes comment above, I don't want to kiss his ass too much but at least it leads onto something other than petty insults.
(yawn) Thread's dead, guys. Move on.
"What the fool cannot learn, he laughs at, thinking that by his laughter he shows superiority instead of a latent idiocy" - Marie Corelli
You could be a comedian cheesecake!
Yeah, Cheesecake - what you said.
Well, Webjedi, I have to applaud your refutal of my entire eugenics theory. That's what I wanted to hear when I made this poll: logical thinking backed up by facts. However, don't you think you could've done without the moral judgements and petty insults? that kinda killed your whole commentary. Nevertheless, I find that when I skip over the "Nazi/ slut/ idiot/ whore/ lunatic/ little girl/ demon" accusations, you actually make sense. I can't argue with much you said. Ok, eugenics won't work. But as I've already stated, this is a dead thread, and I'd like to move on to something more productive than dwelling on a theory which has already been effectively refuted. The fat lady has sung. Goodbye, and thank you all for playing.
Nope. Wrong. Because that's an easy way of *trying* to win an argument without logic. But last I checked, this poll wasn't about my morality - it was about EUGENICS. wanna vote on my morals? Go on one of my polls about myself. Other than that, KEEP THE ARBITRARY MORALITY OFF THIS POLL. Thread's dead anyways; did I not make that clear enough? Move on, people; this isn't the be-all and end-all of human existence.
Don't let Gagoonies hear you say that ;-)
I'm coarse but I tell it like it is. So if the shoe fits...
I did not chastise you JR. and the name is befitted someone who obviously did not read my commentary fully and completely, you obviously would prefer believing that Black ball players practice the game differently from white ball players and that is why the NBA is comprised mostly of Black players...However, the last draft would suggest your point is not any longer accurate...There were most European players taken in the last draft than every before since the league was integrated...Personally? I don't care who is playing the game as long as my team WINS...Thats is the bottom line partner...My point is simply this...Your statement regarding that Whites and Asians are highly efficient in business and education has flaws...First of all...It is about opportunity to demonstrate to all how efficient one is regarding business and education...You missed the boat on that one...OPPORTUNITY is the key...You can continue to bring up the basketball ankle as you see fit...However, it does bespeak the accuracy of the numbers of Blacks that have and continue to excel in both areas of Business and Education...Its all in the availablility of an opportunity...I don't' have to be Black to know what you think I could not possibly know...Both of my Sons are BLACK...You have no idea what frame of reference I am coming from...none...So, before you ASSume anything about me because of my race? Think about how many WHITES ASSume things about YOU because of your race...This back and forth is none productive to say the least...I am not saying that I have a lock on the issue of race...I am however saying that...Credit should be given where credit is due...And for those who have and continue to make great progress in the field of academics, business, and other important areas of importance to mankind is shared by many races of people...To include people of color...The stereotype stinks...You can continue to smell it, I refuse to do so..., enjoy...
Why is it that Yours sons are black barbara? Are they not biologically your sons or does black+italian=black?
JR? You are either some WHITE hater impersonating person of color or you are one of the worst example of self-hatred I have had the displeasure of corresponding with...As far as my wife goes? You don't know anything about my wife just as you know nothing about life and the issue you are attempting (and a poor attempt I might add)to make sense of...You haven't a clue about nothing regarding me and my wife and you will always be a backwards thinker of people regardless of their ethnicity...You are lost and I nor anyone else really has the required time to educate your simple mind...Call me and any member of my family names if it will get you through your self-hatred day...Because at the end of the day? I and my family will still be ahead of your obvious backwards life and way of thinking...Later Loser...
Don't listen to him, jr. Barbara_Baby_Cakes is a dweeb.
Jr.? After 20 years has past? You come talk to me then, maybe your will be better educated on life as a whole...You haven't a clue, none...Now you are bringing hip hop into the equation...You will never be the achiever my sons are until you learn self respect and respect for others...You know nothing of my family just you don't about life...You whine, complain and spew misinformation and thinking that you are a Black male you know everything there is to know about the Black race as a whole...Guess what? You as I stated previously...You haven't a clue and before you disrespect someone you don't know and is not worthy of knowing? Think before you engage that sore underneath your nose...People of color are individuals just like members of other races...Some are Republicans, some are Democrats, some like grapes, other don't, so on and so forth...This notion of my people, us, them, ours, theirs...It dumb and none productive...We all are individuals period...Whether you like it or not...Opportunity is still the answer, you can possess all the education, skills, talents, knowledge and with an opportunity to put it to good use holds no value...You are probably young and think you know all there is to know about what it is you are attempting to convey to me...However, I have lived a life that you have yet to scatch the surface of...Think what you will, say what you think...What thing is certain, life can show you better than I can tell you...go get yourself a chunk of life and experience it before engaging your mouth...
Maybe you breezed past, maybe you ignored. Please answer, this is something that interests me.
Why is it that Yours sons are black barbara-baby-cakes? Are they not biologically your sons or does black+italian=black?
Maybe I should find a way of phrasing this in a poll.
I don't think scientists can truly predict what genetic brand will be more superior in the long run, because viruses and diseases may arise that may affect the "superior" genotype but don't affect someone who is considered less superior. When it all comes down to it, survival is what matters.
JR is being rational and looking at the black race's reality. barbara-baby-cakes thinks blacks are perfect and great because of ONE SPECIAL CASE. just because SOME blacks make it doesn't mean MOST or ENOUGH of them do. barbara-baby-cakes is a wishful thinker who swears to god there's no problem. ya know what? JR is a smart black man without oatmeal in his brains, unlike barbara-baby-cakes who doesnt want to see truth. Barbara-Babycakes is self-righteous and deluded and frankly im sick of his political propaganda about blacks being all great and all. face it, theres a problem and you just dont wanna admit it. of course it takes a leap of faith to marry a black woman, and you have to go around talking lovey dovey crap if youre gonna be an interracial couple. just cos your wife's smart and successful doesnt make it so for the whole black community. to say otherwise you are just proving to myself, to JR, to janine, and to everyone who posted here just how brainwashed and blindfolded you truely are. furthermore i think eugenics could work if there wasn't so many things standing in the way, like webjedi said, and its a bloody shame. my boyfriend is balck but we are certainly not looking at the black race through rose coloured glasses. to top it off i think barbara and donny like to hurl insults because they never make any sense, i mean if you REALLY look closely at their posts you find that they never say anything even REMOTELY relevant and they rely on big words and verbosity to make it sound like their saying something of great importance, but really its all the same argument, we've all heard it before and it still makes no sense. and lastly i see that you have turned janine against the whole black race, and to tell you the truth i really dont blame her, you brought it on yourself by your own ignorance and you will do it again with many many whites to come. if i was exposed to your nonsense all day i would start thinking less of blacks too, except i know there not all like that, there are smart sane blacks like JR and my boyfriend who realise there's something missing from the equation. Instead of acting like there on ecstasy and the world is good and fine, thanks. if every black was like JR and my boyfriend we would not see a problem with blacks. fortunetly here there are smarter blacks than over in the US and i agree that some change has to be made and yes, i agree, your kind is just holding everyone back. shame on you, take off those rose-coloured glasses now, reality will be there looking straight at you and you will finally be able to make a difference and not create more black-haters in the world. there's enough of them already.
It's 5:30am nyquil, go to bed. ;)
This is to nyquiljunkie, I never stated that everything in the black community was all well...my point is that, to imply that Blacks best excel at basketball because they practice more than Whites and Asians and Whites and Asians excels or do well than Blacks in business and academics is ridiculous, insulting and quite frankly? Not rational...If as a White male I had said some of things Jr. had, I would be considered a racist...Of course there are many ills in the Black community, I am not blind to that fact...I was not the one (JR. was the only one) who evoked nothing but negative stereotypes regarding Black-Americans and I meerely pointed out the positive attributes and the MANY accomplishments of Black-Americans...So I take it, you and Jr. know very few successful Black-Americans from both of your commentaries...I on the other hand know of MANY...And the idea you would imply that I turned pancake Jannine against the Black community is a joke in itself and I believe that you are some Jannine trash follower and not a person of color...You told on yourself when you took up for that tramp...No respecting person of color would take up for the likes of that chicken...Later Loser...
FIRST OFF i am not a person of color, or i am, my color is beige, and well, "LOSER", since you know SO MANY successful black ppl then your view must be rather limited because there are FAR more unsuccessful blacks than successful ones... so that goes to prove my argument that you are living in a dream... WAKE UP!
YOU made her so. she was not like that before you came along hawking your ignorant creed for a nickel
fucking americans
so get some thoughts that are worth a pound and WAKE UP! before the bogeyman crawls out from under your bed and eats your soul
I must apologize to all black people. I have made incorrect judgements about an entire race because of an ignorant man crusading for stupidity, passing out blindfolds to everyone he meets... it's not blacks. It's just you, Barbara_Baby_Cakes, and your lovely wife. I'm sorry, blacks; just because the village idiots among you speak louder than the rest does not make you all idiots. IMO, you should all take it upon yourselves to stone these jerkoffs to death so they can stop giving you a bad name. Or at least cut off their tongues and fingers. Blacks are put on Earth by God to be our equals, and equals they shall be. Politically-correct whites and blind idiots are put on Earth by Satan, King of Lies - and they shall be eradicated when the time is right. So long, suckers.
Right then... will somebody PLEASE answer me,
"Why is it that Your sons are black barbara-baby-cakes? Are they not biologically your sons or does black+italian=black?".
I'm going to keep asking this and its going to get really irritating. Are you afraid of the question? All i want is an answer.
g
A mixed child should be called "mixed". A half-black half-white child should be called "mulatto". Black genes do not eradicate all others. that is very un-PC, and coming from me, it must be, because I don't even believe in PC. To be able to claim both Black and White Pride is a double-blessing.
I have seen the light, folks! I will now stop lumping people and instead will focus on singling out the village idiot, the blinded ignoramus, to suffer my wrath! Beware, tree-huggers, for the Sanity Armada is coming to a town near you, and NONE SHALL BE SPARED! AAAARGH!!!
But just for the record, everything I have stated in this particular poll is FACT, except where otherwise noted.
JR, I always did like you. (Except when you said whites smell bad. That's as inaccurate as saying blacks smell bad; you know we smell different to each other. But that's not the point.) The world needs a little more of your sanity.
Jannine, just because you can't come up with a defense to webjedi's argument doesn't mean that you should declare the link dead. Others may come along who can.
Webjedi, you are right in tearing apart jannine's laughable plan for our society. However, you did not mention Margaret Sanger, the founder of Planned Parenthood. She very much believed in Eugenics. Who knows how much our society has benefited economically and socially from this concept. I agree that a person of any race can be intelligent given that they have opportunity and determination. However, with less children born to poor people, they have less strain to make ends meat. This means less poverty.
I believe that any action taken should focus on the poor and the young. I would have no problem if the government sent every girl aged 13 to 18 free birth control pills. Any girl who is pregnant before the age of 18 will likely go through hell raising the child.
Eugenics is not necessarilly evil. It is just the science concerning the improvement of a breed or species. I see no reason why people are shouting about racism.
I did not insult anyone, i do not think it is necessary to insult my character, so please try to refrain. However, if you have any reason to disagree with my ideas, feel free to encircle them.
Emerson, I only declared it dead because I felt that my theory had been properly disproven. I felt the debate was won and there was no point in continuing to debate an issue which has already taken so much out of me. But you're right, if people want to keep commenting on the issue, they have the right to do so. And the big wheel keeps on turning. Maybe this poll will at least have provoked some thought in those of us who can think.
I laugh at your remark about not wishing to be attacked, because yes, it seems that everyone who enters this poll must fear an attack on their character from some dimwit. When did this poll become about insults? From the first reply it received.
I don't fear criticism, but i think i wasted enough time with it when i read this thread.
Nope. The poll isn't racist. Sorry to inform you, nice try, thanks for playing. No consolation prize for you.
Jannine? Get back on that soup can and go back to Cuban, you Tramp...And Jr.? You go with that Tramp...
Go back to "Cuban", eh? Seriously, they should post a minimum IQ requirement on this site to weed out the likes of you... LMAO
Poor Baby_Cakes. Poor little village idiot.
Now, I'm not gonna make any assumptions about all Italians based on this pathetic specimen, because I promised I wouldn't lump people anymore... but gosh, it kinda makes you wonder if all Guineas are that stupid, or if he got dropped on his head as an infant...
You aren't going to make any assumptions about a group? You nasty lying piece of trash...You do that regarding people of color...You are most certainly the missing LINK...good bye, TRAMP...
Nope, the only assumption I make is the obvious one: that you are a mental defective. Goodbye, you worthless Guinea.
How could I ever form assumptions about Blacks based on the words of this pitiable child? Nothing he says is even worth listening to... sad, sad, sad.
The thread is definately dead now.
I still never got an answer from the italian... sniff.
Emerson, people are shouting about racism... #1 because Janine singled out Blacks in her question and #2 because in the realm of eugenics, Adolf Hitler remains their most successful disciple. As you know, he killed 9.7 million people in pursuit of his "master race". In a quote from Mein Kampf, Hitler speaks of his views on educating a "Negro": "it is a criminal absurdity to train a born half-ape until one
believes a lawyer has been made of him, while millions of members of the highest culture race have to
remain in entirely unworthy positions; that it is a sin against the will of the eternal Creator to let hundreds
and hundreds of thousands of His most talented beings degenerate in the proletarian swamp of today,
while Hottentots and Zulu Kafirs are trained for intellectual vocations. For it is training, exactly as that of
the poodle, and not a scientific 'education.' The same trouble and care, applied to intelligent races, would
fit each individual a thousand times better for the same achievements" (MK, page 639-640). As you can see, Hitler didn't believe that educating the less intelligent members of a race was the key (he thought that would be pointless), he believed that lessening their numbers/ eradicating them was the best idea. People are attacking Jannine because their views are scarily similar.
To Bushy Beard:
You asked how our sons could be Black though they are biologically the sons of an Italian father. It is because society deems them so. When one looks upon them, they may not be able to discern all of their racial make up, but the Black influence is obvious. They are both beautiful human specimens, with coloring and features that could be best described as artful blendings of both ethnicities. They are both handsome, intelligent, and well spoken. They make us proud!
Donny_Baby_Cakes, you are a good woman.
Teach your boorish hubby.
I take it from your post that you are black too. I keep telling people that this would sound like a good idea to most intelligent blacks, but it just flies over people's heads... no matter, the world will carry on...
The concept is good, even if my "master plan" is impractical and ill-thought-out. Still, the idea of racial improvement through selective breeding is no new notion, and there is nothing wrong with choosing the best mate possible. So if this is carried out on even a small scale, with no government intervention, just people choosing mates wisely, it cannot yield anything but good results...
Hi Jannine,
I don't want to sound preachy but I really do want to help you understand why your question, then the explanation were so very offensive.
All people could benefit from a process of selecting their mates wisely. It would improve the entire human race. But, most people just aren't that careful. As I am sure you are aware, most often people simply select mates by sexual attraction and availability.
The biggest problem with your original question is that it states that Blacks are inferior. Your assertion over the value of eugenics didn't go over anyone's head. It just pissed people off. It made you come across like a maniacal racist, a 'Hitler'. You should not have been surprised at the reaction. You implied that Blacks are stupid and predisposed to committing crimes. Regardless of any statistic you can produce, that is simply not true. The lack of adequate education leaves people unprepared to deal with the demands of American society as it exists. Two things cause crime - a lack of resources or the lack of a sense of social responsibility (sometimes both together). I'm sure that some find it difficult to have a sense of responsibility to a society that obviously cares nothing for us. These issues have nothing to do with genetics.
Misinformation and circumstantial evidence have perpetuated the myth that Blacks are genetically inferior. The REAL SAD PHENOMENON is that many people have been brainwashed to accept it. From the way you stated your question, it appears that you have too.
If you had never put the word 'Black' in the question or explanation, you would have succeeded in the offering of a truly though provoking question.
Fair enough. Point taken and accepted.
You go BABY! * * *
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